Desko

PhatOrange

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The savy versus on field judgement is something I noted from Htown's post as well. Desko did not used to be this way. He used to let the players go because they made the right decisions. I think it's lower lax IQ and I've often wondered if it's from having too many players from non-traditional lacrosse areas. IDK, just a theory.
 

JeremyCuse

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The savy versus on field judgement is something I noted from Htown's post as well. Desko did not used to be this way. He used to let the players go because they made the right decisions. I think it's lower lax IQ and I've often wondered if it's from having too many players from non-traditional lacrosse areas. IDK, just a theory.
There's definitely a lax IQ problem on the current squad. Not all the players because guys like Bomberry, Voigt, Mellen and others are as clued in as it gets. But certain players continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over not to mention the team issues ie turnovers that continue to haunt. Look no further then the 3-4 crease violations in the 4 th quarter, the long pole shot down 1 late in the 4th, just things you can't have happen in that type of game.
 

UnknownOrange

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To me this is like Baseball before 1969.

Before 1969 baseball was just the top AL team versus the top NL team for the world series. Then came the 2 round format, then in '94 came the wild card round.

Lacrosse truly started to blow up in the mid-00's - With Syracuse's limitations (12.6 available schollies, 65k tuition) the draw that Syracuse used to have (If you played lax, SU was one of THE schools) is not there anymore.

Why not try your luck at Albany, or Loyola, or Denver, or etc etc - now that the game has grown, it's hurt the SUs/Hopkins' of the world.

The same thing happened to the Yankees. They dominated from 1923-1962, winning 20 world series. Now that the playoffs expanded, they've won 7.

The game has grown and Syracuse is a tougher sell these days.
 

longtimefan

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I think talk of age is ridiculous. Maybe you get younger with some recruiters but talk of motivation and X and Os and things like that is stupid. Just look at football coaches. They can motivate. John Danowski is 65. Corrigan has to be 60, Lars Tiffany is early 50's, Andy Shay, Tambroni and Tillman are all 49.

I don't know what Desko's deal is. Are their schemes that awful? IDK. I think he relied on a bunch of Micheal Jordan's over the years and not having those caliber players sort of expose the schemes.

Talk of parity ? Sure talent is spread around more, there's no denying it, but is there really parity ? it doesn't seem to effect a handful of traditional schools.

Teams left right now:

Penn State (sure newbie team but not a newbie coach)
Loyola
Yale
Penn
Virginia
Maryland
Duke
Notre Dame

Same as it ever was if you ask me. And it's like this every year except you don't see Syracuse. And the board is wrought with a bunch of excuses.

Yale, Penn, Duke and Notre Dame - all expensive schools with way more stringent academic standards than Syracuse. Oh and Loyola, MD tuition is higher than Syracuse so there's that to.

I have several coaches I would make a play for (one being Andy Shay) but I'm all in on Dan Chemotti. No better pedigree imo. What he's done at Richmond is remarkable. Played for Messerre and played for John Danowski. In terms of influences it doesn't get any better than that imo. Has a NYS title, has 2 NCAA titles. Was an All-American and played professionally. He's a Syracuse guy.
Re: cost of attendance--

The Ivy League schools basically cover everything, whether you're an athlete or just a run-of the-mill brilliant student. So Yale and Penn (and Cornell and Princeton) are not good examples. Duke and ND are more our peers, but both schools have endowments much larger than SU's. Not to mention ND's golden goose football program, which finances all of their Olympic sports programs at a very high level.
 

Powellfan

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I think talk of age is ridiculous. Maybe you get younger with some recruiters but talk of motivation and X and Os and things like that is stupid. Just look at football coaches. They can motivate. John Danowski is 65. Corrigan has to be 60, Lars Tiffany is early 50's, Andy Shay, Tambroni and Tillman are all 49.

I don't know what Desko's deal is. Are their schemes that awful? IDK. I think he relied on a bunch of Micheal Jordan's over the years and not having those caliber players sort of expose the schemes.

Talk of parity ? Sure talent is spread around more, there's no denying it, but is there really parity ? it doesn't seem to effect a handful of traditional schools.

Teams left right now:

Penn State (sure newbie team but not a newbie coach)
Loyola
Yale
Penn
Virginia
Maryland
Duke
Notre Dame

Same as it ever was if you ask me. And it's like this every year except you don't see Syracuse. And the board is wrought with a bunch of excuses.

Yale, Penn, Duke and Notre Dame - all expensive schools with way more stringent academic standards than Syracuse. Oh and Loyola, MD tuition is higher than Syracuse so there's that to.

I have several coaches I would make a play for (one being Andy Shay) but I'm all in on Dan Chemotti. No better pedigree imo. What he's done at Richmond is remarkable. Played for Messerre and played for John Danowski. In terms of influences it doesn't get any better than that imo. Has a NYS title, has 2 NCAA titles. Was an All-American and played professionally. He's a Syracuse guy.
I like the idea of Chemotti taking over, but I worry that the alums would have no patients for anyone who is not a former Syracuse Lacrosse player. Chemotti may be from Syracuse but he did not go to Syracuse. I can't think of a program who is more heavily invested in the idea of "family" than SU. This reminds of the stupid "Michigan Man" thing with Brady Hoke at Michigan, but it is what it is.

Honestly, the people most invested in the program are former players and if the AD were to move on from Desko, I think it would only be if the alum base had completely soured on him. Where does the lacrosse program rank on Wildhack's list of priorities? Basketball and Football probably take up 90% of his time. I can't imagine that just because people on a message board are upset with the program, that means the AD is as well.

If they do convince him to move on from Desko, I can't imagine a scenario where the replacement isn't signed off on by the Alums and I can't see them not picking someone with ties to the program. Unfortunately the two leaders in that clubhouse have big question marks for me. Gait hasn't been coaching men's lacrosse and Galloway, while getting some big wins each year, hasn't put up anything consistent and I don't think he has led Jacksonville to a tournament appearance.
 

ForCuseSake

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The savy versus on field judgement is something I noted from Htown's post as well. Desko did not used to be this way. He used to let the players go because they made the right decisions. I think it's lower lax IQ and I've often wondered if it's from having too many players from non-traditional lacrosse areas. IDK, just a theory.
I think your theory is partly responsible (players from non-traditional lacrosse areas who possibly had inferior coaching).

The other part of it is lax has become a pay to play youth sport like soccer and hockey. Even though many of the elite club teams have strong coaching staffs, the culture around the club game is increasingly about exposure and showing out.

Not directly in line with being a good teammate and making sound decisions.

I realize good Div I talent evaluators are good at discerning bonehead from selfish but I think the club game produces the best athletes playing lacrosse; not always the most complete players.
 

OrangeXtreme

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I like the idea of Chemotti taking over, but I worry that the alums would have no patients for anyone who is not a former Syracuse Lacrosse player. Chemotti may be from Syracuse but he did not go to Syracuse. I can't think of a program who is more heavily invested in the idea of "family" than SU. This reminds of the stupid "Michigan Man" thing with Brady Hoke at Michigan, but it is what it is.

Honestly, the people most invested in the program are former players and if the AD were to move on from Desko, I think it would only be if the alum base had completely soured on him. Where does the lacrosse program rank on Wildhack's list of priorities? Basketball and Football probably take up 90% of his time. I can't imagine that just because people on a message board are upset with the program, that means the AD is as well.

If they do convince him to move on from Desko, I can't imagine a scenario where the replacement isn't signed off on by the Alums and I can't see them not picking someone with ties to the program. Unfortunately the two leaders in that clubhouse have big question marks for me. Gait hasn't been coaching men's lacrosse and Galloway, while getting some big wins each year, hasn't put up anything consistent and I don't think he has led Jacksonville to a tournament appearance.
There will not be a change until the Stickman's Club wants a change.
 

PhatOrange

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I like the idea of Chemotti taking over, but I worry that the alums would have no patients for anyone who is not a former Syracuse Lacrosse player. Chemotti may be from Syracuse but he did not go to Syracuse. I can't think of a program who is more heavily invested in the idea of "family" than SU. This reminds of the stupid "Michigan Man" thing with Brady Hoke at Michigan, but it is what it is.

Honestly, the people most invested in the program are former players and if the AD were to move on from Desko, I think it would only be if the alum base had completely soured on him. Where does the lacrosse program rank on Wildhack's list of priorities? Basketball and Football probably take up 90% of his time. I can't imagine that just because people on a message board are upset with the program, that means the AD is as well.

If they do convince him to move on from Desko, I can't imagine a scenario where the replacement isn't signed off on by the Alums and I can't see them not picking someone with ties to the program. Unfortunately the two leaders in that clubhouse have big question marks for me. Gait hasn't been coaching men's lacrosse and Galloway, while getting some big wins each year, hasn't put up anything consistent and I don't think he has led Jacksonville to a tournament appearance.
If they literally make it a Syracuse guy as in a Syracuse alumn that's incredibly short sighted and limits the pool of good qualified candidates to basically zero. They might as well hire Sol Bliss who's been running the FCA club program forever. I love John Galloway but you really have to show something. Maybe he'd have had more early success if he were in an area where he could pull top tier kids.

There's literally 4 of the best coaches in the college game out there who grew up playing in Section 3 (incredible really) and I know at least 2 of them were huge Syracuse fans growing up as we all were.
 
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cuse10

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I like the idea of Chemotti taking over, but I worry that the alums would have no patients for anyone who is not a former Syracuse Lacrosse player. Chemotti may be from Syracuse but he did not go to Syracuse. I can't think of a program who is more heavily invested in the idea of "family" than SU. This reminds of the stupid "Michigan Man" thing with Brady Hoke at Michigan, but it is what it is.

Honestly, the people most invested in the program are former players and if the AD were to move on from Desko, I think it would only be if the alum base had completely soured on him. Where does the lacrosse program rank on Wildhack's list of priorities? Basketball and Football probably take up 90% of his time. I can't imagine that just because people on a message board are upset with the program, that means the AD is as well.

If they do convince him to move on from Desko, I can't imagine a scenario where the replacement isn't signed off on by the Alums and I can't see them not picking someone with ties to the program. Unfortunately the two leaders in that clubhouse have big question marks for me. Gait hasn't been coaching men's lacrosse and Galloway, while getting some big wins each year, hasn't put up anything consistent and I don't think he has led Jacksonville to a tournament appearance.
Men's lacrosse is a program that's synonymous with Syracuse. How would it not draw some concern? Despite basketball's recent history, they made two Final Fours since 2013 in a sport that's much harder to do so with arguably less talent and people still want Boeheim to step down sooner than later.
 

SDCuse114

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If they literally make it a Syracuse guy as in a Syracuse alumn that's incredibly short sighted and limits the pool of good qualified candidates to basically zero. They might as well hire Sol Bliss who's been running the FCA club program forever. I love John Galloway but you really have to show something. Maybe he'd have had more early success if he were in an area where he could pull top tier kids.

There's literally 4 of the best coaches in the college game out there who grew up playing in Section 3 (incredible really) and I know at least 2 of them were huge Syracuse fans growing up as we all were.
Good point phatorange. Being an SU alum as a requirement severely limits your choices for possible future coaching candidates. Having central N.Y. ties makes more sense, but even that shouldn’t be a mandatory requirement. If I were Wildhack I would want the best available candidate. Whether that is a current head coach at another school, an up and coming assistant, or even dipping into the D3 or even D2 ranks.

One name to keep an eye on is Mike Abbott at Penn. He is the older brother of Matt Abbott and is currently Penn’s offensive coach. Penn’s offense is currently ranked third in the country in goals per game and from what I’ve seen, pretty formidable. Abbott’s resume is impressive and his coaching career has an upward trajectory so I’m assuming his goal is to be a head coach in the near future.
 

Hoo's That

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{snip}
Lot's of good points made in this thread:
{snip}
  • Agree, there are giants who may eventually add Lax (SEC type schools)
{snip}
Have to disagree here. Title IX is a significant obstacle to having many P5 schools start MLax teams. We may get onesies and twosies (like Utah this year), but few non-STEM schools can even think of adding teams. Florida State has been rumored to be ready to go for several years now, with no movement in sight. Stanford can afford to do anything it wants, but Title IX keeps MLax a club.
 

Troughin'

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Whether it's really all Desko's fault or not, sometimes you just need a big change to jump start things. I for one would love to see Ryan Powell eventually step in. I had never really heard him talk until this year, but holy crap, do he know (today's) game inside and out- predicting things before they happened, honing in on specific weaknesses, etc. The guy is a student of the game and obviously has the name recognition that could help with recruiting. He's young, so may be more in-tune with the players. If we can just do something about the Nyquil voice...
 

Newhouse_83

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Title IX is a significant obstacle to having many P5 schools start MLax teams. We may get onesies and twosies (like Utah this year), but few non-STEM schools can even think of adding teams. Florida State has been rumored to be ready to go for several years now, with no movement in sight. Stanford can afford to do anything it wants, but Title IX keeps MLax a club.
Title IX is an obstacle for some. It's not for the schools I mentioned, and we probably could add Georgia to those three.

That said, we can't just conclude, absent evidence, that Title IX is the reason Stanford hasn't launched a program -- it could be related to concerns about recruiting and game travel and scheduling costs until California/Oregon/Arizona schools achieve critical mass. And to assume that "Florida State has been rumored to be ready to go" + "no FSU program" = "Title IX issues" is a reach, at best. Any number of things could be at play -- decisions about a facility, hiring the right coaches, etc.

Also, there's an assumption that the landscape doesn't change unless all or most of the conference starts playing lacrosse (apologies if I'm putting words in anyone's mouth, but it sure reads that way). One major P5 school jumping in, especially if it's in a current or soon-to-be recruiting hotbed, changes the equation significantly for a number of reasons. If Texas launches a program, a number of kids who aren't totally crazy about football or whose parents are fearful of CTE or whose families struggle financially are gonna put down the pigskin and pick up a vulcanized rubber ball.
 

PhatOrange

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Good point phatorange. Being an SU alum as a requirement severely limits your choices for possible future coaching candidates. Having central N.Y. ties makes more sense, but even that shouldn’t be a mandatory requirement. If I were Wildhack I would want the best available candidate. Whether that is a current head coach at another school, an up and coming assistant, or even dipping into the D3 or even D2 ranks.

One name to keep an eye on is Mike Abbott at Penn. He is the older brother of Matt Abbott and is currently Penn’s offensive coach. Penn’s offense is currently ranked third in the country in goals per game and from what I’ve seen, pretty formidable. Abbott’s resume is impressive and his coaching career has an upward trajectory so I’m assuming his goal is to be a head coach in the near future.
I haven't dug through this stuff with a fine tooth comb but Mike Abbott is intriguing.
 

PhatOrange

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I don't know how far back you go when discussing parity but when you look at the final fours since 2010 it's many of the same traditional and/or the same traditional coaches like Tambroni and Tierney.

The traditional schools/coaches account for 27 of the 36 final four spots ??

2018 duke /maryland / yale / albany

2017 maryland / denver / ohio state / towson

2016 maryland / brown / unc / loyola

2015 notre dame / denver/ maryland / johns hopkins

2014 duke / denver / notre dame / maryland

2013 syracuse / denver / cornell / duke

2012 loyola /notre dame /duke / maryland

2011 maryland / duke / denver/ virginia

2010 virginia / duke / notre dame / cornell

Maryland - 7
Duke - 6
Denver - 5
Notre Dame - 4
Loyola - 2
Virginia - 2
Cornell - 2
Yale - 1
Albany - 1
Ohio State - 1
Towson - 1
Brown - 1
UNC - 1
Johns Hopkins - 1
Syracuse - 1
 
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Laxwizard22

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Good point phatorange. Being an SU alum as a requirement severely limits your choices for possible future coaching candidates. Having central N.Y. ties makes more sense, but even that shouldn’t be a mandatory requirement. If I were Wildhack I would want the best available candidate. Whether that is a current head coach at another school, an up and coming assistant, or even dipping into the D3 or even D2 ranks.

One name to keep an eye on is Mike Abbott at Penn. He is the older brother of Matt Abbott and is currently Penn’s offensive coach. Penn’s offense is currently ranked third in the country in goals per game and from what I’ve seen, pretty formidable. Abbott’s resume is impressive and his coaching career has an upward trajectory so I’m assuming his goal is to be a head coach in the near future.
Really interesting point about Abbot. Seems to have done very well at Colgate, and off to a fantastic start at Penn obviously. Also was apart of that 2009 Cortland championship as well
 

orangecuse

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Yep with all of 1 national championship in the last 40 years... not too mention they will have to get by UVA next weekend 1st.
Doesn't change the fact that if they beat UVA (which I think IMO is probable) it will be their 6th straight trip to Final Four Weekend. That's the main premise that we have been arguing anyways for the most part, that with all the parity, growth of the game, etc. they are still managing in getting it done.

Interesting that you want to single out 1 Championship in 40 years, well that sounds all too familiar, as I know another team nearby with 1 championship in 40 years. But hey, they did get to a Final Four twice in the past 6 years...yet let's be dismissive of 5 straight (likley 6) by UM in lax because of no titles.
 

HSPORANGE

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Doesn't change the fact that if they beat UVA (which I think IMO is probable) it will be their 6th straight trip to Final Four Weekend. That's the main premise that we have been arguing anyways for the most part, that with all the parity, growth of the game, etc. they are still managing in getting it done.

Interesting that you want to single out 1 Championship in 40 years, well that sounds all too familiar, as I know another team nearby with 1 championship in 40 years. But hey, they did get to a Final Four twice in the past 6 years...yet let's be dismissive of 5 straight (likley 6) by UM in lax because of no titles.
Like I said lets see if they can knock off UVA first. I'm not sure why you see Maryland upsetting UVA as probable? Maryland had a rough stretch prior to hiring Tillman.

Lets be honest here, If Desko had made 5 or 6 Final fours in a row and only had 1 title to show for it, you would not be pleased at all.

You can bend your argument any way you want to fit a certain narrative. And you really can't compare the difficulty in making the Final Four in basketball to lacrosse. Many more D1 basketball teams.
 

dollarbill44

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Title IX is an obstacle for some. It's not for the schools I mentioned, and we probably could add Georgia to those three.

That said, we can't just conclude, absent evidence, that Title IX is the reason Stanford hasn't launched a program -- it could be related to concerns about recruiting and game travel and scheduling costs until California/Oregon/Arizona schools achieve critical mass. And to assume that "Florida State has been rumored to be ready to go" + "no FSU program" = "Title IX issues" is a reach, at best. Any number of things could be at play -- decisions about a facility, hiring the right coaches, etc.

Also, there's an assumption that the landscape doesn't change unless all or most of the conference starts playing lacrosse (apologies if I'm putting words in anyone's mouth, but it sure reads that way). One major P5 school jumping in, especially if it's in a current or soon-to-be recruiting hotbed, changes the equation significantly for a number of reasons. If Texas launches a program, a number of kids who aren't totally crazy about football or whose parents are fearful of CTE or whose families struggle financially are gonna put down the pigskin and pick up a vulcanized rubber ball.
Where is lax cheaper to play than football?
 

HRE Otto IV

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I don't know how far back you go when discussing parity but when you look at the final fours since 2010 it's many of the same traditional and/or the same traditional coaches like Tambroni and Tierney.

The traditional schools/coaches account for 27 of the 36 final four spots ??

2018 duke/maryland/yale/albany

2017 maryland/denver/ohio state/towson

2016 maryland/brown/unc/loyola

2015 notre dame/denver/maryland/johns hopkins

2014 duke/denver/notre dame/maryland

2013 syracuse/denver/cornell/duke

2012 loyola/notre dame/duke/maryland

2011 maryland/duke/denver/virginia

2010 virginia/duke/notre dame/cornell

Maryland - 7
Duke - 6
Denver - 5
Notre Dame - 4
Loyola - 2
Virginia - 2
Cornell - 2
Yale - 1
Albany - 1
Ohio State - 1
Towson - 1
Brown - 1
UNC - 1
Johns Hopkins - 1
Syracuse - 1
Which is why the parity excuse is BS. Even without a title we should be Top 5 in Final Fours not at best tied for 8th.
 

OttoMets

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Good point phatorange. Being an SU alum as a requirement severely limits your choices for possible future coaching candidates. Having central N.Y. ties makes more sense, but even that shouldn’t be a mandatory requirement. If I were Wildhack I would want the best available candidate. Whether that is a current head coach at another school, an up and coming assistant, or even dipping into the D3 or even D2 ranks.

One name to keep an eye on is Mike Abbott at Penn. He is the older brother of Matt Abbott and is currently Penn’s offensive coach. Penn’s offense is currently ranked third in the country in goals per game and from what I’ve seen, pretty formidable. Abbott’s resume is impressive and his coaching career has an upward trajectory so I’m assuming his goal is to be a head coach in the near future.
Mike's a Syracuse guy, too - went to Nottingham. He knows the program.
 

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