Dino’s preference in terms of QB

[Cuse12]

If I remember correctly, when Dino took over as HC and took on Dungey as his QB the question of if Dino preferred dual threat quarterbacks for his system. I believe his answer was something along the lines of it’s good if the guy can run, but I want someone who can sling it first and foremost.

Now we have someone who can sling it. But, I think Dino might be rethinking his preferences. (This is not a bash Tommy thread at all)

When we had a DT QB we had a ground game. No it was not the typical hand off the ball ground game, but it was a ground game. I think a true DT QB should be a massive priority for Dino recruiting here on out, because of the fact that we have yet to prove we can hand the ball off and effectively run it even with our best line of Dino’s time here (last year).

Overall, we are not BC where we know we will have a good OL so the run game should always be relevant. We are a team who needs a DT QB and an average OL to actually excel with this offense. And of course if we had a dominant OL then none of what I said matters, but seeing we have yet to be close to that in all Dino’s years - I am proposing a realistic solution to help.

Thoughts?

 

[CuseMan4]

If Chance Amie had his Sh@! together and didn’t leave the program, Chance would be the starting QB right now. I think Tommy would have been the starter to start the season but I think we would have seen the switch by now. Now do I think we would be a much better team with Chance at QB, no...but I think he would help offset some of our weaknesses on offense with his legs (similar to Dungey). But that’s not happening obviously but what could have been, dudes gotta be kicking himself right now.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If I remember correctly, when Dino took over as HC and took on Dungey as his QB the question of if Dino preferred dual threat quarterbacks for his system. I believe his answer was something along the lines of it’s good if the guy can run, but I want someone who can sling it first and foremost.

Now we have someone who can sling it. But, I think Dino might be rethinking his preferences. (This is not a bash Tommy thread at all)

When we had a DT QB we had a ground game. No it was not the typical hand off the ball ground game, but it was a ground game. I think a true DT QB should be a massive priority for Dino recruiting here on out, because of the fact that we have yet to prove we can hand the ball off and effectively run it even with our best line of Dino’s time here (last year).

Overall, we are not BC where we know we will have a good OL so the run game should always be relevant. We are a team who needs a DT QB and an average OL to actually excel with this offense. And of course if we had a dominant OL then none of what I said matters, but seeing we have yet to be close to that in all Dino’s years - I am proposing a realistic solution to help.

Thoughts?

I think you're overrating the ground game we had.

We were very poor running the ball the first two years, even with Dungey as a dual threat. You'll be surprised how little rushing yardage Dungey accumulated. It was better the 2nd year but still not awesome.

I hate to say it, but schemewise, I think at the ACC level, our rushing attack is fatally flawed. Sure, a guy like Dungey helps, but even last season it took a while for the ground game to take off, and even then it was decent at best.

 

[upperdeck]

we just need an avg OL.. even sat. had the D played well we score 40.. we passed up like 3-4 Fgs chances because we were chasing pts.. had the oline just played a bit better we score 40+.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If Chance Amie had his Sh@! together and didn’t leave the program, Chance would be the starting QB right now.

His JC stats suggest otherwise.

 

[djorange1989]

His JC stats suggest otherwise.

exactly. the kid is a trainwreck, we can IF it all we want to, IF he had it together he would have stayed, IF he had it together he would be a decent QB at the JC level etc. bottom line: he doesn't have it together, and hopefully he gets it together.

 

[Cuse12]

I think you're overrating the ground game we had.

We were very poor running the ball the first two years, even with Dungey as a dual threat. You'll be surprised how little rushing yardage Dungey accumulated. It was better the 2nd year but still not awesome.

I hate to say it, but schemewise, I think at the ACC level, our rushing attack is fatally flawed. Sure, a guy like Dungey helps, but even last season it took a while for the ground game to take off, and even then it was decent at best.

I don’t think I’m overrating just stating how our best running team was last year with a DT QB. It wasn’t good but it was effective enough to open up plays elsewhere. Dungeys legs made DC have to hesitate. Right now all DC are sleeping better then ever the night before playing us. It’s so simple for them right now. A DT QB at least helps us somewhat with opening up other options on this team.

 

[McNabb2Brominski]

If Chance Amie had his Sh@! together and didn’t leave the program, Chance would be the starting QB right now. I think Tommy would have been the starter to start the season but I think we would have seen the switch by now. Now do I think we would be a much better team with Chance at QB, no...but I think he would help offset some of our weaknesses on offense with his legs (similar to Dungey). But that’s not happening obviously but what could have been, dudes gotta be kicking himself right now.

An underrated loss heading into this season. Needed someone to challenge Tommy for the starting gig. He definitely would’ve seen the field this year.

 

[qdawgg]

DB isn't rethinking what he wants in a QB. The guy has built his career on sticking to what he does, he ain't changing.

 

[FrancoPizza]

What Dino wants and what Dino needs might be 2 different things.

 

[Bulldog04]

Play action and zone reads are what dungey did great that enabled SU to open up the playbook. This is non existent this year Bc Dino doesn’t want tommy running. Without a dual threat, those plays are not going to happen with success. Too predictable

 

[TheCusian]

There’s a lot of ways to be successful at QB. If BC can develop an all ACC running game - we can too.

I think people are picking at “the system” when it should be more about OL coaching and young and/or inexperienced guys on the OL. Tommy has been fine - normal OL and we’d still be seeing his weaknesses - but he’d be throwing for 400 and 3TD a game and we’d be happy.

I’m hoping we can Cav and get the OL fixed as the next priority.

 

[721Comstock]

Play action and zone reads are what dungey did great that enabled SU to open up the playbook. This is non existent this year Bc Dino doesn’t want tommy running. Without a dual threat, those plays are not going to happen with success. Too predictable

RPO with ZERO threat of the QB running, isn't really much of an "option".
It's basically a delayed handoff 99% of the time, and every D we play against knows it.

 

[Millhouse]

we just need an avg OL.. even sat. had the D played well we score 40.. we passed up like 3-4 Fgs chances because we were chasing pts.. had the oline just played a bit better we score 40+.

i don't always see things the way you do, but on this, i couldn't agree with you more.

 

[orangecuse]

Cuse12, in my opinion, I believe Dino very well may need to change his preference. Fact is, SU's greatest successes for the most part have been with dual threats; Graves, McPherson, McNabb, Dungey, etc. Keeping it real, this style will likely remain best suited based upon the talent level of recruits we will be able to lure here, present & into the near future.

Look at the success UVA is having with their dual threat. Now, admittingly I do not know the depths of their talent level relative to recruiting rankings, etc., but I've watched a few of their games this season and it's obvious to me he's a difference maker.

 

[chugg21]

I believe when he took over he ghosted Lindsay Scott and re-recruited Rex. Physical traits between those 2 should probably give some clues as to his preference.

 

[721Comstock]

I believe when he took over he ghosted Lindsay Scott and re-recruited Rex. Physical traits between those 2 should probably give some clues as to his preference.

Yeah, except - they ended up visiting Lindsay, to try to keep him.
But once LSU offered, it was game over.

Not that any of that ended up mattering, per his subsequent college career.
(Or lack thereof).

 

[P Vasiloff]

Cuse12, in my opinion, I believe Dino very well may need to change his preference. Fact is, SU's greatest successes for the most part have been with dual threats; Graves, McPherson, McNabb, Dungey, etc. Keeping it real, this style will likely remain best suited based upon the talent level of recruits we will be able to lure here, present & into the near future.

Look at the success UVA is having with their dual threat. Now, admittingly I do not know the depths of their talent level relative to recruiting rankings, etc., but I've watched a few of their games this season and it's obvious to me he's a difference maker.

Dual threats may cover up some line deficiencies but they are not the magic cure to a bad offense line. Oh and by the way, the quarterback you cite Perkins of UVA is the second most sacked quarterback behind DeVito.

 

[Cuse12]

What Dino wants and what Dino needs might be 2 different things.

Exactly my point. Let’s look at how we had success in the ACC and replicate.

 

[sufandu]

His JC stats suggest otherwise.

I'm not sure you can usually judge much one way or the other on JC stats. The physical tools were there or the staff wouldn't have pursued him so hard and Dungey wouldn't have had the opinion he had. The comment about having his head on straight (or something alomg those lines) can't be overstated. Nobody knows if he would've been a better option than TD, but nobody knows he wouldn't've.

 

[orangecuse]

Dual threats may cover up some line deficiencies but they are not the magic cure to a bad offense line. Oh and by the way, the quarterback you cite Perkins of UVA is the second most sacked quarterback behind DeVito.

Well, I never said they are the "magic cure" only that based upon SU's history, we've had our best success with dual threats, especially based upon the talent we typically land.

And, oh by the way, that quarterback I cited (regardless of being sacked 2nd most to date) has his team at 6-3, with two probable (if not sure thing) wins ahead of them against GT & Liberty, putting them at 8-3 heading into their season finale against annual in state rival RPI.

I'm confident there isn't many (if anyone) here who wouldn't trade places with that record, and the year they're having. With that success, however, you're still free to continue on...apparently choosing to focus on their relatively irrelavent sack count versus the larger picture. As even with that high number, he obviously makes up for it with many more positive plays than negative...so, clearly a positive difference maker.

 

[chugg21]

Yeah, except - they ended up visiting Lindsay, to try to keep him.
But once LSU offered, it was game over.

Not that any of that ended up mattering, per his subsequent college career.
(Or lack thereof).

Certainly could have mattered. Tried to win a starting job at one of the top 10 schools in the country and couldn't. Went to JC and won a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP with crazy stats and was then rated the #1 Juco pro-style QB and got a scholarship to another SEC school where he was behind a guy that went higher in the draft than any QB we've had in 20 years and then Kelly Bryant. Healthy Dungey is the only QB we've had during the last 5 years that I'm comfortable saying was clearly better.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm not sure you can usually judge much one way or the other on JC stats. The physical tools were there or the staff wouldn't have pursued him so hard and Dungey wouldn't have had the opinion he had. The comment about having his head on straight (or something alomg those lines) can't be overstated. Nobody knows if he would've been a better option than TD, but nobody knows he wouldn't've.

Well, what I can judge is he doesn't have many JC stats.

 

[TheCusian]

I believe when he took over he ghosted Lindsay Scott and re-recruited Rex. Physical traits between those 2 should probably give some clues as to his preference.

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd take a lot from all that. DeVito is smaller than ideal but can make all the throws, Amie was a big fast, elusive guy who couldn't throw as well. I think Dino is pretty open to both types.

 

[shu 49]

I think you're overrating the ground game we had.

We were very poor running the ball the first two years, even with Dungey as a dual threat. You'll be surprised how little rushing yardage Dungey accumulated. It was better the 2nd year but still not awesome.

I hate to say it, but schemewise, I think at the ACC level, our rushing attack is fatally flawed. Sure, a guy like Dungey helps, but even last season it took a while for the ground game to take off, and even then it was decent at best.

It is 100 percent. No variation of gaps we hit which lets the 1 and 3 tech get used to the traps coming. After a few times the lineman realize what’s happening. Not to difficult to realize my blocker blocked down so here comes trap.