Defensive Rebounding is NOT the key to a good season

[Cusefan0307]

We have never been a good defensive rebounding team in the KenPom era. Never rebounding more than 69.6 percent of our opponents misses.

Our best rebounding team was two years ago and we were the last team in.

2012 and 2013 we rebounded just 62% and 65% of our opponents misses (which were two of our worst rebounding teams the past 20 years) and we went a combined 64-13.

What is key for us is forcing a lot of turnovers. Those two teams in 2012 and 2013 were top 25 in turnover %.

Also the last two years we were sub 200 in FG%. That needs to change.

I’ve seen a lot of posts saying rebounding is a key. It is not. We will be a bad rebounding team. We need to be better in other areas.

 

[orangecuse]

We have never been a good defensive rebounding team in the KenPom era. Never rebounding more than 69.6 percent of our opponents misses.

Our best rebounding team was two years ago and we were the last team in.

2012 and 2013 we rebounded just 62% and 65% of our opponents misses (which were two of our worst rebounding teams the past 20 years) and we went a combined 64-13.

What is key for us is forcing a lot of turnovers. Those two teams in 2012 and 2013 were top 25 in turnover %.

Also the last two years we were sub 200 in FG%. That needs to change.

I’ve seen a lot of posts saying rebounding is a key. It is not. We will be a bad rebounding team. We need to be better in other areas.

Agree completely. I'll add the sentiment that we'll go as our guards go. Guard play, and the consistency of it, IMO, is the most critical area in the college game.

 

[Gabjon]

Completely agreed. The Zone is designed to produce turnovers and to reduce an opponents shooting percentage by limiting their best shooters and challenging shots in general. But it does expose us on the glass and we have lost many key games over the years by being destroyed on the glass so it has become focus of many of the fan base. Anything more than -5 is a problem.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I think one of the keys this year is can we get second shots? We have to get some easy opportunities. At times during the exhibition games, we just played around the perimeter with little penetration. Cutting, back doors and making the defense pay attention to more than just the guy with the ball will allow easier opportunities. This is where Guerrier and Braswell can help us. Marek is a great passer and if you move he will find you. Hughes and Marek have excellent chemistry. Now we need to get some of the other guys involved. Girard will also find you. Buddy is pretty good too.

 

[Gabjon]

I think one of the keys this year is can we get second shots? We have to get some easy opportunities. At times during the exhibition games, we just played around the perimeter with little penetration. Cutting, back doors and making the defense pay attention to more than just the guy with the ball will allow easier opportunities. This is where Guerrier and Braswell can help us. Marek is a great passer and if you move he will find you. Hughes and Marek have excellent chemistry. Now we need to get some of the other guys involved. Girard will also find you. Buddy is pretty good too.

I think some of that was gamesmanship. JB changes his offense year to year more than most people realize and with UVA coming in with their pack line defense why tip your hand.

 

[rrlbees]

We have never been a good defensive rebounding team in the KenPom era. Never rebounding more than 69.6 percent of our opponents misses.

Our best rebounding team was two years ago and we were the last team in.

2012 and 2013 we rebounded just 62% and 65% of our opponents misses (which were two of our worst rebounding teams the past 20 years) and we went a combined 64-13.

What is key for us is forcing a lot of turnovers. Those two teams in 2012 and 2013 were top 25 in turnover %.

Also the last two years we were sub 200 in FG%. That needs to change.

I’ve seen a lot of posts saying rebounding is a key. It is not. We will be a bad rebounding team. We need to be better in other areas.

that’s fun with numbers. A multitude of things go into winning. A team can not rebound a high percentage of the opponents missed and win if other things are going on such as shooting well, rebounding good offensively, getting steals, the other team shooting poorly, etc. No single stat stands alone. Every team is different too. But the one constant is being able to limit the 2nd shots of the other team and getting second chances on your end. When we had great teams we usually ponded teams on the boards. This team has shooters galore. I’m not worried about PG play because we have 3 of them and they won’t all fail as well as a good wing ball handler in Hughes. We need to be able to rebound to be real successful.

 

[Cusefan0307]

that’s fun with numbers. A multitude of things go into winning. A team can not rebound a high percentage of the opponents missed and win if other things are going on such as shooting well, rebounding good offensively, getting steals, the other team shooting poorly, etc. No single stat stands alone. Every team is different too. But the one constant is being able to limit the 2nd shots of the other team and getting second chances on your end. When we had great teams we usually ponded teams on the boards. This team has shooters galore. I’m not worried about PG play because we have 3 of them and they won’t all fail as well as a good wing ball handler in Hughes. We need to be able to rebound to be real successful.

Yeah and we are usually a good offensive rebounding team. This is specific to defensive rebounding and I’m sure we won’t be good at it.

 

[rrlbees]

Yeah and we are usually a good offensive rebounding team. This is specific to defensive rebounding and I’m sure we won’t be good at it.

I was talking rebounding in general as your last paragraph said it is not key. Rebounding will be our biggest issue and something we need to overcome and be better.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I was talking rebounding in general as your last paragraph said it is not key. Rebounding will be our biggest issue and something we need to overcome and be better.

and it’s our biggest issue every year. We most likely won’t be good at it.

 

[Cheriehoop]

You also can’t run without rebounding the ball. It dampens our offensive opportunities, improves opponents offensive opportunities, effects our style of play, really slowing the game down.

 

[Cusesky8214]

3 ball/turnovers/tough defense we win some games. We have a bad shooting night then we are In for a rough time. Glad we have a few snipers this year. Buddy/JG3 are going to shoot lights out and Eli has gotten pretty hot. People are sleeping on Goodine too...kid shot the heck out of the 3 ball his last couple years in high school/aau (I forget the %s but I recall it being really good) we are going to be 3 ball dominant but hopefully with good ball movement it will open some stuff up inside and we will have good uncontested shots and not shooting up a bunch of crap in the last couple seconds of the shot clock hoping it goes in like we watched the past few years.

 

[Brooky03]

Who gets the rebounds is an important factor. When we have a C and PF who clean up the boards without help, we get into transition more often.

 

[Gabjon]

Yeah and we are usually a good offensive rebounding team. This is specific to defensive rebounding and I’m sure we won’t be good at it.

Agreed! Hughes only averaged 4.3 rebounds a game last year in 32.6 mins. and that includes offensive rebounds. Guerrier looks like a good rebounder, but he has not done it against size yet so it is a big question mark in my mind.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We need to force more turnovers up top to be able to run and not have a walk it up PG. the defensive rebounding won’t be good no mister how people try to spin it. The stats don’t lie. We are continuously one of the worse defensive rebounding teams in the country every year even when we are good.

 

[bozophobe]

We need to force more turnovers up top to be able to run and not have a walk it up PG. the defensive rebounding won’t be good no mister how people try to spin it. The stats don’t lie. We are continuously one of the worse defensive rebounding teams in the country every year even when we are good.

Beat me to it. Defensive rebounding over the past few years usually meant just a guard walk-up, and a fairly low score. Don't recall many fast-break buckets since the heavy mid-first half substitution days of 2010-2013 or so.

Good news is that this year or next, the team could be deep (and good) enough to do that again enough to frustrate most teams.

 

[rrlbees]

We need to force more turnovers up top to be able to run and not have a walk it up PG. the defensive rebounding won’t be good no mister how people try to spin it. The stats don’t lie. We are continuously one of the worse defensive rebounding teams in the country every year even when we are good.

did someone say we’re a good defensive rebounding team? Who spun it?

 

[upperdeck]

all rebounds are not created equal. you can be great at getting easy rebounds and bad at getting tough ones.

 

[OttoMets]

...

I’ve seen a lot of posts saying rebounding is a key. It is not. We will be a bad rebounding team. We need to be better in other areas.

And make the most of the few defensive rebounds we do get. Outlet! Up court! Not to the nearest guard who's standing behind the rebounder. That's something that we probably can't quantify but we've sorely missed for six years.

I think we have the personnel to do better.

 

[Newhouser]

key to this and every season is how we share the ball. With all the shooters we have our ability and willingness to make the extra pass will determine how we go (assuming our shooters make the looks which I am confident they will).

 

[cuseinseattle]

We have never been a good defensive rebounding team in the KenPom era. Never rebounding more than 69.6 percent of our opponents misses.

Our best rebounding team was two years ago and we were the last team in.

2012 and 2013 we rebounded just 62% and 65% of our opponents misses (which were two of our worst rebounding teams the past 20 years) and we went a combined 64-13.

What is key for us is forcing a lot of turnovers. Those two teams in 2012 and 2013 were top 25 in turnover %.

Also the last two years we were sub 200 in FG%. That needs to change.

I’ve seen a lot of posts saying rebounding is a key. It is not. We will be a bad rebounding team. We need to be better in other areas.

You millennials and your numbers. I agree for the most part with what you are saying. Getting turnovers at the top of the zone is unbelievable important for us and especially when we have Carey and Goodine in there we need to do that. I did bring up rebounding but was doing it as a we cannot be unbelievable bad and get killed by over 10 boards in games against good teams and expect to win those games. I think our shooting will be better and really help us but we need to not let teams destroy us on the glass.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Who gets the rebounds is an important factor. When we have a C and PF who clean up the boards without help, we get into transition more often.

I disagree. What matters more is having the 1-2-3 guys be able to push the ball and finish on the break. We haven't had a good C-PF rebounding combo since Seikaly/Coleman.

 

[rrlbees]

I disagree. What matters more is having the 1-2-3 guys be able to push the ball and finish on the break. We haven't had a good C-PF rebounding combo since Seikaly/Coleman.

the first requirement in being able to push the ball is rebounding.

 

[FrancoPizza]

the first requirement in being able to push the ball is rebounding.

0307's stats make a convincing argument that turnover % is the biggest differentiator.

 

[Brooky03]

I disagree. What matters more is having the 1-2-3 guys be able to push the ball and finish on the break. We haven't had a good C-PF rebounding combo since Seikaly/Coleman.

Statistically and anecdotally, that’s not true.

 

[rrlbees]

0307's stats make a convincing argument that turnover % is the biggest differentiator.

believe what you want of the cherry picked stats. There are far more rebounds than there are turnovers. Team that run rebound. You know those two guys you mentioned? We ran because they were monsters on the boards.