.
DC always in a hurry
- Thread starter 2-3zone
- Start date
orangenirvana
Hall of Fame
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 8,133
- Like
- 12,448
AO was so good.
I still want to hop into a time machine and tell Boeheim not to play AO against Georgetown in the BET back in 2010. "I'm from the future, Coach...just trust me!"
I still want to hop into a time machine and tell Boeheim not to play AO against Georgetown in the BET back in 2010. "I'm from the future, Coach...just trust me!"
orangefan13
Hall of Fame
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2011
- Messages
- 8,080
- Like
- 5,200
BostonOrange
2nd String
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2011
- Messages
- 722
- Like
- 478
IMO you hit the nail on the head. He somehow needs to learn how to slow down and use his awesome strength to create space. Guys like Tim Duncan, Sean May, and AO were all really good at that. Coleman reminds me a little of Big Baby Davis (though clearly Big Baby is on another level from Dajuan) - he is almost too quick and athletic for his own good - tries to slither and double clutch too much which leads him into trouble.
jordoo
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 15,381
- Like
- 33,665
This post is inspired. I saw an old Delorian on ebay. If I buy it I'd need help woth the flux-capacitor though, not sure I completely understand the science of that.
jordoo
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 15,381
- Like
- 33,665
He is fine using his strength to get position, he needs to use his skill to score after that. He is trying to use his strength to clear out when he has that ball and it just will not work at this level.
jordoo
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 15,381
- Like
- 33,665
When AO was healthy he had much livelier legs IMO! Very similar size and height though.
When he puts his head down it looks like he loses where the rim is. I'd like to see him go stronger to the hoop but not into the defender. Quick moves are good when used correctly. Spacing helps as well. It depends on who he is facing and if they ever double team him. The big guys don't get enough touches in Boeheims offense and the few times they have the ball they often get too excited and try to do too much too soon. I see glimpses of what Coleman could be if he continues to work on his WHOLE game offensively and a left hand would make him that much better. Defensively he's got strong hands and when he gets his mitts on a ball, he usually posses it.
As for the AO comparison, didn't he redshirt? Add to that he really didn't start to turn it on until later in his career here and at this stage Coleman is ahead of him. Great point about showing his moves to Coleman and to give him the knowledge that took AO a while to execute.
As for the AO comparison, didn't he redshirt? Add to that he really didn't start to turn it on until later in his career here and at this stage Coleman is ahead of him. Great point about showing his moves to Coleman and to give him the knowledge that took AO a while to execute.
BostonOrange
2nd String
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2011
- Messages
- 722
- Like
- 478
You can use strength to create space though. Use a subtle shoulder dip to create a little room and then use his soft touch. He uses the shoulder dip to try and go under\around guys too much. Just puts him into trouble.
This Sean May mix is largely unwatchable but go to the 1:20ish mark that is what I mean. Physically Dajuan and Sean May are pretty similar, and Dajuan actually has some of the same skills too.
reedny
Flame Resistant
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2011
- Messages
- 10,614
- Like
- 15,212
That's a good comparison -- I've thought of SM before in trying to predict what kind of player DC can be. Right now -- he needs to do two things: keep the ball higher and use his butt instead of his shoulder. It's frustrating to watch him get stripped -- but that's incentive for him to figure out how to use his body.
jordoo
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 15,381
- Like
- 33,665
No doubt. You can use strength to create space so long as you aren't lunging which is usually a foul and throws off your touch. Ricky And AO were both great at shooting over tehir oposite shoulder, thus using their full width to keep spacing. May has a wide variety of moves and releases to go with great footwork.
OrangeDW
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2012
- Messages
- 65,343
- Like
- 200,277
AO was arguably the best offensive option on the team as a sophomore(which was his 3rd year here because of the injury redshirt). He didn't play much as a freshman, but when he did he looked better offensively than Coleman has so far. I remember AO having good moments against good teams like Louisville, Cincinatti, and Texas Tech his freshman year, where he looked like he'd be a real force in the future.
Ghost
Gentleman of the Night
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 25,726
- Like
- 42,529
Yeah, he does seem to lose track of the rim - he kind of goes up like a spazzy high school kid who just wants to get the foul call by flailing his arms about. Probably works well against over-matched people inside - not going to work against any solid post defender.
I agree with a lot of what you said but still, that extra year does help. AO played stronger with the ball higher and could finish better, you could see that and imo Coleman has got into some bad habits and makes smaller defenders bigger than they are. I honestly don't remember all of AO's games as a fresh/soph.
I always disliked the flailing arm syndrome...hate it. It's a way to look for a refs help instead of finishing the job yourself, that mentality is not what I want from a big man.
sufandu
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 16,019
- Like
- 25,916
I was actually frustrated AO's freshman year when he didn't get more playing time because you could see he had such good feet. I firmly believe all big men should have a baby hook they can go to. It's the perfect shot for someone like Coleman that gets blocked a lot. If he used his body to get position, he could turn and shoot that shot all day. It's a tough shot to block and something you can get off quickly. If he gets a few of those to fall early, he can then catch, give a quick up fake to get the guy off of his feet, and one dribble drop step for a layup.
iommi
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 12,659
- Like
- 27,331
I'm beating a dead horse here, as I've made this point many times... but I am going to reiterate...
We need a big man coach. I realize Hop is an invaluable recruiter and assistant but the lack of improvement from our bigs in recent years has been glaring. Can't we use our vast resources to find someone who actually played power forward or center to coach our power forwards and centers? If you guys think that anyone can coach bigs, that's your opinion and that's fine. I think we need a guy who has played the position to teach our bigs.
I look at it like football: when you hire a receivers coach, don't you think an ex-receiver makes a better candidate because they've been there/ done that? When a WR coach (like Rob Moore), shows how to run a route effectively, doesn't it help that they used to do it in their playing days? I realize the guy has to be able to recruit. I also understand that our current coaches are fantastic but they are all ex-guards.
As others in this thread have said, there are 2 or 3 basic go-to moves for big men. That I can't recall Dajaun even trying a baby hook is very telling. He's been making the same bull in a china closet move for two years...and don't get me started on Roc, who still is very limited in what he's even trying to do offensively.
We need a big man coach. I realize Hop is an invaluable recruiter and assistant but the lack of improvement from our bigs in recent years has been glaring. Can't we use our vast resources to find someone who actually played power forward or center to coach our power forwards and centers? If you guys think that anyone can coach bigs, that's your opinion and that's fine. I think we need a guy who has played the position to teach our bigs.
I look at it like football: when you hire a receivers coach, don't you think an ex-receiver makes a better candidate because they've been there/ done that? When a WR coach (like Rob Moore), shows how to run a route effectively, doesn't it help that they used to do it in their playing days? I realize the guy has to be able to recruit. I also understand that our current coaches are fantastic but they are all ex-guards.
As others in this thread have said, there are 2 or 3 basic go-to moves for big men. That I can't recall Dajaun even trying a baby hook is very telling. He's been making the same bull in a china closet move for two years...and don't get me started on Roc, who still is very limited in what he's even trying to do offensively.
Last edited:
sufandu
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 16,019
- Like
- 25,916
I don't know that you have to have played the position to coach it, but that's one way you could go. Even in football guys coach positions they never played. I believe P was a linebacker, and he coached TE's in the NFL. Shafer was a QB in college but has made his living as a defensive coach.
I wonder is Otis Hill can recruit?
two3zone
RIP Shark58
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2013
- Messages
- 70,456
- Like
- 79,525
I have to admit I wasn't a big fan of DC2 when he was coming in. He is built like a truck but didn't play like one. We saw an instant change from Fab his first to second year but I don't think we see anything close to that this year. Defensively he looks completely lost, offensively I cringe when he has the ball or is even open hoping somebody doesn't see him with his hands in the air.
I'm not trying to be a pessimist about DC2 and I hope he proves me wrong but I don't see him becoming much here and I think after BMK leaves we're going to be praying that Chin is ready to play 30 minutes a game. Outside of ht & wt that's where the comparisons should stop with AO and DC2. They're completely different players with totally different skill sets.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm not trying to be a pessimist about DC2 and I hope he proves me wrong but I don't see him becoming much here and I think after BMK leaves we're going to be praying that Chin is ready to play 30 minutes a game. Outside of ht & wt that's where the comparisons should stop with AO and DC2. They're completely different players with totally different skill sets.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ghost
Gentleman of the Night
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 25,726
- Like
- 42,529
Sort of captures my general feeling last year when I first saw him play. I'm still somewhat unsure what I think of his long term prospects, but I am fairly sure that he's not going to give us what most are hoping for this year. The rebounding should be solid, but not sure what else he's going to give us other than a live body. And maybe that's enough - but not what I was hoping for when he signed.
I do think he has a decent chance to make that jump going forward though. His tendency to always have the ball around his waist sort of inhibits his game - and I'm not sure how explosive he is/or may be going forward as he gets in better shape. I don't know, hopefully it gets clearer through the next few games. I wouldn't be shocked if I was wrong.
zhanjuzi
2nd String
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2011
- Messages
- 628
- Like
- 770
I don't believe we will see much improvement in Coleman over last year other than the conditioning he seemed to focus on over the summer. Best case he spends next off-season in a big man's camp learning how play the post the correctly. It takes a special mentality to recognize that a complete technical restructuring is required and to then go ahead and make it happen.