Dickie V, "Syracuse might be the best team

[Townie72]

Comparing this team in December to last year's team in March is not a fair comparison or even a useful comparison.

When you compare this years team in December to last year's team in December you see that this year's team is better across the board.

It certainly does not mean they will go undefeated or even have post season success (where there is a large amount of luck involved) but it does mean they are among the best teams in the country right now, which is all anybody said.

I'll re-make my point. The success of this team will be tied to the progress and contributions of Fair and Grant and not Ennis and Cooney.

While I am super-happy about our record thus year and surprised at the play of Cooney and Ennis, I am deeply concerned that Fair and Grant aren't taking over games. They are our best players. Fair is the pre-season ACC Player of the Year". He has been described as a "Match up Nightmare". Where is the dominance that suggests? Grant has more athletic ability that Christmas or Keita will ever have.

If we are still depending on the guards at the end of February, we will be looking at early December as "the good old days". And no one will be suggesting that SU is one of the best teams in the Nation.

 

[Eric15]

I'll re-make my point. The success of this team will be tied to the progress and contributions of Fair and Grant and not Ennis and Cooney.

While I am super-happy about our record thus year and surprised at the play of Cooney and Ennis, I am deeply concerned that Fair and Grant aren't taking over games. They are our best players. Fair is the pre-season ACC Player of the Year". He has been described as a "Match up Nightmare". Where is the dominance that suggests? Grant has more athletic ability that Christmas or Keita will ever have.

If we are still depending on the guards at the end of February, we will be looking at early December as "the good old days". And no one will be suggesting that SU is one of the best teams in the Nation.

In fairness, in by far our biggest test of the year so far (vs. Baylor), CJ completely took over the final 10 minutes and made 4 or 5 critical jumpers when Baylor had narrowed the lead.

But I agree with you that inside low-post scoring when the jumpers aren't falling still is a weakness of this team and has been since AO and Rick Jackson left.

 

[Townie72]

In fairness, in by far our biggest test of the year so far (vs. Baylor), CJ completely took over the final 10 minutes and made 4 or 5 critical jumpers when Baylor had narrowed the lead.

But I agree with you that inside low-post scoring when the jumpers aren't falling still is a weakness of this team and has been since AO and Rick Jackson left.

You are correct.

And that makes my point. I guess I should have said they haven't consistently taken over games like they are going to have to when the outside shots aren't falling. Or when we aren't shooting 90% from the line a a team.

I'd have to re-watch the films --- maybe with someone more technically aware than I am --- but it occurs to me that the success of the guards so far this year may be because opposing coaches are so worried about Fair beating them.

 

[realorange]

Think about what you are saying. Do you really believe that? Does that make sense to you?

Are Cooney and Ennis the best guard tandem in College Basketball?

They have played very, very well. They have been a huge surprise. But when we get to the ACC schedule, the surprise will be over.

The polls do what the polls do. They are fundamentally-flawed.

In order for this team to be very good, our two best players --- Fair and Grant --- have to establish themselves in games. I really haven't seen that consistently.

Townie is right on this. Either that or we're going to need better play in the middle. We aren't going to see the numbers we've been getting from Ennis and Cooney every night. Somebody is going to need to step up.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone, but how much "inside game" did we have last year, on a team that was a possession away from the nat champ game?

we had a 6'6 pg who could get to the rim at will...that was enough inside scoring for us.

 

[longislandcuse]

Think about what you are saying. Do you really believe that? Does that make sense to you?

Are Cooney and Ennis the best guard tandem in College Basketball?

They have played very, very well. They have been a huge surprise. But when we get to the ACC schedule, the surprise will be over.

The polls do what the polls do. They are fundamentally-flawed.

In order for this team to be very good, our two best players --- Fair and Grant --- have to establish themselves in games. I really haven't seen that consistently.

Oh yes, the "vaunted" ACC schedule, where everyone outside of UNC and Duke is mediocre. We already beat the 3rd best team on our schedule in Baylor and will play the 4th toughest OOC against Nova.

Exactly which teams are going to bring Cooney and Ennis back down to Earth, since you apparently aren't a believer that they just might be this good.

 

[General20]

I'd have to re-watch the films --- maybe with someone more technically aware than I am --- but it occurs to me that the success of the guards so far this year may be because opposing coaches are so worried about Fair beating them.

I'd attribute the success of the guards to each other more than to our forwards. If you look at our last couple of guard tandems (Jardine and Waiters, and MCW and Trich) they had pretty similar skill sets and could be guarded the same way.

Ennis and Cooney have very different skill sets so they open things up for each other. When teams play a zone or a soft man Cooney absolutely kills them. When teams play a hard pressure D Ennis has absolutely kills them. Its difficult to shut both down.

As an added bonus, in the last four games or so Ennis has been hitting shots against zones and Cooney has shot lights out even against really tight man D, so they've both played extremely well in pretty much every game. I'm not sure this will continue, and I'm not sure it has to. I do expect teams to have a difficult, if not downright impossible, time shutting both guards down at the same time.

The same is true of our forwards. Duke is the only team we play this year with two defenders of similar size and athleticism to Fair and Grant. That means at least one will have a mismatch in every game. Going forward, I hope and expect whoever gets the mismatch (it will usually be Grant) to put up big numbers.

 

[ORRange]

Most fans are concerned about this years defense and rightfully so. But this years offense is much better and it took awhile last year to play terrific defense. Let's not forget how Temple shredded us early last year.

 

[bnoro]

Come on guys, take it easy on Dicky V. Is he loud and obnoxious? Yes. But by literally all accounts he's an unbelievably friendly and charitable person - and without question there is no single person more important to the increase in popularity of college basketball over the past 30 years than him.

Charity work doesn't mean he's a good announcer. And there are absolutely far more people important to the increase in popularity of college basketball, they are called coaches and players.

 

[Knicks411]

Oh yes, the "vaunted" ACC schedule, where everyone outside of UNC and Duke is mediocre. We already beat the 3rd best team on our schedule in Baylor and will play the 4th toughest OOC against Nova.

Exactly which teams are going to bring Cooney and Ennis back down to Earth, since you apparently aren't a believer that they just might be this good.

Pitt is pretty good, to be fair. Not sure if they are better than Baylor though. @Pitt will be tougher than Baylor in Maui though, if you ask me. (Pomeroy loves both Nova and Pitt, for whatever that is worth)

 

[Eric15]

And there are absolutely far more people important to the increase in popularity of college basketball, they are called coaches and players.

Which single coach or player would you say individually did more for the popularity of college basketball?

 

[HakAttack]

Which single coach or player would you say individually did more for the popularity of college basketball?

One could make a strong case for Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. That 79' final changed college basketball (and subsequently the NBA) forever.

 

[Eric15]

One could make a strong case for Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. That 79' final changed college basketball (and subsequently the NBA) forever.

Sorry, you have to pick one. Vitale is one person.

 

[HakAttack]

Sorry, you have to pick one. Vitale is one person.

Then out of the two I go with Magic Johnson. He got the better of Bird that day and was 2-1 head to head against Bird in the NBA finals too.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Hey, how about our boy Luis Suarez?

By far the most impressive player in the premiership thus far, and seems the finally have his temper under control. Shame it took so long because many have written him off and refuse to pay attention to how great he's been.

That said, injuries are piling up and he/we need sturridge back for his finishi g and so saurez doesn't get run ragged. 4-1 was a great result v the hammers butanyone that watched could see another 2 or 3 goals there with sturridge there instead of sterling.

 

[Townie72]

Oh yes, the "vaunted" ACC schedule, where everyone outside of UNC and Duke is mediocre. We already beat the 3rd best team on our schedule in Baylor and will play the 4th toughest OOC against Nova.

Exactly which teams are going to bring Cooney and Ennis back down to Earth, since you apparently aren't a believer that they just might be this good.

The rest of the ACC might not be all that good, but I'll guarantee you they are well-coached. They will try and force us to do what we don't like to do. And they will try and take away from us what we are good at.

Do I think Cooney is going to continue shoot 50% from behind the arc? Nope.

I watched Gonzaga last night come from behind against WVU. When they were 10 down they had been shooting 25% from 3 point range. Outside shooting, by its very nature, is erratic. It varies and ours will too. Teams that depend upon it lose a lot of games.

Teams that can reliable get inside scoring win most of theirs. This is pretty fundamental stuff, right?

 

[Eric15]

Then out of the two I go with Magic Johnson. He got the better of Bird that day and was 2-1 head to head against Bird in the NBA finals too.

While I respect that argument, I just don't think you can compare Magic's 2 years playing college hoops to Vitale's 35 years as essentially the face of broadcasting for the entire sport.

 

[Orangeyes]

We as Syracuse fans seem to get real high on early season success, me included.

I just reeled myself back in after thinking about how other seasons have started and ended.

The scenario repeats itself, other, more highly rated teams fall, then fall again and in some cases fall again early.

We win, win and win.

Then January comes and at some point we lose and skid a bit and suddenly look average.

Some years we recover and make a good run, some years we don't.

Then at the end of the year one of those schools who was losing early gets hot, like say a Louisville and ends up winning it all.

Not trying to damper enthusiasm just trying to keep it real.

Suspensions and injuries have bitten us in the past, Fab Melo, AO and just last year the uncertainty of James Southerland's situation which would have put a serious monkey wrench in our post season aspirations.

This season we have struggled in several games Cornell 1st half, Colgate 1st 13 minutes, St. Francis the whole game, Minnesota most of the game (they were minus a good big man & their other big got in foul trouble) Cal first 29 minutes (they too were minus a good big man) Baylor we won by single digits.

One advantage this team has had over most is our experience. Two players Tyler Ennis, he plays like a senior and Michael Gbinije are new to the system.

When teams like Kansas, Kentucky and Duke get to tournament time they will be more on an equal footing as far as experience goes with their young super stars.

Being ranked #2 now means nothing when it comes to April.

Here's hoping we stay healthy and our academics and compliance don't become issues.

All of that said I love this team, it's potential and the respect we are getting.

This is a cautionary tale.

 

[HakAttack]

While I respect that argument, I just don't think you can compare Magic's 2 years playing college hoops to Vitale's 35 years as essentially the face of broadcasting for the entire sport.

I don't disagree with you. I choose Vitale too. I was just saying that a case could be made for Magic/Bird.

 

[strumpfasaurus]

in 09-10 Rick and AO averaged a combined 19 points and 12 rebounds. I see no reason why Our 3 bigs combined can't average that if they develop just a little bit more.

 

[Townie72]

We as Syracuse fans seem to get real high on early season success, me included.

I just reeled myself back in after thinking about how other seasons have started and ended.

The scenario repeats itself, other, more highly rated teams fall, then fall again and in some cases fall again early.

We win, win and win.

Then January comes and at some point we lose and skid a bit and suddenly look average.

Some years we recover and make a good run, some years we don't.

Then at the end of the year one of those schools who was losing early gets hot, like say a Louisville and ends up winning it all.

Not trying to damper enthusiasm just trying to keep it real.

Suspensions and injuries have bitten us in the past, Fab Melo, AO and just last year the uncertainty of James Southerland's situation which would have put a serious monkey wrench in our post season aspirations.

This season we have struggled in several games Cornell 1st half, Colgate 1st 13 minutes, St. Francis the whole game, Minnesota most of the game (they were minus a good big man & their other big got in foul trouble) Cal first 29 minutes (they too were minus a good big man) Baylor we won by single digits.

One advantage this team has had over most is our experience. Two players Tyler Ennis, he plays like a senior and Michael Gbinije are new to the system.

When teams like Kansas, Kentucky and Duke get to tournament time they will be more on an equal footing as far as experience goes with their young super stars.

Being ranked #2 now means nothing when it comes to April.

Here's hoping we stay healthy and our academics and compliance don't become issues.

All of that said I love this team, it's potential and the respect we are getting.

This is a cautionary tale.

It's all so obvious. And yet there are those amongst us who seemed to have not learned the lessons that history has repeatedly taught us.

Speak modestly ... especially in December. Because it ain't always going to be all that great. We played two teams with their best players out and shot almost 90% from the line in at least one game.

 

[Townie72]

in 09-10 Rick and AO averaged a combined 19 points and 12 rebounds. I see no reason why Our 3 bigs combined can't average that if they develop just a little bit more.

So far this season they are averaging about half that.

 

[Knicks411]

in 09-10 Rick and AO averaged a combined 19 points and 12 rebounds. I see no reason why Our 3 bigs combined can't average that if they develop just a little bit more.

Coleman/Keita/Christmas? Seems unlikely they are ever goign to average 19 points a game.

 

[longtimefan]

Think about what you are saying. Do you really believe that? Does that make sense to you?

Are Cooney and Ennis the best guard tandem in College Basketball?

They have played very, very well. They have been a huge surprise. But when we get to the ACC schedule, the surprise will be over.

The polls do what the polls do. They are fundamentally-flawed.

In order for this team to be very good, our two best players --- Fair and Grant --- have to establish themselves in games. I really haven't seen that consistently.

Certainly some of our fans need to tap the brakes. But, I think there is a lot to like here.

The SU backcourt is not the best in the country, but right now they are playing about as well as any combo anywhere. I would certainly take them over the Harrison twins, for example.

I did not predict the Cooney coming-out, but I (and more than a few others, including the head coach) thought that Ennis would hit the ground running.

I think the Fair inconsistency so far has been due to his changing role. It's not a certainty that he is suited to being "the Man", but he has shown flashes.

We'll know more before the first of the year, as Villanova looks legit.