Could Lawrence Moten’s Big East scoring record be in jeopardy next season? | Syracusefan.com

Could Lawrence Moten’s Big East scoring record be in jeopardy next season?

MSOrange

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I thought this record would hold forever with guys going pro, but guess records are made to be broken. Still kind of a bummer
 

sutomcat

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I thought this record would hold forever with guys going pro, but guess records are made to be broken. Still kind of a bummer
The league Howard plays in is not the Big East. It might be called the Big East but simply buying the name for the new conference that was formed after the core of the real league left doesn't make it the original conference.

Howard has never played in the best league in college basketball. This new conference, let's be real and call it the Medium Great Lakes Conference, is a good conference with one really good program.

It isn't even one of the top 5 conference in the country. It isn't ever going to put 3 teams in the Final Four, have 8 teams ranked in the top 25 at the same time, put 11 teams into the NCAA tournament. That isn't going to happen. They are never going to be great, or even really good.

They shouldn't try and pretend the history and records of the old Big East are theirs. They should be honest and up front; this is nowhere close to the same landscape that the players who played in the real Big East faced.

So good for Howard. He might become the best scorer in the history of the Medium Great Lakes Conference. Maybe he already has. Nobody knows. Nobody cares. There is a reason the TV ratings for the MGLC are where they are. I wish them success in the future and am glad Nova finally found a way to become a power in the basketball conference.

Just stop trying to pretend your conference is something it isn't and never will be.
 

MSOrange

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The league Howard plays in is not the Big East. It might be called the Big East but simply buying the name for the new conference that was formed after the core of the real league left doesn't make it the original conference.

Howard has never played in the best league in college basketball. This new conference, let's be real and call it the Medium Great Lakes Conference, is a good conference with one really good program.

It isn't even one of the top 5 conference in the country. It isn't ever going to put 3 teams in the Final Four, have 8 teams ranked in the top 25 at the same time, put 11 teams into the NCAA tournament. That isn't going to happen. They are never going to be great, or even really good.

They shouldn't try and pretend the history and records of the old Big East are theirs. They should be honest and up front; this is nowhere close to the same landscape that the players who played in the real Big East faced.

So good for Howard. He might become the best scorer in the history of the Medium Great Lakes Conference. Maybe he already has. Nobody knows. Nobody cares. There is a reason the TV ratings for the MGLC are where they are. I wish them success in the future and am glad Nova finally found a way to become a power in the basketball conference.

Just stop trying to pretend your conference is something it isn't and never will be.

I agree totally. Just a bummer that Lawrence's name won't officially be on top under those circumstances. But it's the same as those wins that JB "doesn't have" according to the records.
 

kirbivore

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The league Howard plays in is not the Big East. It might be called the Big East but simply buying the name for the new conference that was formed after the core of the real league left doesn't make it the original conference.

Howard has never played in the best league in college basketball. This new conference, let's be real and call it the Medium Great Lakes Conference, is a good conference with one really good program.

It isn't even one of the top 5 conference in the country. It isn't ever going to put 3 teams in the Final Four, have 8 teams ranked in the top 25 at the same time, put 11 teams into the NCAA tournament. That isn't going to happen. They are never going to be great, or even really good.

They shouldn't try and pretend the history and records of the old Big East are theirs. They should be honest and up front; this is nowhere close to the same landscape that the players who played in the real Big East faced.

So good for Howard. He might become the best scorer in the history of the Medium Great Lakes Conference. Maybe he already has. Nobody knows. Nobody cares. There is a reason the TV ratings for the MGLC are where they are. I wish them success in the future and am glad Nova finally found a way to become a power in the basketball conference.

Just stop trying to pretend your conference is something it isn't and never will be.

Too bad MSG didn't get the memo and re-upped with these fools through 2028.

 

GooseMutt

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Girard is gonna own the ACC record because he will likely be here 4 years
 

Eric15

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The league Howard plays in is not the Big East. It might be called the Big East but simply buying the name for the new conference that was formed after the core of the real league left doesn't make it the original conference.

Howard has never played in the best league in college basketball. This new conference, let's be real and call it the Medium Great Lakes Conference, is a good conference with one really good program.

It isn't even one of the top 5 conference in the country. It isn't ever going to put 3 teams in the Final Four, have 8 teams ranked in the top 25 at the same time, put 11 teams into the NCAA tournament. That isn't going to happen. They are never going to be great, or even really good.

They shouldn't try and pretend the history and records of the old Big East are theirs. They should be honest and up front; this is nowhere close to the same landscape that the players who played in the real Big East faced.

So good for Howard. He might become the best scorer in the history of the Medium Great Lakes Conference. Maybe he already has. Nobody knows. Nobody cares. There is a reason the TV ratings for the MGLC are where they are. I wish them success in the future and am glad Nova finally found a way to become a power in the basketball conference.

Just stop trying to pretend your conference is something it isn't and never will be.

Respectfully disagree with you, Tom. I think the new Big East is still a conference that absolutely still deserves respect. Since we left, below is their conference ranking each season. They are easily a Top 5 conference and consistently better than the Pac-12 and SEC.

2018-19: 5th
2017-18: 2nd
2016-17: 3rd
2015-16: 4th
2014-15: 3rd
2013-14: 4th

No Big East team during Moten's 4 year stretch made the Final Four. His junior year, only one team (Seton Hall) even finished in the Top 25. That was arguably the weakest stretch in Big East history.

I'm trying to imagine the reaction of Syracuse football fans if a BC/VT/Miami fan said after they left in 2003 "any records broken by SU, Pitt, WVU, etc. are deemed unworthy now because we are gone." We would have lost our collective minds.
 
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sutomcat

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Respectfully disagree with you, Tom. I think the new Big East is still a conference that absolutely still deserves respect. Since we left, below is their conference ranking each season. They are easily a Top 5 conference and consistently better than the Pac-12 and SEC.

2018-19: 5th
2017-18: 2nd
2016-17: 3rd
2015-16: 4th
2014-15: 3rd
2013-14: 4th

No Big East team during Moten's 4 year stretch made the Final Four. His junior year, only one team (Seton Hall) even finished in the Top 25.

I'm trying to imagine the reaction of Syracuse football fans if a BC/VT/Miami fan said after they left in 2003 "any records broken by SU, Pitt, WVU, etc. are deemed unworthy now because we are gone." We would have lost our collective minds.
It is not a great league. It is nowhere near as good as the real Big East was. Yes, maybe some years there is a P5 conference that has an awful year and the MGLC is better. Maybe.

But it has never been even in consideration for the best league in the country for even one year and it never will. Though I can't think of any programs in the MGLC that have done anything noteworthy other than Nova. Let me know when they have accomplishments close to those of the the real Big East. They aren't remotely close. I am said it was a good conference and it is. But it is not remotely close to great and it never will be.

It doesn't deserve the name Big East.
 

Eric15

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It is not a great league. It is nowhere near as good as the real Big East was. Yes, maybe some years there is a P5 conference that has an awful year and the MGLC is better. Maybe.

But it has never been even in consideration for the best league in the country for even one year and it never will. Though I can't think of any programs in the MGLC that have done anything noteworthy other than Nova. Let me know when they have accomplishments close to those of the the real Big East. They aren't remotely close. I am said it was a good conference and it is. But it is not remotely close to great and it never will be.

It doesn't deserve the name Big East.

It has been a Top 3 league in the country three of the past six years. That has to count for "in consideration for the best league." Xavier has had some elite 30-win seasons the past few years. Butler and Marquette have often been Top 25 level.

I agree that this new Big East isn't nearly as strong as the old Big East in it's heyday (mid-80s, 1996ish, 2009ish, etc.). But, the new Big East is very comparable in strength to the Big East of 1991-1995 when Moten played. So if that's the case, and Moten's record was achieved during this underwhelming time in Big East history, then why shouldn't the Marquette player's record hold the same weight?
 

HOFCeluck

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The funny thing is that when I read the OP I was totally going to say that the record would need an asterisk but FFS now I’m strongly compelled to defend the new Big East.
 

jgeorge322

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The league Howard plays in is not the Big East. It might be called the Big East but simply buying the name for the new conference that was formed after the core of the real league left doesn't make it the original conference.

Howard has never played in the best league in college basketball. This new conference, let's be real and call it the Medium Great Lakes Conference, is a good conference with one really good program.

It isn't even one of the top 5 conference in the country. It isn't ever going to put 3 teams in the Final Four, have 8 teams ranked in the top 25 at the same time, put 11 teams into the NCAA tournament. That isn't going to happen. They are never going to be great, or even really good.

They shouldn't try and pretend the history and records of the old Big East are theirs. They should be honest and up front; this is nowhere close to the same landscape that the players who played in the real Big East faced.

So good for Howard. He might become the best scorer in the history of the Medium Great Lakes Conference. Maybe he already has. Nobody knows. Nobody cares. There is a reason the TV ratings for the MGLC are where they are. I wish them success in the future and am glad Nova finally found a way to become a power in the basketball conference.

Just stop trying to pretend your conference is something it isn't and never will be.

Game over.
 

HOFCeluck

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Game over.

Meh. The current Big East is definitely a top five league, the Big East put three teams in the final four precisely once thirty five years ago, and the conference Moten played in was not the conference of the eighties or late aughts. Like not even close.

Tom is just Big Mad for some reason.
 

jgeorge322

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Meh. The current Big East is definitely a top five league, the Big East put three teams in the final four precisely once thirty five years ago, and the conference Moten played in was not the conference of the eighties or late aughts. Like not even close.

Tom is just Big Mad for some reason.

you cant overlook the fact that the members are so drastically different. that factor is dispositive as to the issue.
 

Eric15

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you cant overlook the fact that the members are so drastically different. that factor is dispositive as to the issue.

Five of the nine original Big East members are still in the conference. It actually looks more like the original profile of the conference now (i.e. small, often-Catholic private schools that play a true round-robin schedule) than it did when it added the mish-mash of Rutgers, WVU, Va Tech, Louisville, South Florida, etc.
 

jgeorge322

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Five of the nine original Big East members are still in the conference. It actually looks more like the original profile of the conference now (i.e. small, often-Catholic private schools that play a true round-robin schedule) than it did when it added the mish-mash of Rutgers, WVU, Va Tech, Louisville, South Florida, etc.

something about Wisconsin does not scream big east to me. maybe im in the minority, but I don't see the same conference.

if duke and unc left the acc, I would hardly consider it the acc.
 

OrangeDW

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Respectfully disagree with you, Tom. I think the new Big East is still a conference that absolutely still deserves respect. Since we left, below is their conference ranking each season. They are easily a Top 5 conference and consistently better than the Pac-12 and SEC.

2018-19: 5th
2017-18: 2nd
2016-17: 3rd
2015-16: 4th
2014-15: 3rd
2013-14: 4th

No Big East team during Moten's 4 year stretch made the Final Four. His junior year, only one team (Seton Hall) even finished in the Top 25. That was arguably the weakest stretch in Big East history.

I'm trying to imagine the reaction of Syracuse football fans if a BC/VT/Miami fan said after they left in 2003 "any records broken by SU, Pitt, WVU, etc. are deemed unworthy now because we are gone." We would have lost our collective minds.

No final fours true. Connecticut choked in the tournament in both 94 and 95. And yes I just went out of my way to point that out because...screw them.

It really is a completely different league though. I agree with you that it’s a pretty strong basketball league. It’s just a much different league. It should have its own name and own records. It’s not the Big East anymore and pretending it is, is lame. Kill the name and move on, IMO.

Moten faced shorter schedules, fewer games, the brutally physical 6 fouls era. That BE was still strong, even without final four teams. We thumped Arizona and Kentucky non-league.
 

longtimefan

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Five of the nine original Big East members are still in the conference. It actually looks more like the original profile of the conference now (i.e. small, often-Catholic private schools that play a true round-robin schedule) than it did when it added the mish-mash of Rutgers, WVU, Va Tech, Louisville, South Florida, etc.
There were only 7 schools in the original conference. Five of them were Catholic, with SU and UConn the exceptions. Four of the five remain, and 5 more Catholic schools have been added, Villanova quickly, and the mish-mash of Midwesterns much later (Marquette and DePaul) and much, much later (Creighton and Xavier). Butler is now the real exception.
 

OrangeDW

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Plays in an era where he’s free to jack 10 3’s a game and turn it over 4 times a game? Eh.
 

UnknownOrange

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It's like this kid scoring points is a personal attack to some of you.

Do you discount Bill Russell's championships? The Yankees, or anyone's, titles until 1958?

The league is the league. The records are the records. What's the big deal?
 

HOFCeluck

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It's like this kid scoring points is a personal attack to some of you.

Do you discount Bill Russell's championships? The Yankees, or anyone's, titles until 1958?

The league is the league. The records are the records. What's the big deal?

I think only one person is genuinely insulted. But while it’s a good league, it’s not the same.
 

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