Defending the Spread Offense | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Defending the Spread Offense

I don't think it's the spread as much as athletic QB's who can create on the fly.
 
Hoov50 said:
I agree, I don't expect to completely shut down teams who run the spread. When we play against spread teams our philosophy is; "They are going to make the occasional big play, but we have to limit their big plays." Against teams that run the spread/read option there are simple ways to dictate who carries the ball. When gameplanning we identify who the better runner is and make sure they don't get the ball in the option. When I watch SU's defense "defend" the read option, it looks like they don't understand the concept at all. If you are going to have your DL continue to read the hip and close down when the OL blocks away, then you sure as heck better have another player on the second level who is responsible for the other offensive player. Why force the QB to pull and keep the ball to the outside when you don't have anyone responsible for him?! I know that college offenses are much more complex than high school spread offenses, but if we can teach our 15-18 year old kids in one week how to dictate who carries the ball it seems like college players and coaches could do the same with more resources (coaches, time, films) at their disposal.
Expand...

Agreed, and unfortunately Zaire was a big culprit. Not one of his best games. On a few replays he went to the wrong side; poor reads (or guesses) not sure which.
 
TheCusian said:
I don't think it's the spread as much as athletic QB's who can create on the fly.
Expand...
I don't often disagree with your view but I would much rather face a mobile QB who isn't allowed count the defense and throw bubbles than I would a pro-style QB with 3/4 wide who counts the defenders (correctly) on each side and throws a bubble or hands off to an RB.

Obviously I would rather face a pro-style QB who can't count cause he would be on his back all day but if I had to choose from the above I would rather face the former than the latter
 
Spread teams I recall playing are Clemson, USF, Toledo, Cincy, West Va, Penn State, Northwestern and CMU. I probably missed someone, but it doesn't appear to me that Shafer's defenses have done any worse against spread offenses. With a couple of exceptions, our offensive problems were as much to fault in these games as our defense. Perhaps my memory is faulty.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
A lot of the fun to running a lot of plays and going up tempo is that you get to do a lot of everything.
Expand...
True enough, but the plays have to work or you just get quick 3-and-outs a la SU circa 2013!
 
That's why Baylor's come up with this super novel idea of forcing the defense to spread way out to the boundary to cover receivers, thus opening the middle for them to run the ball. Then if the defense cheats to stop the run, they throw the ball over the top.

It doesn't have a fancy position title though, so I could see why more coaches don't try to emulate it.
 
Full_Rebar said:
Then if the defense cheats to stop the run, they throw the ball over the top.
Expand...
or just throw it to the side. it's the easiest thing in the world and 2 of our offensive coordinators 4 years apart thought the bubble was something you dictated to the defense. and the lesson shafer learned from that was to never throw it. ugh
 
Millhouse said:
or just throw it to the side. it's the easiest thing in the world and 2 of our offensive coordinators 4 years apart thought the bubble was something you dictated to the defense. and the lesson shafer learned from that was to never throw it. ugh
Expand...

Not factual in the least.

- Recently he said McDonald was relieved of his OC duties because of managerial issues - not exactly system
- He didn't go with Lester because he doesn't believe in or understand the spread*, he did it because he thinks he's the right guy for the job. So far, that's been proven correct.

* That you assume that Shafer doesn't understand when to throw a bubble screen or the spread in general is crazy talk. Pure crazy talk. Insane.
 
TheCusian said:
Not factual in the least.

- Recently he said McDonald was relieved of his OC duties because of managerial issues - not exactly system
- He didn't go with Lester because he doesn't believe in or understand the spread*, he did it because he thinks he's the right guy for the job. So far, that's been proven correct.

* That you assume that Shafer doesn't understand when to throw a bubble screen or the spread in general is crazy talk. Pure crazy talk. Insane.
Expand...
Lester and the players made it pretty clear they didn't like the system. and they don't throw bubble screens at all this year. and they've never defended it very well.
 
Millhouse said:
Lester and the players made it pretty clear they didn't like the system. and they don't throw bubble screens at all this year. and they've never defended it very well.
Expand...

Yeah - sure. But that's quite a jump to Shafer doesn't understand it
 
TheCusian said:
Yeah - sure. But that's quite a jump to Shafer doesn't understand it
Expand...
if shafer fired mcdonald because of just managerial issues, then he clearly didn't understand the point of bubble screens

maryland and notre dame come to mind
 
Millhouse said:
if shafer fired mcdonald because of just managerial issues, then he clearly didn't understand the point of bubble screens maryland and notre dame come to mind
Expand...

Not "just" managerial - but that's what he cited as the main reason.

If anything I think the fault lies in Shafer being too hands off with the offense. Wasn't holding Mcit responsible for running and changing the system into an unworkable boondoggle.

Maryland - they got beat on one, where Shafer said our guy read it wrong.

ND - I think they were giving them that because they feared the deep ball.

You must not remember Reddish destroying bubble screen after bubble screen last year.
 
I thought the only defense of the spread was to outscore it? Isn't this a case where a good offense is the best defense?
 
Granted, it's been 12 years since I coached at the college level and it was only Division III, but other than the pre-season we rarely went full team against our own offense. Sure, we did plenty of one-on-one and unit vs. unit drills, but leading up to games we went against a s c o u t team (a combination of offensive and defensive back-ups) who ran the other teams offense.

The reason I bring this up, is because many posters have responded saying that our offensive coordinator not understanding when and how to use certain plays has hindered our defense. Does SU's defense spend a great deal of time going against our own offense in practice? If that is the case, that could also be part of the issue. This statement is not something against our offense, but you have to prepare for the plays and schemes you are going to see in a game, not prepare against your offense running their version of the plays and schemes.

I know you cannot completely replicate another team's offense (whether it is spread or traditional pro-style) since you are never going to run it as well in practice as your opponent will in the game. However, you can work on recognizing sets, keys, etc...
 
Last edited:
Hoov50 said:
Granted, it's been 12 years since I coached at the college level and it was only Division III, but other than the pre-season we rarely went full team against our own offense. Sure, we did plenty of one-on-one and unit vs. unit drills, but leading up to games we went against a . . . . . team (a combination of offensive and defensive back-ups) who ran the other teams offense. The reason I bring this up, is because many posters have responded saying that our offensive coordinator not understanding when and how to use certain plays has hindered our offense. Does SU's defense spend a great deal of time going against our own offense in practice? If that is the case, that could also be part of the issue. This statement is not something against our offense, but you have to prepare for the plays and schemes you are going to see in a game, not prepare against your offense running their version of the plays and schemes. I know you cannot completely replicate another team's offense (whether it is spread or traditional pro-style) since you are never going to run it as well in practice as your opponent will in the game. However, you can work on recognizing sets, keys, etc...
Expand...

Pretty sure they go against the scout team.
 
We get into trouble with a spread offense that has a mobile QB. WVU had Geno. Geno is not mobile. Our defense is predicated on speed, especially within the linebacker unit. The front four sucks up blocks allowing linebackers to make plays. They made no plays on Saturday. Hopefully they make more this Saturday. One problem is their youth, although Hodge is a junior. He as the WILL should be making the most plays.

As pointed out we previously had a lot of success against the spread using the okie package (3-3-5 I think since there were 3 LBs in- Hodge, Davis, Cam last year). This brings in another safety. Right now I don't think we have 3 safeties who should be playing regularly. I think we have 1.5 with all of them having issues with consistency.

I think this is really the key to the defense moving forward- recruiting safeties who are big enough to play the run but can also match up in the passing game, particularly against bigger receivers (genius I know which I do know everyone realizes). Eventually coaches will realize that the athletes (who are all moving to the offensive side) have to be on the defensive side also. Eric Burrell and Marquis Blair would have fit this role. I think DMC can fit this role right now.
 
RICuse44 said:
We get into trouble with a spread offense that has a mobile QB. WVU had Geno. Geno is not mobile. Our defense is predicated on speed, especially within the linebacker unit. The front four sucks up blocks allowing linebackers to make plays. They made no plays on Saturday. Hopefully they make more this Saturday. One problem is their youth, although Hodge is a junior. He as the WILL should be making the most plays.

As pointed out we previously had a lot of success against the spread using the okie package (3-3-5 I think since there were 3 LBs in- Hodge, Davis, Cam last year). This brings in another safety. Right now I don't think we have 3 safeties who should be playing regularly. I think we have 1.5 with all of them having issues with consistency.

I think this is really the key to the defense moving forward- recruiting safeties who are big enough to play the run but can also match up in the passing game, particularly against bigger receivers (genius I know which I do know everyone realizes). Eventually coaches will realize that the athletes (who are all moving to the offensive side) have to be on the defensive side also. Eric Burrell and Marquis Blair would have fit this role. I think DMC can fit this role right now.
Expand...

The biggest issue is our inexperience. In Bullough's post game interview he pointed out that 50% of the snaps were with guys that had never played CFB before versus 7% last year. That really says it all. It is not our scheme it is execution.

Take a good look at our 23 man depth chart:
8 Freshmen/RS Freshmen
DE 93 Qaadir Sheppard (6-3, 247, Fr.)
NT 52 Kayton Samuels (6-0, 300, R-Fr.)
NT 72 Steven Clark (6-2, 303, Fr.)
DT 95 Chris Slayton (6-4, 288, R-Fr.)
CB 20 Cordell Hudson (5-11, 182, R-Fr.)
CB 15 Juwan Dowels (5-10, 177, R-Fr.)
SS 25 Kielan Whitner (6-0, 196, Fr.)
FS 6 Rodney Williams (5-10,196, R-Fr)

6 Sophomores
SLB 30 Parris Bennett (6-0, 216, So.)
MLB 4 Zaire Franklin (6-0, 230, So.)
WLB 49 Alryk Perry (6-1, 221, So.)
SS 8 Antwan Cordy (5-8, 175, So.)
FS 21 Chauncy Scissum (6-2, 207, So.)
CB 11 Corey Winfield (6-1, 181, So.)

5 Juniors
CB 2 Wayne Morgan (5-11, 190, Jr.)
DE 13 Ron Thompson (6-3, 255, Jr.)
SLB 37 Ted Taylor (6-1, 193, Jr.)
DE 5 Luke Arciniega (6-4, 243, Jr.)
WLB 33 Marqez Hodge (5-11, 221, Jr.)

4 Seniors
CB 1 Julian Whigham (6-1, 200, Sr.)
DT 50 John Raymon (6-5, 308, Sr.)
DE 51 Donnie Simmons (6-2, 264, Sr.)
MLB 7 Oliver Vigille (6-2, 235, Sr.)
 
Crusty said:
The biggest issue is our inexperience. In Bullough's post game interview he pointed out that 50% of the snaps were with guys that had never played CFB before versus 7% last year. That really says it all. It is not our scheme it is execution.

Take a good look at our 23 man depth chart:
8 Freshmen/RS Freshmen
DE 93 Qaadir Sheppard (6-3, . . . , Fr.)
NT 52 Kayton Samuels (6-0, 300, R-Fr.)
NT 72 Steven Clark (6-2, 303, Fr.)
DT 95 Chris Slayton (6-4, 288, R-Fr.)
CB 20 Cordell Hudson (5-11, 182, R-Fr.)
CB 15 Juwan Dowels (5-10, 177, R-Fr.)
SS 25 Kielan Whitner (6-0, 196, Fr.)
FS 6 Rodney Williams (5-10,196, R-Fr)

6 Sophomores
SLB 30 Parris Bennett (6-0, 216, So.)
MLB 4 Zaire Franklin (6-0, 230, So.)
WLB 49 Alryk Perry (6-1, 221, So.)
SS 8 Antwan Cordy (5-8, 175, So.)
FS 21 Chauncy Scissum (6-2, 207, So.)
CB 11 Corey Winfield (6-1, 181, So.)

5 Juniors
CB 2 Wayne Morgan (5-11, 190, Jr.)
DE 13 Ron Thompson (6-3, 255, Jr.)
SLB 37 Ted Taylor (6-1, 193, Jr.)
DE 5 Luke Arciniega (6-4, 243, Jr.)
WLB 33 Marqez Hodge (5-11, 221, Jr.)

4 Seniors
CB 1 Julian Whigham (6-1, 200, Sr.)
DT 50 John Raymon (6-5, 308, Sr.)
DE 51 Donnie Simmons (6-2, 264, Sr.)
MLB 7 Oliver Vigille (6-2, 235, Sr.)
Expand...

Wow. I knew were young but didn't realize we were this young.
 
Crusty said:
The biggest issue is our inexperience. In Bullough's post game interview he pointed out that 50% of the snaps were with guys that had never played CFB before versus 7% last year. That really says it all. It is not our scheme it is execution.
Expand...

Youth certainly is a factor but so is scheme. It requires too much of our players IMO. Look at the spread teams we played in 2013 and 2014:

Northwestern
P5 averages 24 ppg 149 rushing 246 passing
vs SU 48 points 206 rushing 375 passing

Clemson
P5 38 ppg 172 rush 332 pass
SU 49 points 156 rush 468 pass

NC State
P5 16.9 ppg 145 rush 222 pass
SU 10 points 129 rush 226 pass

ND
P5 30 ppg 143 rush 282 pass
SU 31 points 161 rush 362 pass

Wake
P5 12 ppg 39 rush 154 pass
SU 7 points 71 rush 99 pass

Clemson
P5 27.3 ppg 130 rush 253 pass
SU 16 points 166 rush 209 pass

NC State
P5 24.6 ppg 185 rush 167 pass
SU 24 points 121 rush 186 pass



Outside of last year's Clemson game have we done any better than average? There have been some real stinkers in there as well. It isn't like this year is the only time we haven't played well.
 
It seems like we make every opponent's quarterback look like Dan Marino or Michael Vick or some combination of the two. I think our defensive scheme is just really poor against bubble screen teams. The DBs give a healthy cushion, so there is lots of time for the ball to be delivered and space for blockers to get out in front. We are constantly sending linebackers and safeties on blitzs so they corners are overrun on the edge. Also, our d linemen play aggressively and get up field so they offer little resistance to pulling/wandering o-lineman looking to get down field to block. We recruit tiny LBs and DBs who can run, but can't get off blocks well and don't tackle well in the open field (some notable exceptions were S. Thomas, and Anderson and Reddish during their senior years).

All of this, plus in general, just look at the way teams move the ball and score points in college these days. Most teams struggle on defense in general, particularly against spreads. Our defensive inadequacies are amplified by our recent years or running the spread so poorly, comparatively.
 
K Otto XLIV said:
Youth certainly is a factor but so is scheme. It requires too much of our players IMO. Look at the spread teams we played in 2013 and 2014: Northwestern P5 averages 24 ppg 149 rushing 246 passing vs SU 48 points 206 rushing 375 passing Clemson P5 38 ppg 172 rush 332 pass SU 49 points 156 rush 468 pass NC State P5 16.9 ppg 145 rush 222 pass SU 10 points 129 rush 226 pass ND P5 30 ppg 143 rush 282 pass SU 31 points 161 rush 362 pass Wake P5 12 ppg 39 rush 154 pass SU 7 points 71 rush 99 pass Clemson P5 27.3 ppg 130 rush 253 pass SU 16 points 166 rush 209 pass NC State P5 24.6 ppg 185 rush 167 pass SU 24 points 121 rush 186 pass Outside of last year's Clemson game have we done any better than average? There have been some real stinkers in there as well. It isn't like this year is the only time we haven't played well.
Expand...

Well, yeah. You'd be hard pressed to find any team with marginal talent (and sometimes with exceptional) not have games like that. Sometimes the offense is better or the scheme sucks or a player goes off, etc.

On the whole, I think our D coaches are good enough to win. This year the story is obviously youth.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
170,446
Messages
4,891,560
Members
5,998
Latest member
powdersmack

Share this page

Online statistics

Members online
37
Guests online
922
Total visitors
959
Totals may include hidden visitors.


...
Top Bottom