Consistent Effort

[orange79]

Actually you are quite WRONG. I meant effort more in the sense of the result of an attempt. That was poor. The numb nuts here are arguing effort as in the physical exertion put forth. So yes we are arguing the wording which is silly, but that is nothing new for this board.

And I would say there were games where the team did not give 110%. But again that was NEVER the point I was making.

Many apologies. I left my mind-reading hat at home this morning.

 

[chakka3421]

Interesting comments. My take - HCDB is the first coach we have had since Coach P who had a well defined "system". Grob, DM & Shaf were non head coaches who utilized the first couple of years to "figure it out". The "Babers offense" is deeply rooted in the Baylor concepts developed under Briles, further developed and proven by Babers as a HC and Babers brings an established Tampa 2 defense that compliments his version of that offense.

I think we will see a big difference here versus the last 3 HCs. Babers system will take (and has proven even Briles has been quoted this) average 2* and 3* players to play like high 3* and 4* level players over other average teams with average coaching staffs. When we start bringing in more Devito type players on a more regular basis, we will see even greater performance. However, talent and depth will always be major factors holding us back from winning a conference title regardless of scheme or system until recruiting improves.

Regarding Shafer versus Babers, I too liked Shafer but I was very critical of him once he hired his "friends" over getting the best position coaches/recruiters in the business. I forgot who he hired as our OL coach (Adam?) but he had no coaching experience at that position. You may be able to do that in a non P5 conference but it's absolutely deadly in a P5 conference when you have to play elite teams. You get crunched like we did and it showed and that falls on Shafers shoulders and no one else.

Babers immediately earned my highest respect when he replaced our S&C coach with one that "fit" his system (no negative on the former guy either who shall remain nameless). That move alone should speak volumes to all of us regarding scheme & system. Nuff said.

 

[sufandu]

I would agree that he's off the mark in that effort on game day wasn't the problem...but there was a problem in being consistently competitive. Even in that first bowl season, we got absolutely pounded a few times. Big difference from the Marrone era where we were usually in most of the games, and even when we were greatly overmatched we usually kept the score somewhat respectable and didn't embarrass ourselves.

With Babers offense and our returning talent at the skill positions, I think we'll at least have a good enough offense to be competitive.

That's all accurate, but the OP specifically questioned effort which was never a problem.

 

[Ozcuse]

The Shafer years had a lot of working harder but not smarter.

 

[sufandu]

Lol. You all are missing the point. We were not competitive. You are arguing semantics. We need to be in games from start to finish, week in and week out. That did not happen the last 3 years. THAT IS A FACT. Which was my point. I don't give a F what the reason or correct wording should be. What I do care about is that watching SU football will no longer be torture.

I think what you're missing is the definition of semantics. People aren't arguing semantics. They're discussing different ingredients required for success. You specifically stated effort in your OP. If I say a guy is a bad offensive lineman because he's 5'10" and 165 lbs and another guy says no it's technique, those aren't semantics, they're two completely different things. Saying we were flawed in scheme, game planning, or gameday coaching are all legitimate. Questioning effort is not. The reason questioning effort rubs people the wrong way is because it goes hand and hand with character. Our guys played with great effort and character under Shafer even if it was in a flawed system with poor game planning and poor gameday coaching that led to too little success.

 

[Ish88888]

I think that is what I want to see most from this team. It wasn't there at all with Shafer, unless you count being consistently bad. In the last 3 years we have fallen behind by three scores sixteen times!!! That is nearly 50% of the games. It would be nice to see SU be competitive every game and not just a handful.

Comical post. Shaf and company lacked game experience and strategic game planning but the last thing you can say about them is that they lacked effort. It was grit and effort that allowed us to be competitive against some quality teams with less talent. Those kids would have ran through a brick wall for those coaches.

I think that is what I want to see most from this team. It wasn't there at all with Shafer, unless you count being consistently bad. In the last 3 years we have fallen behind by three scores sixteen times!!! That is nearly 50% of the games. It would be nice to see SU be competitive every game and not just a handful.

I think that is what I want to see most from this team. It wasn't there at all with Shafer, unless you count being consistently bad. In the last 3 years we have fallen behind by three scores sixteen times!!! That is nearly 50% of the games. It would be nice to see SU be competitive every game and not just a handful.

 

[CuseOnly]

Those words were never said. :crazy:

Your post reads like this exactly and yeah those exact words were written in your post.

Consistent effort. I think that is what I want to see most from this team. It wasn't there at all with Shafer, unless you count being consistently bad.

 

[Scooch]

I liked Shafer a lot. Rooted like hell for him to succeed.

I'm very, very glad Dino Babers is our head coach.

These thoughts are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Cusefan69]

I liked Shafer a lot. Rooted like hell for him to succeed.

I'm very, very glad Dino Babers is our head coach.

These thoughts are not mutually exclusive.

^^^^ Well said Scooch...

 

[JrodCuse]

For the most part we were a very bad football team under Shafer. Yes, we were competitive in some games, but overall the games were bad. The OP's stat is eye opening (lost by 3+ scores in 16 games). Shafer was a good guy but he made some serious mistakes when it came to his assistant and positional coaching positions, which ultimately lost him his job.

Now we have a legitimate, proven head coach with a track record and an exciting system. Things are definitely bright! We will probably still have a clunker here or there while all the systems get learned and the talent base slowly gets improved.

The one thing I highly doubt we'll have an issue with is effort. I think too many people are getting worked up over nothing. Players give good effort. They always do, it's part of their competitive nature. You can't make it to the top teir of sports without effort. The players always tried hard under Shafer. The players will always try hard under Babers, but Babers has the right coaching schemes and positional/assistant coaches to succeed. So overall the winner is Syracuse football and us, the fans.

 

[supp]

For the most part we were a very bad football team under Shafer. Yes, we were competitive in some games, but overall the games were bad. The OP's stat is eye opening (lost by 3+ scores in 16 games). Shafer was a good guy but he made some serious mistakes when it came to his assistant and positional coaching positions, which ultimately lost him his job.

Now we have a legitimate, proven head coach with a track record and an exciting system. Things are definitely bright! We will probably still have a clunker here or there while all the systems get learned and the talent base slowly gets improved.

The one thing I highly doubt we'll have an issue with is effort. I think too many people are getting worked up over nothing. Players give good effort. They always do, it's part of their competitive nature. You can't make it to the top teir of sports without effort. The players always tried hard under Shafer. The players will always try hard under Babers, but Babers has the right coaching schemes and positional/assistant coaches to succeed. So overall the winner is Syracuse football and us, the fans.

Good point about effort. The players gave their all for GRob too. Only time I ever felt that we had guys give up en masse were in some of those epic blowouts from the later P era.

 

[Ish88888]

Good point about effort. The players gave their all for GRob too. Only time I ever felt that we had guys give up en masse were in some of those epic blowouts from the later P era.

Hard to compare shafers teams and grobs teams. Although the results were similar shaf had to navigate through the acc and grob the big east. Also, shafs teams were conditioned far better than grobs. Word around the campfire was grob didnt even impose an off season conditioning peogram on players and hold them accountable with fitness testing when returning after summer break.

 

[SoBristol]

...

Now we have a legitimate, proven head coach with a track record and an exciting system. Things are definitely bright! We will probably still have a clunker here or there while all the systems get learned and the talent base slowly gets improved.

..... The players will always try hard under Babers, but Babers has the right coaching schemes and positional/assistant coaches to succeed. So overall the winner is Syracuse football and us, the fans.

A significant problem for Shafer was injuries at QB(Hunt) , and lack of any back-up QB who had played at this level. The issue was talent, and recruiting, at the most important position in college football. Not to say it wasn't also offensive schemes, but the main issue was not having a capable, healthy QB who had a chance to learn the schemes.

When people talk about Babers' schemes, and assistant coaches, they usually mean the offensive side, where the principal coaches have been together for four years. His defensive coaches weren't geniuses in 2014, when BGSU had a young defense. He had to bring in a new DC in Brian Ward in 2015 to replace his long time assistant Kim McCloud. His DL coach is new this season. His DB coach has only two years of overlap with Babers. There isn't a lot of P5 experience among the D-side coaches. Are they real good with their defensive schemes -- maybe, but how would anyone know?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

A significant problem for Shafer was injuries at QB(Hunt) , and lack of any back-up QB who had played at this level. The issue was talent, and recruiting, at the most important position in college football. Not to say it wasn't also offensive schemes, but the main issue was not having a capable, healthy QB who had a chance to learn the schemes.

When people talk about Babers' schemes, and assistant coaches, they usually mean the offensive side, where the principal coaches have been together for four years. His defensive coaches weren't geniuses in 2014, when BGSU had a young defense. He had to bring in a new DC in Brian Ward in 2015 to replace his long time assistant Kim McCloud. His DL coach is new this season. His DB coach has only two years of overlap with Babers. There isn't a lot of P5 experience among the D-side coaches. Are they real good with their defensive schemes -- maybe, but how would anyone know?

Hunt wasn't very good when he was healthy. The always-hurt-QBs thing is just an excuse, in my opinion.

We kept hearing before last season how easy to learn Lester's scheme was. And yet, it still produced middling results. How come other QBs couldn't pick it up?

And as for the defense, Ward's had success in the past at Bowling Green and Western Illinois. P5 experience isn't an indicator of P5 success- good teachers can teach at any level.

 

[supp]

Hunt wasn't very good when he was healthy. The always-hurt-QBs thing is just an excuse, in my opinion.

We kept hearing before last season how easy to learn Lester's scheme was. And yet, it still produced middling results. How come other QBs couldn't pick it up?

And as for the defense, Ward's had success in the past at Bowling Green and Western Illinois. P5 experience isn't an indicator of P5 success- good teachers can teach at any level.

And Babers' offense will have an effect on his defenses. Given the emphasis on tempo and more possessions, I doubt if we'll ever see a top 40 defense under him. It's a trade-off I'm willing to accept as long as we're scoring tons of points.

 

[CousCuse]

If Hunt had stayed healthy , the 14 and 15 teams would have won many more games and been competitive in even more and probably made a bowl in both years .

 

[SoBristol]

Hunt wasn't very good when he was healthy. The always-hurt-QBs thing is just an excuse, in my opinion.

We kept hearing before last season how easy to learn Lester's scheme was. And yet, it still produced middling results. How come other QBs couldn't pick it up?

And as for the defense, Ward's had success in the past at Bowling Green and Western Illinois. P5 experience isn't an indicator of P5 success- good teachers can teach at any level.

Ward looks good on paper -- no better than his SU predecessors, and less seasoned. My point is that many posters here don't know a lot about the schemes or experience of Ward, Kaufman, Reynolds & Monroe -- and how could they, this group does not go back many seasons.

The loss of Hunt, and playing Kimble, Wilson, Long (true frosh), Dungey (true frosh) & Mahoney might be an excuse -- but it is a powerful excuse. Most important position on the field. Dungey will be very good, but he did not have a Spring practice before he was thrown in. The others would not be playing for our ACC rivals.

You didn't see Mahoney playing well against top 10 teams? You did not see how well Dungey played when healthy? Lester had something to do with that.

 

[TheCusian]

If Hunt had stayed healthy , the 14 and 15 teams would have won many more games and been competitive in even more and probably made a bowl in both years .

The '14 team was torpedoed by McDonald and Hunt was not playing very well.

Hunt would have been replaced by Dungey eventually in '15. I loved Hunt's story and heart, but the moment Dungey stepped on campus he was the best option.

The problem last year was getting a stop on D. Both the Virginia and PITT games were lost by not getting a critical stop in the 4th Q.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

You didn't see Mahoney playing well against top 10 teams? You did not see how well Dungey played when healthy? Lester had something to do with that.

I saw Mahoney playing against Top 10 teams. I wouldn't describe 16 for 38 for 154 yards and 8 for 21 for 80 yards as playing "well."

I have very high hopes for Dungey in any offense.

To Lester's credit, he kept tweaking his offense to work with what he had. But nothing the offense did exactly set the world on fire- 320 yards a game isn't going to get it done in modern college football.

 

[upperdeck]

The '14 team was torpedoed by McDonald and Hunt was not playing very well.

Hunt would have been replaced by Dungey eventually in '15. I loved Hunt's story and heart, but the moment Dungey stepped on campus he was the best option.

The problem last year was getting a stop on D. Both the Virginia and PITT games were lost by not getting a critical stop in the 4th Q.

even USF was undone by a late hit.

 

[bnoro]

 

[CousCuse]

The '14 team was torpedoed by McDonald and Hunt was not playing very well.

Hunt would have been replaced by Dungey eventually in '15. I loved Hunt's story and heart, but the moment Dungey stepped on campus he was the best option.

The problem last year was getting a stop on D. Both the Virginia and PITT games were lost by not getting a critical stop in the 4th Q.

Dungey would have played a bit last year , maybe or maybe he is allowed to redshirt. He would mot have to take it on his shoulders and be roughed up by some dirty players taking cheap shots at a true freshman . Many guys on D last year were underclassmen or true freshman , of course the D wasn't going to be that strong .