Dion Cle vs Chi

[moqui]

Not mine. From day 1 I said dion was a star.

As to your comment regarding transferring, dion would have made the NBA no matter where he played. He is a great player whose role on this team wasted his massive talent.

his team went 34-3, earned a #1 seed and went to the Elite 8 . . . the point at which Dion's 20 minute foul limited performance failed the team, not vice versa

(this is not a slam at Dion, it's a reality check for St. Trichehater)

 

[SaintTristan]

his team went 34-3, earned a #1 seed and went to the Elite 8 . . . the point at which Dion's 20 minute foul limited performance failed the team, not vice versa

(this is not a slam at Dion, it's a reality check for St. Trichehater)

Despite of triche. You and your personal insults can have the last word. But myself and the rest of the college hoops world are right.

 

[SteveC]

Despite of triche. You and your personal insults can have the last word. But myself and thebret of the college hoops world are right.

I normally don't say anything buy maaaaan you are full of yourself. No one here is saying Dion isn't a very good to great basketball player. One of the reasons he is very good is because of how Boeheim treated him. If he went to Rutgers in the same condition he started here in and they played him 35 minutes (if he could last that long on the court) a night he would NOT have been the 4th pick in the draft. Even Dion will admit going to Syracuse was great for him, both as a person and as a basketball player.

Also congratulations on having your expectations remain unrealistically high on him even after his not so great freshman year.

 

[br801]

Not mine. From day 1 I said dion was a star.

As to your comment regarding transferring, dion would have made the NBA no matter where he played. He is a great player whose role on this team wasted his massive talent.

As for the stupid comments regarding triche, he is a role player at this level who should have a nice little senior campaign. JB gambled and it paid off.

No big deal in the end as NBA scouts know what they are doing.

Had Dion transferred or declared for the draft after his freshman year, his path to the NBA (and his draft position) would likely have been much different. The history of similar decisions tells us there's a real chance he never would have gotten there.

And only time will tell whether you, NBA scouts and the Cavaliers got it right about Dion at the next level.

 

[Melancer46]

I wonder if people understand how shooting percentage works. Every basketball player who has ever lived is hot and cold from the field some just more than others. 4/4 and 2/9 is 6/13 which is 46% and will win ROY in fact 42% will probably do it. You can pick out 8 bad shooting games out of 37 from any player who ever played. He shot 43.6% in big east play so the highs were highers than the lows.

1. Waiters shot 7/12 in the 4/4 game, so he actually shot about 42% in these two games. Which is not good. At all. Brandon Jennings shoots better than that and almost shoots exclusively 3 pointers and people still say he's just a chucker and is horribly inefficient.

2. In what world is 42% shooting from the field good enough to win rookie of the year? In a draft class where Anthony Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Beal, Harrison Barnes, etc will likely be putting up good numbers. I honestly don't see Waiters as even a top 5 ROTY candidate.

Edit: Actually, Waiters is now shooting 36% in summer league.

 

[Gabjon]

1. Waiters shot 7/12 in the 4/4 game, so he actually shot about 42% in these two games. Which is not good. At all. Brandon Jennings shoots better than that and almost shoots exclusively 3 pointers and people still say he's just a chucker and is horribly inefficient.

2. In what world is 42% shooting from the field good enough to win rookie of the year? In a draft class where Anthony Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Beal, Harrison Barnes, etc will likely be putting up good numbers. I honestly don't see Waiters as even a top 5 ROTY candidate.

03-04 ROY Lebron James FG% .417
05-06 ROY Chris Paul FG% .43
07-08 ROY Kevin Durant FG% .43

Beal is his only real competition for ROY shooting percentage is not as important as points/per which is largely about volume of shots with John Wall injured I think Beal is the favorite to win ROY but if Cleveland is plus 15 in wins and Dion averages 16+ a game he has a shot. Defensive players almost never win ROY.

 

[Melancer46]

03-04 ROY Lebron James FG% .417
05-06 ROY Chris Paul FG% .43
07-08 ROY Kevin Durant FG% .43

Beal is his only real competition for ROY shooting percentage is not as important as points/per which is largely about volume of shots with John Wall injured I think Beal is the favorite to win ROY but if Cleveland is plus 15 in wins and Dion averages 16+ a game he has a shot. Defensive players almost never win ROY.

I don't think Dion will average 16 a game. And I think Barnes is likely to average at least that. To me, the legit candidates are:
Anthony Davis
Harrison Barnes
Bradley Beal
Donatas Motiejunas/Jeremy Lamb (one of them is most likely going to step up, my bets are on Motiejunas)
Jonas Valanciunas
Damian Lillard
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
and then Dion.

But looking at the past rookie of the year winners:
Chris Paul: 43% from the field, 16 points, 8 assists, 5 rebounds, 2 steals. Dion could possibly hit 16 and 2 (I personally don't think he will, but he could), but he won't come anywhere near 8 and 5.
Brandon Roy: 45.6%, 17 points, 4 assists, 4.4 rebounds (Pretty unlikely he'll hit those numbers)
Kevin Durant: 43%, 20 points, 4.4 rebounds (not likely)
Derrick Rose: 47.5%, 17 points, 6.3 assists, 4 rebounds (highly unlikely)
Tyreke Evans: 46%, 19.5 points, 5 rebounds, 5.6 assists (not going to happen)
Blake Griffin: Not gonna bother with the statistics since he's a big man, but the guy was an All-Star and was an absolute beast.
Kyrie Irving: 47%, 18.5 points, 5.4 assists, 3.7 rebounds (not gonna happen).

So yeah, I don't think it's very likely Waiters will win ROTY.

 

[Gabjon]

I don't think Dion will average 16 a game. And I think Barnes is likely to average at least that. To me, the legit candidates are:
Anthony Davis
Harrison Barnes
Bradley Beal
Donatas Motiejunas/Jeremy Lamb (one of them is most likely going to step up, my bets are on Motiejunas)
Jonas Valanciunas
Damian Lillard
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
and then Dion.

But looking at the past rookie of the year winners:
Chris Paul: 43% from the field, 16 points, 8 assists, 5 rebounds, 2 steals. Dion could possibly hit 16 and 2 (I personally don't think he will, but he could), but he won't come anywhere near 8 and 5.
Brandon Roy: 45.6%, 17 points, 4 assists, 4.4 rebounds (Pretty unlikely he'll hit those numbers)
Kevin Durant: 43%, 20 points, 4.4 rebounds (not likely)
Derrick Rose: 47.5%, 17 points, 6.3 assists, 4 rebounds (highly unlikely)
Tyreke Evans: 46%, 19.5 points, 5 rebounds, 5.6 assists (not going to happen)
Blake Griffin: Not gonna bother with the statistics since he's a big man, but the guy was an All-Star and was an absolute beast.
Kyrie Irving: 47%, 18.5 points, 5.4 assists, 3.7 rebounds (not gonna happen).

So yeah, I don't think it's very likely Waiters will win ROTY.

I don't think the rookie class is that good this year but I forgot about Lillard he I will put ahead of Beal and Dion. We will see I think Dion has a very NBA friendly type of game.

 

[Melancer46]

I don't think the rookie class is that good this year but I forgot about Lillard he I will put ahead of Beal and Dion. We will see I think Dion has a very NBA friendly type of game.

Yeah, we'll see. I hope he proves me wrong. I just don't see him being more than a Rodney Stuckey or a good 6th man in the NBA but we'll see.

I think ROTY is likely to end up with Davis, Barnes, or Lillard, unless one of the foreigners surprises everyone (like I said before, Motiejunas or Valanciunas).

 

[Gabjon]

Yeah, we'll see. I hope he proves me wrong. I just don't see him being more than a Rodney Stuckey or a good 6th man in the NBA but we'll see.

I think ROTY is likely to end up with Davis, Barnes, or Lillard, unless one of the foreigners surprises everyone (like I said before, Motiejunas or Valanciunas).

Davis and Barnes won't get the shot attempts. Both play with volume shooting guards Barnes with Curry and Thompson, Davis with Rivers and Gordon. Dion with be one of those volume shooting guards him and Irving will take most of the shots.

 

[Melancer46]

Davis and Barnes won't get the shot attempts. Both play with volume shooting guards Barnes with Curry and Thompson, Davis with Rivers and Gordon. Dion with be one of those volume shooting guards him and Irving will take most of the shots.

1. I feel like Davis is going to have some big time stats as the beneficiary or pick and rolls and offensive rebounding. Not to mention he'll have good rebounding and block numbers. The Hornets are going to give the #1 overall pick his chances.
2. Neither Curry or Thompson are really volume scorers. They're both efficient shooters. Dorrell Wright was able to average 16 a game with Monta Ellis and Curry. I think Barnes is a better scorer than Wright. Every year the Warriors are littered with guys scoring 13+ points per game and they're usually far worse than Barnes. I think he's more than capable of scoring 16-18 a game with them.

 

[Gabjon]

1. I feel like Davis is going to have some big time stats as the beneficiary or pick and rolls and offensive rebounding. Not to mention he'll have good rebounding and block numbers. The Hornets are going to give the #1 overall pick his chances.
2. Neither Curry or Thompson are really volume scorers. They're both efficient shooters. Dorrell Wright was able to average 16 a game with Monta Ellis and Curry. I think Barnes is a better scorer than Wright. Every year the Warriors are littered with guys scoring 13+ points per game and they're usually far worse than Barnes. I think he's more than capable of scoring 16-18 a game with them.

I agree with Davis having a shot but he wants to play the 3 or 4 and he was promised that chance. I think he will struggle with that transition but he will get the benefit of the doubt by voters, but I think Barnes' game will not translate well to the NBA he is not explosive enough.

 

[SaintTristan]

Yeah, we'll see. I hope he proves me wrong. I just don't see him being more than a Rodney Stuckey or a good 6th man in the NBA but we'll see.

Being a 6th man in the NBA is sort of awesome.

 

[orangefan13]

The last 8 games of the season Waiters got...

24 mpg @ uconn, 29 mpg against Ville, 24 mpg against uconn,
32 mpg in the BEt loss to cincy, 30 mpg against unc ashville, 24 against KSU which was a blowout, 27 against Wisconsin,
then only 20 against OSU shooting 25% form the field, but had 2 fouls in 6 minutes in the first half.

Thats 27 mpg for those 7 games before OSU, where he still had his chance putting up 9 points shooting 25%. And immedietly after the 8 games where he shot really bad we listed above.

Thets not act like he didn't get good minutes.
JB's goal is to win each game before making a future potential star look good and he does it with the best of them.

And arguing NBA rookies does not prove he deserved more minutes. First off they are in the NBA where the game changes, is faster, alot more physical, and the court spreads more. Second off they don't have the experience, are not veterans, and the majority left college really early.