depth

[CuseFaninVT]

• we are going 9 deep vs wagner.
• I dont understand how the conditions dictated colemans PT? The only reason I have heard so far is that Kieta runs and jumps better...

Is the Wagner game a "real game"? Sorry, I should have put that in the original post. I loved that odd definition.

Anyway, I didn't see Coleman's PT in the SDSU so I can't really comment on his actual play, but maybe JB was trying to clear out the lane a bit to allow the guards to drive and Coleman's game is more posting up. Hardly ever see Baye do that - in fact, he jumps out trying to pick a ton. So he's good at getting the heck out of the way. And he knows that even if he does post up the guards won't throw him the ball anyway. Not sure - just speculating.

 

[RF2044]

• we are going 9 deep vs wagner.
• I dont understand how the conditions dictated colemans PT? The only reason I have heard so far is that Kieta runs and jumps better...

Foul trouble and SDSU's substitutions / rotation dictated Coleman playing fewer minutes. Again, in a few more games, JB might have more confidence in playing him. I know this is not what you are saying, but there is no doubt that Coleman is going to be a good player for us--playing in his first game against a ranked opponent in a non-friendly environment induced JB to go with players that he was more comfortable with--doesn't mean that Keita is "better" than him or will play a bigger role this year.

If SDSU had been our 7th game [hypothetically], I think we would have seen Coleman / Cooney play more.

 

[moqui]

I dont know, I guess I am the only 1.

I guess everyone but me knew that Coleman would play less than 10 min. And not come back in at all after the 1st tv timeouts of each half.

We'll see how it plays out. I was surprised. That's all.

I was surprised by it at the time, but as the game wore on I understood it more. Offense in that game - for both sides - was going to come from attacking the basket. Dajuan is very good at taking up space in the middle and will probably prove to be an effective post defender, but he is not a rim protector - at least not now and not at the level that Moose & Rak are, nor even Dirty & CJ for that matter. SDSU didn't have big bodies, so we didn't need to counter that. We needed people to meet their slashers at the cup, like this:

(I love finding excuses to post this picture - right click & view image to get the full effect)

 

[Knicks411]

I really am not concerned about guys playing too many minutes at all. We're talking about 21 year old kids who play 2 games a week with lots of tv timeouts.

Kentucky won the title last year basically playing a 6.5 man rotation. I don't want the guards playing 40 minutes a night, but short of that, I'm not going to be too worried about them wearing down

 

[Garbs]

why are people so upset with the assessment that we may not go 9 deep this year?

maybe jb has never used the term 7.5 man rotation, but everyone here knows that is how he has traditionally run his teams. Even last year, we were basically 7.5 deep. and that was supposed to be our deepest team ever.

there is no such thing as half a person

 

[CusefanATL]

there is no such thing as half a person

:bang:

we are all syracuse fans here... why are you just being difficult?

 

[Garbs]

because saying the rotation is 7.5 makes no sense

you are either in the rotation or not, you can't be half in

 

[moqui]

Explain to me in one concise sentence what .5 looks like and I will consider your posit.

.5 is as euphemism for a player who gets regular rotation minutes for a stretch of games, then suddenly and inexplicably plays 5 minutes or less for the next few. If you don't play regular minutes in every game, you are by definition not a regular rotation player. But if you play regular rotation minutes in many but not all games, then we as fans have to account for you in some way.

IIRC, it was first coined to explain Josh Pace's emergence, then disappearance, then re-emergence from the rotation in 2003

 

[Garbs]

to me they aren't in the rotation

rotation means you get in every game

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Which feeds back to the original post in that we have limited depth this year despite many believing we would go 9 deep this year. JB tells you what he thinks by the substitutions he makes. Southerland at the two in the zone tells me that JB does not believe Cooney offers enough defense to stay on the floor even when our starting PG goes to the bench. Because Dirty's game is also primarily shooting the long ball but his length and defense kept him on the floor playing what most believe is slightly out of position.

Which feeds back to the idea that you probably shouldn't draw any conclusions on how much our three newest players play from the first non-exhibition of the season against a ranked opponent played all the way on the other coast.

On a boat.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Which feeds back to the idea that you probably shouldn't draw any conclusions on how much our three newest players play from the first non-exhibition of the season against a ranked opponent played all the way on the other coast.

On a boat.

Which is essentially what I said. Here.

Personally, I'm not sure you can actually learn anything from that game. The conditions dictated everything. If we see the same thing from JB next indoor game, then we have a trend and the truth will be a little more clear.

 

[moqui]

to me they aren't in the rotation

rotation means you get in every game

by that definition, BMK was not a rotation player last year (he got two DNPs not related to suspension or injury). Neither was MCW who only appeared in 26 games.

in 2010-11, CJ was not a rotation players (three DNPs), nor was James (7 DNPs)

but we all know that all those guys were in the rotation. Some of us use the term ".5" to refer to someone like James in 10-11 who was clearly a key part of the team, but who would often log unsubstantial minutes or even DNPs

Nobody is claiming it is an official term. It's just a piece of "fan shorthand." I don't think it is that difficult to grasp.

 

[cuseinseattle]

.5 is as euphemism for a player who gets regular rotation minutes for a stretch of games, then suddenly and inexplicably plays 5 minutes or less for the next few. If you don't play regular minutes in every game, you are by definition not a regular rotation player. But if you play regular rotation minutes in many but not all games, then we as fans have to account for you in some way.

IIRC, it was first coined to explain Josh Pace's emergence, then disappearance, then re-emergence from the rotation in 2003

I don't think the .5 thing will come into play this year the following players are in the rotation

G MCW
G Triche
G Cooney
F Southerland
F DC2
F Keita
F Christmas
F Fair

I don't think Grant will crack the rotation consistently unless there is foul trouble or he really practices well and there is a need for him. Last year Christmas didn't crack the rotation because Fair, Joseph and Fab were all better than him by a substantial margin. So this whole is Boeheim going to give DC2 the Christmas treatment which was written by Axe yesterday is stupid. If you think we are going to have a 7 man rotation then I would like to know who people think will not play.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't think the .5 thing will come into play this year the following players are in the rotation

G MCW
G Triche
G Cooney
F Southerland
F DC2
F Keita
F Christmas
F Fair

I don't think Grant will crack the rotation consistently unless there is foul trouble or he really practices well and there is a need for him. Last year Christmas didn't crack the rotation because Fair, Joseph and Fab were all better than him by a substantial margin. So this whole is Boeheim going to give DC2 the Christmas treatment which was written by Axe yesterday is stupid. If you think we are going to have a 7 man rotation then I would like to know who people think will not play.

Thus, an 8.5 man rotation.

 

[Garbs]

by that definition, BMK was not a rotation player last year (he got two DNPs not related to suspension or injury). Neither was MCW who only appeared in 26 games.

in 2010-11, CJ was not a rotation players (three DNPs), nor was James (7 DNPs)

but we all know that all those guys were in the rotation. Some of us use the term ".5" to refer to someone like James in 10-11 who was clearly a key part of the team, but who would often log unsubstantial minutes or even DNPs

Nobody is claiming it is an official term. It's just a piece of "fan shorthand." I don't think it is that difficult to grasp.

I think it is a term for people too dumb to figure out that in your examples above:

BMK was part of the rotation
CJ and James were
MCW clearly was not

 

[moqui]

I think it is a term for people too dumb to figure out that in your examples above:

BMK was part of the rotation
CJ and James were
MCW clearly was not

your definition:

rotation means you get in every game

I think you are just being stubborn now.

.5 is a rhetorical device that honors someone like Josh Pace, who logged 4 minutes or less - including 3 DNPs - in 11 of 35 games in the 2003 season, yet was still a key part of the championship team.

By definition, he was not part of the rotation. In fact, he was crucial.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

I don't think the .5 thing will come into play this year the following players are in the rotation

G MCW
G Triche
G Cooney
F Southerland
F DC2
F Keita
F Christmas
F Fair

I don't think Grant will crack the rotation consistently unless there is foul trouble or he really practices well and there is a need for him. Last year Christmas didn't crack the rotation because Fair, Joseph and Fab were all better than him by a substantial margin. So this whole is Boeheim going to give DC2 the Christmas treatment which was written by Axe yesterday is stupid. If you think we are going to have a 7 man rotation then I would like to know who people think will not play.

I'm not saying the following will happen, but the odds of it are significant. I'm talking conference/tourney games, not pre-season cupcakes, which are legion this year.

Of the eight players you have there, I can see Cooney getting limited minutes if Southerland starts playing SG. JB will have no qualms about MCW and BT playing 65-70 minutes total of the 80 guard minutes, with Southerland getting the rest.

CJ and JS will also get the majority of the PF/SF minutes probably 55-60 between them. That only leaves 60-65 minutes at PF/C for DC2, BMK, and Xmas. My best guess is that Xmas sees 30-35 of those minutes, and BMK and DC2 split the rest.

JB goes game by game and sees who matches up. Most teams don't have two true C/PF's - some play three forwards, two of them small. It has been JB's nature to play down to his opponents strengths. Expect to see more of CJ/JS at the forwards than you may think.

It would not surprise me at all to see 35+ mpg for the big games from: MCW, BT, CJ, JS, and maybe even Xmas. JB is not uncomfortable with that. Irrespective of position, those are his 5 best players right now. That doesn't leave much for DC2, BMK, or TC.

As an afterthought, JG's minutes will likely look a lot like MCW's last year.

 

[orangefan13]

IMO Grants best shot at getting good minutes come BE is bringing some tough sliding defense/rebounding and most importantly on the offensive end showing some of the mid/high post scoring abiliities of Fair. Becuse, thats not something we will likely see from James.

Fair and CJ have a monopoly on the three point shooting at the forward spots. If both Xmas and Dajuan bring a midpost scoring game (and I hope they do), it will be even tougher on Grant but he will still be a step quicker with a sf/pf's game unlike Rak and Dajuan C/PF one if he is consistant.
James is more of a 2/3 where Fair is more of a Stud 3/4 right now. That leaves a spot for Grant to acompany Fair.

The other option is one I would like to stay away from and thats Dajuan has a rough time defensively and dajuan won't let that happen. Let Grant be Grant though. Hes going to be a leader for us someday. Sometimes you have to get out of your comfort zone for the team. Thats what all leaders do.

 

[CaliCuse]

IMO Grants best shot at getting good minutes come BE is bringing some tough sliding defense/rebounding and most importantly on the offensive end showing some of the mid/high post scoring abiliities of Fair. Becuse, thats not something we will likely see from James.

Fair and CJ have a monopoly on the three point shooting at the forward spots. If both Xmas and Dajuan bring a midpost scoring game (and I hope they do), it will be even tougher on Grant but he will still be a step quicker with a sf/pf's game unlike Rak and Dajuan C/PF one if he is consistant.
James is more of a 2/3 where Fair is more of a Stud 3/4 right now. That leaves a spot for Grant to acompany Fair.

The other option is one I would like to stay away from and thats Dajuan has a rough time defensively and dajuan won't let that happen. Let Grant be Grant though. Hes going to be a leader for us someday. Sometimes you have to get out of your comfort zone for the team. Thats what all leaders do.

Its very early so I'm thinking thesenext few games will see an emergence for Grant. Cooney as well. The Midway pretty much negated Trevor's game so I think we see far more Sunday.:noidea: