did we even get close to a high level WR

[bradrayle]

So what about graduate transfers from BG? They would not have to sit out a season. Dieter the WR would fall into this category. I think they have a few players that would apply?

 

[bradrayle]

Hosley is another.

 

[tep624]

SO Marvin Harrison: 41 catches, 813 yards, 7 TD
SO Steve Ishmael: 39 catches, 570 yards, 7 TD

Through two seasons:

Harrison - 43 catches, 836 yards, 7 TD
Ishmael - 66 catches, 985 yards, 10 TD

I realize it's a different era, and Marv is one of the greatest WRs of all-time. But yes...Ishmael is an excellent young receiver. He'll go down very high in the record books at SU assuming he stays here.

For one more comparison: Alec Lemon, our all-time leading receiver

Through two seasons - 61 catches, 692 yards, 5 TD

Keeping in mind, Ish has been catching passes and being thrown to by SEVEN QBs in his two seasons.

The key is the yards, Marv had QB's who were capable of throwing long balls accurately, Ish only did when Dungey was starting. Hunt couldn't hit the broadside of a barn and Mahoney connected on maybe 1 out of 4.

 

[tep624]

So what about graduate transfers from BG? They would not have to sit out a season. Dieter the WR would fall into this category. I think they have a few players that would apply?

I'd have to think there would be some action on that - I'm sure Babers will analyze the roster, incoming recruits, and do the math.

 

[RMH44]

The key is the yards, Marv had QB's who were capable of throwing long balls accurately, Ish only did when Dungey was starting. Hunt couldn't hit the broadside of a barn and Mahoney connected on maybe 1 out of 4.

Plus, Ish isn't nearly the deep threat that MH was. If he had above average speed he'd be all ACC.

 

[OrangeDW]

Statistically speaking, Ish is better through their So. years.

Ish - 66/990/10td
Marv - 43/836/7td

Not a fair thing to compare though because Marvin barely played as a freshman...and if Ish was a freshman on the 92 team, he wouldn't have played either. Different eras of football where we pass much more now...and different eras of SU football, where we were loaded with talent and guys like Harrison had to wait a bit.

 

[Finwad32]

Not a fair thing to compare though because Marvin barely played as a freshman...and if Ish was a freshman on the 92 team, he wouldn't have played either. Different eras of football where we pass much more now...and different eras of SU football, where we were loaded with talent and guys like Harrison had to wait a bit.

That argument goes both ways. Yes it's pass happier now, but, Marvin playing with a much more talented team could be viewed as a benefit for him.

Fair or not, #'s is the only concrete judgement we can make. Ish had to beat our other players the same as Marvin.

 

[OrangeDW]

Plus, Ish isn't nearly the deep threat that MH was. If he had above average speed he'd be all ACC.

A better comparison with Ishmael would be to Mike Williams, due to the closer similarities in talent level in the program(early-mid 90s we were in another galaxy than we are now), and due to more similar number of pass attempts and not being in a freeze option offense.

Ishmael is good, but going by the eye test I'd say Williams was better. Williams would still be a good NFL WR if he had a decent head on his shoulders.

 

[RMH44]

A better comparison with Ishmael would be to Mike Williams, due to the closer similarities in talent level in the program(early-mid 90s we were in another galaxy than we are now), and due to more similar number of pass attempts and not being in a freeze option offense.

Ishmael is good, but going by the eye test I'd say Williams was better. Williams would still be a good NFL WR if he had a decent head on his shoulders.

I'd compare him more to Alec Lemon. Great hands, route runner and blocker. What separates Ish is his ability to go up and get the ball. He's a very physical WR.

I think that Williams, even though he doesn't possess elite speed, is more explosive than Ish...quicker, faster and better hops.

 

[OrangeDW]

That argument goes both ways. Yes it's pass happier now, but, Marvin playing with a much more talented team could be viewed as a benefit for him.

Fair or not, #'s is the only concrete judgement we can make. Ish had to beat our other players the same as Marvin.

Ish didn't have to beat out the same level of players though, like Qadry Ismail and Shelby Hill.

Don't want it to seem like I'm downplaying Ishmael, he's a big time talent and I think he's got a chance to be a future NFL player.

 

[reedny]

You mean in recruiting? We were in the running (I guess still could be) for a big time receiver from NJ, Donald Stewart, but basically stopped recruiting him when we decided we didn't want another WR in the class. At this point he's probably headed to Michigan or Stanford, though.

I can understand letting Stewart go, because we had such a scary vertical passing game and didn't need more speed (?).

 

[OrangeDW]

I can understand letting Stewart go, because we had such a scary vertical passing game and didn't need more speed (?).

Who needs talented WRs when you've got all kinds of scatbacks who only know how to run certain routes and struggle finding the ball when it's thrown their way?

 

[JeremyCuse]

From a distance it made zero sense why we stopped going after more WR. Zero sense.

Been beating that drum for 2 years. Half the recruiting board thought I was nuts but I thought it was clear as day we needed multiple we recruits this year 3 @ least. Talent at wr right now is abysmal outside of Ish and Lewis

 

[anomander]

would this offense get us back in the door with kids who want to go get the deep ball and score TDs?

Their star WR Roger Leewis would be at tOSU right now if he didn't mess up. He's basically a man vs boys right now. I think Ishmael could have a monster season in this offense next season . I think it would increase our likelihood on hanging onto Daewood Davis as well.

 

[anomander]

Been beating that drum for 2 years. Half the recruiting board thought I was nuts but I thought it was clear as day we needed multiple we recruits this year 3 @ least. Talent at wr right now is abysmal outside of Ish and Lewis

And I still agree with you.

We're really going to have to add at least 2 or 3 more WR's this cycle.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

How many passes could Ish catch in a Babers offense? 100?

 

[anomander]

How many passes could Ish catch in a Babers offense? 100?

He must be salivating after being ignored basically for entire halves of games.

Kid deserves it too. Total class act. He never once complained, and even after Shafer left, he never once wavered, or "threatened" to leave like a lot others have insinuated.

 

[tep624]

And I still agree with you.

We're really going to have to add at least 2 or 3 more WR's this cycle.

We do now. We didn't with Lester's offense. Which makes me wonder what happens to the whole Hback concept...

Wonder if Erv just becomes a wideout now.

 

[jekelish]

and even after Shafer left, he never once wavered, or "threatened" to leave like a lot others have insinuated.

...well, not publicly anyway.

 

[anomander]

...well, not publicly anyway.

He wasn't ever going anywhere.