Devil's advocacy for Babers that I'm not sure I believe

[Millhouse]

When did we ever have the kind of depth that made us competitive with good teams after significant injuries?

We can fire Babers but who is going to successfully recruit good players to Syracuse to sit until someone gets injured? Especially now that it's so easy to transfer somewhere you know you can get on the field.

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I don't know how you measure the impact of injuries during his tenure and compare to comparable programs. If the injuries and lack of depth are his fault and something that a new coach would reasonably be expected to fix, switch.

Babers swing and miss not recruiting over Devito hurt him but could anyone really blame him for that at the time?

My concern about babers is he can't even recruit starters that well, much less reserves.

 

[CanadianSU]

There needs to be a shift in focus from undersized players who have “heart” to at least some semblance of an ACC football player in terms of strength and size.

 

[Chris02M]

i dont think dino is in jeopardy this year. He did what was asked this year make a bowl game, next year will be similar. Something is wrong betwen the offense and just strength an coditioning that needs to be loked at

 

[Chris02M]

There needs to be a shift in focus from undersized players who have “heart” to at least some semblance of an ACC football player in terms of strength and size.

we need to embrace the portal until w can recruit better

 

[MadNY3]

When did we ever have the kind of depth that made us competitive with good teams after significant injuries?

We can fire Babers but who is going to successfully recruit good players to Syracuse to sit until someone gets injured? Especially now that it's so easy to transfer somewhere you know you can get on the field.

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I don't know how you measure the impact of injuries during his tenure and compare to comparable programs. If the injuries and lack of depth are his fault and something that a new coach would reasonably be expected to fix, switch.

Babers swing and miss not recruiting over Devito hurt him but could anyone really blame him for that at the time?

My concern about babers is he can't even recruit starters that well, much less reserves.

I don’ think Babers will get fired from Syracuse.

I think his swan-song will be in the not-getting-the-contract-renewed club leaving him to leave after 2023 or whatever, leaving it to Tony White to get promoted.

My sense is the major programs at Syracuse will be resourced pretty solidly in the future, but not spectacularly. And the latter very much related to head coach salaries. Finish in the top 25-50% in MBB and Football meets “consistently good” and higher than that defines “occasionally great.” (Perhaps football wise, the bar lowers to in-season accomplishments…I’m being slightly sarcastic.)

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yeah, I can't.

 

[dollarbill44]

My concern with Dino is that he is playing guys who are medically cleared but not physically able to perform at a level where they can help. GS was about 50 to 60 percent last night (same as the last couple games he's played). It hampered more than his running, it also impacts his ability to throw accurately. It also seems to be messing with his ability to make the right read on the RRO plays probably because he doesn't trust his ability to get through the LOS.

Tucker just doesn't have the speed and shiftiiness he needs to make up for the lack of holes. He is not at the same level he was physically last year or early in the Louisville game.

Injuries happen to every team. I think if he had sat these two earlier in the season until they were healthy, we would be having more success now. It isn't fair to those guys, the team or the fans.

 

[Millhouse]

My concern with Dino is that he is playing guys who are medically cleared but not physically able to perform at a level where they can help. GS was about 50 to 60 percent last night (same as the last couple games he's played). It hampered more than his running, it also impacts his ability to throw accurately. It also seems to be messing with his ability to make the right read on the RRO plays probably because he doesn't trust his ability to get through the LOS.

Tucker just doesn't have the speed and shiftiiness he needs to make up for the lack of holes. He is not at the same level he was physically last year or early in the Louisville game.

Injuries happen to every team. I think if he had sat these two earlier in the season until they were healthy, we would be having more success now. It isn't fair to those guys, the team or the fans.

I think it's related to depth too. hard to recruit depth when you're getting killed and it's still the same guys every play. boeheim goes deeper into his bench voluntarily

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I'm furious we are going through the same sshit with Shrader that we did last year when the team was nowhere near competitive at the end and he could barely walk.

Dino will probably do the same exact thing next year when he has high ankle sprains a couple weeks into the season.

 

[tbonezone]

i'd say depth is an issue. i looked at the box early first half and the only names on offense were shredder, tucker and gadsden. i'm sure no DC in the ACC game planned for those three. we know 2 are banged up.
ride your horses hard and put them up wet catches up down the trail. JB and dino should know this by now.

 

[phil77]

He had enough time to build up Talent and Depth he hasn't done it

 

[qdawgg]

But we have RB depth and don’t use it, don’t even attempt to see if they can do okay. It makes no sense. Every other position has no depth to play in the ACC or even enough starters that would play on any other ACC team.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Our depth on D is pretty good. The issue is our starters on O aren't good enough, not depth.

The OL is not good. We know that we can be better (see what Marrone left Shafer in 2013).

We also know that we can get an impact WR and or a bunch of solid WRs here. It wasn't too long ago that we were throwing to AET, Ish, Irv, Estime, and Riley.

IMO we really need a guy like 2012 Marrone as HC to have sustained success. An OL guy who can identify HS OLmen and coach them up. A guy willing to have a modern O, unlike Dazzler. A guy who can connect with Northeast HS coaches. A guy who can out gameplan his opponent.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

He had enough time to build up Talent and Depth he hasn't done it

Apart from DL where don't we have depth? We have plenty at LB and DB we've had injuries and the guys behind the starters are good.

Our backup WRs who are buried and typically given no chance are better than the starters. For whatever reason they want to give Jackson and Cooper the run. QB the only time the last 4 games we looked good was CDRW 2nd half against Notre Dame and he did better @ Pitt than GS did last night. The backup RB looked good when he played but there were weeks he didn't have a single carry.

TE is thin like DL. 2 positions plenty of 'depth' every where else from my angle we just don't use it. Bench the other 4 starting OL other than Bergeron and I bet the line improves.

 

[PhatOrange]

My biggest issue with Babers are your first two paragraphs. We’ve never had that kind of depth in our history but we competed with Pasqualoni, and Marrone. We competed with the teams on our schedule. Many coaches out there can compete with less. Outside of Clemson and FSU, I don’t think the ACC is so daunting we can’t.

His lack of use of the backups (on offense) is exactly why we don’t have any depth.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think it's related to depth too. hard to recruit depth when you're getting killed and it's still the same guys every play. boeheim goes deeper into his bench voluntarily

We have an ESPN 300 guy as the backup QB.

We don't need to keep Weekend at Bernie's: The College Yearsing Shrader.

 

[FrancoPizza]

We’ll never have elite depth but the starters need to be gamers. We never had good depth in the 90s, but we had NFL talent at key positions.

 

[tptcuse]

We have an ESPN 300 guy as the backup QB.

We don't need to keep Weekend at Bernie's: The College Yearsing Shrader.

We literally didn’t recruit backup defensive linemen, because we only wanted “starters.” The whole thing is mind boggling.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We literally didn’t recruit backup defensive linemen, because we only wanted “starters.” The whole thing is mind boggling.

I somewhat get that. If Lockett is healthy we're probably fine on the DL.

 

[OrangeFoo]

For a supposed offensive guru… Babers offenses have been pretty offensive. His scheme has been so terrible that his boss made him turn the keys over to someone else. He hasn’t been able to develop a single wide receiver or tight end in 7 years and counting. Tucker will be the first offensive player I can remember that Dino recruited, developed and will get drafted. His QBs always get hurt because the only way his offense has a shot is if the qb is the second coming of Josh Allen. His oline makes the Washington Generals look like a competent squad.

Given how good the defense has generally been… If he could produce even a below average offense he would have multiple bowl games.

In short Dino causes his own problems and doesn’t deserve the massive paycheck he’s getting. I see very little evidence of this changing… the offense was good for one and half games this year against legit opponents. That’s not good enough.

 

[tptcuse]

I somewhat get that. If Lockett is healthy we're probably fine on the DL.

I don’t get it at all. There are always injuries.

 

[DPCuse]

We had opportunities to sit our starters even if it was for a few drives (Louisville, UConn and Wagner) but didn’t. Those extra plays add up. Could we have finished that Clemson game and gotten the win if we had done that? Who knows. But when you don’t have depth, you need to manage your roster differently. Dino seems to double down on the starters and wear them down.

 

[kcsu]

My concern with Dino is that he is playing guys who are medically cleared but not physically able to perform at a level where they can help. GS was about 50 to 60 percent last night (same as the last couple games he's played). It hampered more than his running, it also impacts his ability to throw accurately. It also seems to be messing with his ability to make the right read on the RRO plays probably because he doesn't trust his ability to get through the LOS.

Tucker just doesn't have the speed and shiftiiness he needs to make up for the lack of holes. He is not at the same level he was physically last year or early in the Louisville game.

Injuries happen to every team. I think if he had sat these two earlier in the season until they were healthy, we would be having more success now. It isn't fair to those guys, the team or the fans.

Spot on. Dino is very slow to make any changes. Allen looked twice as fast as tucker yesterday and Shrader is a shadow of himself.

 

[Millhouse]

My biggest issue with Babers are your first two paragraphs. We’ve never had that kind of depth in our history but we competed with Pasqualoni, and Marrone. We competed with the teams on our schedule. Many coaches out there can compete with less. Outside of Clemson and FSU, I don’t think the ACC is so daunting we can’t.

His lack of use of the backups (on offense) is exactly why we don’t have any depth.

I wonder if Clemson cripples us physically

A lot of this is strength of schedule related but (I'm just eyeballing here, math could be off)

We are 22-15 before playing clemson
12-26 after playing them.
I'm not including the clemson results there (1-6 in those games)

There was no one in the big east like that, i know we played big programs early

 

[Millhouse]

We had opportunities to sit our starters even if it was for a few drives (Louisville, UConn and Wagner) but didn’t. Those extra plays add up. Could we have finished that Clemson game and gotten the win if we had done that? Who knows. But when you don’t have depth, you need to manage your roster differently. Dino seems to double down on the starters and wear them down.

Totally agree.