David Rubin critical of stadium building as a form economic development

[Orangeyes]

http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/02/syracuse_state_aid_for_business.html

 

[MadNY3]

http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/02/syracuse_state_aid_for_business.html

Shocking to see an academic with no business sense be on the same page with an equally inexperienced Mayor on a subject with greater business implications than he was able to address.

As someone with very minimal insight into the project, the one thing I do know: the usage for that facility would be infinitely more than the current Carrier Dome or those 25 events Dr. Rubin thinks is the pinnacle.

 

[Orangeyes]

Shocking to see an academic with no business sense be on the same page with an equally inexperienced Mayor on a subject with greater business implications than he was able to address.

As someone with very minimal insight into the project, the one thing I do know: the usage for that facility would be infinitely more than the current Carrier Dome or those 25 events Dr. Rubin thinks is the pinnacle.

The other day I heard Dome management say that the Dome is utilized a lot more than I had realized. Can't remember the exact figure, can someone help me out here?

 

[MadNY3]

The other day I heard Dome management say that the Dome is utilized a lot more than I had realized. Can't remember the exact figure, can someone help me out here?

It took awhile post tax agreement to be settled, but it has gotten more...and there have been "friends" in Los Angeles consulting with the SU powers that be on how to maximize venue usage for about 24-30 months.

 

[supp]

Shocking to see an academic with no business sense be on the same page with an equally inexperienced Mayor on a subject with greater business implications than he was able to address.

As someone with very minimal insight into the project, the one thing I do know: the usage for that facility would be infinitely more than the current Carrier Dome or those 25 events Dr. Rubin thinks is the pinnacle.

He's right, though. If there's all this "free" money being handed out, where's the vision of the local officials? And I include Miner and the SU chancellor here too. The best the county exec can come up with is a new stadium for $200 million in state bonds?

 

[GoSU96]

The other day I heard Dome management say that the Dome is utilized a lot more than I had realized. Can't remember the exact figure, can someone help me out here?

Pete Sala said on game day that 300 events took place in the dome last year.

 

[Orangeyes]

Pete Sala said on game day that 300 events took place in the dome last year.

Thanks I thought the figure was in the 300's

 

[MadNY3]

Thanks I thought the figure was in the 300's

The monetization of those events is one of the issues that has not changed enough.

 

[CuseOnly]

The article below shows that the dome hosted 554 events from 2005 -20011 and only 6 were not University related.

http://www.thenewshouse.com/movie/despite-large-capacity-carrier-dome’s-first-priority-su

I thought I read an article on Syracuse.com that stated the actual # of events was far higher that the average of 100 per year as the article above shows.

EDIT: I do recall an article where Pete Sala stated the number was upwards of 300 per year but I can't find the article. I don't believe that all were "game day" type events.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Are practices included in the Dome events, or are all the HS games played counted as separate events?

 

[GoSU96]

Shocking to see an academic with no business sense be on the same page with an equally inexperienced Mayor on a subject with greater business implications than he was able to address.

As someone with very minimal insight into the project, the one thing I do know: the usage for that facility would be infinitely more than the current Carrier Dome or those 25 events Dr. Rubin thinks is the pinnacle.

White elephant? He is making an awful lot of assumptions about the nature and use of the facility.

Are these the friends in LA?

About AEG
AEG is one of the leading sports and entertainment presenters in the world. AEG, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Anschutz Company, owns, controls or is affiliated with a collection of companies including over 100 of the world's preeminent facilities such as STAPLES Center (Los Angeles, CA), Sprint Center (Kansas City, MO), Citizen's Business Bank Arena (Ontario, CA), O.co Coliseum (Oakland, CA), Oracle Arena (Oakland, CA), Valley View Casino Center (San Diego, CA), American Airlines Arena (Miami), Best Buy Theater (Times Square, NY), Verizon Theatre (Grand Prairie, TX), Colosseum at Caesars Palace (Las Vegas, NV), Target Center (Minneapolis, MN), BBVA Compass Stadium (Houston, TX), Allphones Arena (Sydney, AU), MasterCard Center (Beijing, China), Ahoy Arena (Rotterdam), Ericsson Globe Arenas (Stockholm), Qatar National Convention Centre (Doha), O2 World Hamburg, O2 World (Berlin) and The O2, a 28-acre development located in the eastern part of London along the Thames River which includes a 20,000-seat arena and over 650,000sf of leisure and entertainment use which are all part of the portfolio of AEG Facilities; AEG Merchandising, a full service merchandising company; and AEG Global Partnerships, responsible for worldwide sales and servicing of sponsorships naming rights and other strategic partnerships.

In addition, AEG developed and operates StubHub Center, a $150 million national training center located on the campus of California State University, Dominguez Hills in Carson, CA which is an Official U.S. Olympic Training Site and features elite facilities for soccer, tennis, track & field, track cycling, boxing, lacrosse, rugby, football and other sports, as well as concerts and family shows, and is home to back to back MLS Champion LA Galaxy and Chivas USA MLS franchises. The company is also spearheading the development of Farmers Field, a 72,000-seat stadium and Event Center in downtown Los Angeles designed to host an NFL franchise, conventions and special events as well as a sports and entertainment arena in Las Vegas in partnership with MGM Resorts Intl.

Teams including the 2012 Stanley Cup Champion LA Kings (NHL), Manchester Monarchs (AHL), Ontario Reign (ECHL), Houston Dynamo & MLS Champion LA Galaxy (MLS), three hockey franchises in Europe as well as the Hammarby (Sweden) Futbol Club, management of privately held shares of the Los Angeles Lakers, events such as the Amgen Tour of California cycling race and a schedule of soccer exhibitions in the United States featuring the most popular international teams are part of AEG Sports.

AEG Live, the live-entertainment division of Los Angeles-based AEG, is dedicated to all aspects of live contemporary music performance. AEG Live is comprised of touring, festival, exhibition, broadcast, merchandise and special event divisions, fifteen regional offices and owns, operates or exclusively books thirty five state-of-the-art venues. The current and recent concert tour roster includes artists such as Taylor Swift, The Black Eyed Peas, Bon Jovi, Usher, Carrie Underwood, Daughtry, Justin Bieber, Leonard Cohen, Wisin & Yandel, Kenny Chesney, P!nk and Paul McCartney. The company is also currently producing productions including Shania Twain at The Colosseum at Caesars Palace, Supernatural Santana: A Trip Through the Hits at The Joint at Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas. The division's exhibition portfolio boasts the most successful exhibition of all time, Tutankhamun and the Golden Age of the Pharaohs, which has attracted more than seven million visitors since 2005. AEG Live is also the largest producer of music festivals in North America from the critically acclaimed Coachella Music & Arts Festival to Stagecoach and New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival.

AEG directed the overall creation and development of L.A. LIVE, the 4 million square foot / $2.5 billion downtown Los Angeles sports, residential & entertainment district featuring venues such as Nokia Theatre L.A. LIVE, Club Nokia and The Conga Room; the GRAMMY Museum, saluting the history of music and the genre's best know awards show; a 54-story, 1001-room convention "headquarters" destination (featuring The Ritz-Carlton and JW Marriott hotels and 224 luxury condominiums - The Residences at The Ritz-Carlton L.A. LIVE - all in a single tower), Regal Cinemas L.A. LIVE Stadium 14 movie theatre, "broadcast" facilities for ESPN, along with entertainment, restaurant and office space making it the region's most active 'live content and event campus.'

In 2012, AEG Facilities launched its Turf Pro sports turf management program designed to provide and maintain company managed stadiums and teams with the highest quality playing surface. An annual Turf Pro Conference will be launched in 2013 for venue operators from around the globe to convene and discuss techniques and technologies to advance the management of professional sports playing surfaces.

In 2010, AEG launched its AEG 1EARTH environmental program with the announcement of 2020 environmental goals and the release of the industry's first sustainability report while in 2011, AEG introduced axs Ticketing, the first phase of its new entertainment platform serving as the company's primary consumer brand which will also feature a mobile service as well as a video content service now in development. In summer 2012, in partnership with HDNet, Ryan Seacrest Productions and Creative Artists Agency, AEG launched AXS TV, a new linear cable channel focusing on live entertainment and lifestyle programming available in nearly 40 million homes.

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If they would be the owner operator of the new facility they could tie into an association with the Falk school and Newhouse and you could instantly create a tremendous synergy there.

 

[Townie72]

Nothing worse than Federal, State or Local Government with some tax money burning a hole in their pockets looking to buy political support by spending a lot of money on a construction project.

While construction projects are probably the best way to infuse money into an area, they first have to come up with something to build that will actually be used.

In Syracuse that appears to be a sports/entertainment facility. But to make that attractive, they have to get SU to abandon their current facilities and sign on to lease the new Government one.

This isn't about a facility. The facility is what they need to spend the money. Your money.

 

[Jake]

Go. I think AEG fits the profile of the private backer...if its not them.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

He's right, though. If there's all this "free" money being handed out, where's the vision of the local officials? And I include Miner and the SU chancellor here too. The best the county exec can come up with is a new stadium for $200 million in state bonds?

No, the $200M was for a stadium. It wasn't here is $200M, what are you going to do with it.

 

[All4SU]

He's right, though. If there's all this "free" money being handed out, where's the vision of the local officials? And I include Miner and the SU chancellor here too. The best the county exec can come up with is a new stadium for $200 million in state bonds?

Can't really disagree with that. I will say, however, that IMHO Syracuse, the City, is very much like Syracuse the football team circa 2007. We need a change in the culture here, a new mindset. We need someone (or some set of individuals) who are willing to tear things down, and start again. This community has been bogged down in the same defeatist thinking for SO long, we wouldn't recognize opportunity if it kicked us in our collective fiscal nuts. Every idea, every plan, every project is criticized and evaluated undividually, without regard to a larger picture. If this City/County doesn't find our political/economic HCDM, pretty soon we will be nothing but a University surrounded by dollar stores and corner bars.

 

[GoSU96]

Nothing worse than Federal, State or Local Government with some tax money burning a hole in their pockets looking to buy political support by spending a lot of money on a construction project.

While construction projects are probably the best way to infuse money into an area, they first have to come up with something to build that will actually be used.

In Syracuse that appears to be a sports/entertainment facility. But to make that attractive, they have to get SU to abandon their current facilities and sign on to lease the new Government one.

This isn't about a facility. The facility is what they need to spend the money. Your money.

You knucklehead, the University the one trying to get this to happen, not the other way around. They don't have to twist SU's arm to have them "abandon" the dome. You think the county approached the University and said "hey we want to build a stadium downtown for no good reason and in order to make a go of it we need you to leave the dome".

You really think that is how this thing got started?

 

[GoSU96]

Go. I think AEG fits the profile of the private backer...if its not them.

They aren't in the upstate NY market. They build a single multi-use heavily configurable facility and they can open up a new market for their content.

 

[Jake]

You knucklehead, the University the one trying to get this to happen, not the other way around. They don't have to twist SU's arm to have them "abandon" the dome. You think the county approached the University and said "hey we want to build a stadium downtown for no good reason and in order to make a go of it we need you to leave the dome".

You really think that is how this thing got started?

The University WAS one of the instigators. New chancellor = new direction/philosophy.

 

[GoSU96]

The University WAS one of the instigators. New chancellor = new direction/philosophy.

I understand that. If SU is no longer interested, a new stadium isn't happening.

 

[Crusty]

God save CNY from its Mill Town Mentality.

 

[Stern]

Can't really disagree with that. I will say, however, that IMHO Syracuse, the City, is very much like Syracuse the football team circa 2007. We need a change in the culture here, a new mindset. We need someone (or some set of individuals) who are willing to tear things down, and start again. This community has been bogged down in the same defeatist thinking for SO long, we wouldn't recognize opportunity if it kicked us in our collective fiscal nuts. Every idea, every plan, every project is criticized and evaluated undividually, without regard to a larger picture. If this City/County doesn't find our political/economic HCDM, pretty soon we will be nothing but a University surrounded by dollar stores and corner bars.

Look at the Candidates who run for Mayor every 4 years. Not exactly a "who's-who" of bright minds and forward thinking. You got one party that can't even find a candidate half the time. Then the other party that has Minor fighting with a former factory worker who has been brought up on numerous charges in the work-place.

 

[Millhouse]

Shocking to see an academic with no business sense be on the same page with an equally inexperienced Mayor on a subject with greater business implications than he was able to address.

As someone with very minimal insight into the project, the one thing I do know: the usage for that facility would be infinitely more than the current Carrier Dome or those 25 events Dr. Rubin thinks is the pinnacle.

Plenty of people with business sense thinks stadium economic development is always oversold because it's true

 

[OttoMets]

Plenty of people with business sense thinks stadium economic development is always oversold because it's true

Ya - a lot of folks are uncharacteristically willing to ignore the track record here. Rubin knows more about this subject than anyone posting in this thread.

Stadium development doesn't create economic activity, it just shifts it. This is one of the few instances in which this Keynesian thinks that the spending of public funds is no better than flushing money down the toilet.

 

[SaltineWar]

Plenty of people with business sense thinks stadium economic development is always oversold because it's true

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/

 

[cuseinchina]

Rubin is correct when he points out that Syracuse is getting the shaft relative to the type and scale of investment going into Buffalo and Albany. Albany has the advantage of being where the purse strings are held, and Buffalo is a larger city with greater capacity to benefit from a resurgence in American manufacturing that is slowing taking shape. People should be upset that Syracuse I taking it in the no 2.

That said, to presume that stadiums don't encourage related development and provide a solid ROI is to focus on the failures and ignoring the successes. Stadiums work when they are knitted into the fabric of a downtown with stuff to do - the stadium and the surrounding area feed off one another. They work when they are the only show in town as is the case with SU sports. They work when they can be monetized as venues for non-sporting events because there are limited alternative venues in the area. All of these things are true for Syracuse. It was true of Baltimore which is the city that got the stadium financing boom started. Compare that to what they did in Philly - they built 3 new stadiums right next to each other in an area that is filled with lower middle class blue collar housing and just about nothing else. yeah those didn't do much for development. Specifics matter when it comes to any investment. Generalizations are fodder for internet controversy and herding the sheep.