Dion Waiters progress compares favorably to some of the greats

[Orangeyes]

"Cleveland Cavaliers
Kevin Hetrick at Cavs: The Blog recaps the Cavaliers' season, including Dion Waiters' improvement.

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"In the 33 games from January 1st until his injury on March 18th, Dion Waiters averaged twenty-points per thirty-six minutes. His PER climbed to 16.3, his Offensive Rating hit 104, with usage of 26.6 (those numbers thanks to the esteemed Randall Cooper of laughingcavs.com). Once Dion quit routinely hoisting off-balance jumpers and instead persistently attacked, his age-21 performance compares reasonably with several other recent guards**.​

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A list includes: James Harden – 16.4 PER, 119 orating, 19.5 usage; Eric Gordon – 14.1 PER, 107 ORtg, 21.5 usage; Russell Westbrook – 17.8 PER, 105 ORtg, 25.7 usage; Dwyane Wade (age 22) – 17.6 PER, 101 ORtg, 25 usage; Jamal Crawford, 15.3 PER, 102 ORtg, 21.5 usage; J.R. Smith – 15.6 PER, 112 ORtg, 22.8 usage. Not saying he will match all of those guys, but the Dion we saw in 2013 performed admirably."​

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A comment on this offering comes from reader Ed Haas who says:​

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"Dion Waiters could end up being a better pick than Kyrie before it's all said and done.​

I wouldn't have said that after the draft or even first couple months of the season, but if he keeps developing? Great pick up for the mostly awful Chris Grant.​

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Kyrie has to stay healthy for a full season and learn how to play even soft defense before I consider him all star quality."​

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http://www.cleveland.com/sportsnetwork/index.ssf/2013/04/five_reasons_for_optimism_with.html​

 

[stuckinbig11]

good stuff

 

[Upstate]

Well, that made me happy

 

[tee1222]

One of my all time Cuse favorites. A scorer with a purpose. Never hesitated, and crazy intensity in getting the ball in the bucket.
Go Dion!

 

[MikeSU02]

There is a very real concern with Kyrie on two fronts: 1) staying healthy and 2) being even an adequate defender.

I know people harp on Melo's D, but his biggest issue is understanding where to be on rotations and help defense. Kyrie has serious issues with on the ball defense which means that he has to really kick butt on the offensive end to make him worthy of being a star.

I love that Dion is understanding where his strengths lie and improving. It shows real maturity.

Depending on where they land in the lottery, Cleveland can have an exciting young team. Not a title team, but an exciting one that is competitive. And obviously they'll make a run for LeBron.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It'll be interesting to see if Dion and Kyrie can play together effectively for Cleveland. There is no doubt they are both extremely talented, but its difficult to play winning basketball if your two top players always need the ball in their hands.

Take Golden State for instance. They traded Monta Ellis because things just didn't mesh with Steph Curry and now they are better. I could see one of them getting traded eventually.

 

[moqui]

I've heard rumors - well, just talk radio speculation, actually - that the Lakers might ask for Dion in a Pau Gasol trade

 

[Gabjon]

I've heard rumors - well, just talk radio speculation, actually - that the Lakers might ask for Dion in a Pau Gasol trade

Why would Cleveland do that deal?

 

[moqui]

Why would Cleveland do that deal?

because you can't sell "hope for the future" forever - you have to give your fan base some wins

the speculation was Varejao, Waiters and some cap filler for Pau - gives the Cavs a quality go-to scorer on an expiring deal, while handing off a bunch of longer term contracts. Makes the Cavs a player again in the big FA market summer 2014 while maintaining a lot of their young talent. Waiters is a sacrifice but with another defensive minded coach coming in, the thought is that they won't want to play Irving and Waiters together and Dion is the more expendable of the two.

Lakers get a young perimeter talent, and Verajao they can amnesty if he's not healthy

but remember this is speculation on a Lakers station that is looking for the best possible outcome for the Lakers

 

[Knicks411]

because you can't sell "hope for the future" forever - you have to give your fan base some wins

the speculation was Varejao, Waiters and some cap filler for Pau - gives the Cavs a quality go-to scorer on an expiring deal, while handing off a bunch of longer term contracts. Makes the Cavs a player again in the big FA market summer 2014 while maintaining a lot of their young talent. Waiters is a sacrifice but with another defensive minded coach coming in, the thought is that they won't want to play Irving and Waiters together and Dion is the more expendable of the two.

Lakers get a young perimeter talent, and Verajao they can amnesty if he's not healthy

but remember this is speculation on a Lakers station that is looking for the best possible outcome for the Lakers

Would be a great deal for the Lakers, with the caveat that I'm about 99% sure you can only amnesty a player you signed, so they couldn't amnesty Andy.

 

[Gabjon]

because you can't sell "hope for the future" forever - you have to give your fan base some wins

the speculation was Varejao, Waiters and some cap filler for Pau - gives the Cavs a quality go-to scorer on an expiring deal, while handing off a bunch of longer term contracts. Makes the Cavs a player again in the big FA market summer 2014 while maintaining a lot of their young talent. Waiters is a sacrifice but with another defensive minded coach coming in, the thought is that they won't want to play Irving and Waiters together and Dion is the more expendable of the two.

Lakers get a young perimeter talent, and Verajao they can amnesty if he's not healthy

but remember this is speculation on a Lakers station that is looking for the best possible outcome for the Lakers

Pau is 32 with knee and foot problems that is not hope and Cleveland doesn't need cap space to sign Lebron, but the Lakers do pull off some amazing deals.

 

[Gabjon]

Would be a great deal for the Lakers, with the caveat that I'm about 99% sure you can only amnesty a player you signed, so they couldn't amnesty Andy.

You are correct sir

 

[OttoinGrotto]

the speculation was Varejao, Waiters and some cap filler for Pau

I get that's from a fairly biased source and all, but good gravy what a terrible deal for the Cavs. Varejao is a highly productive player on a very fair contract, when healthy. Waiters is one of the more interesting young guards in the league with years to go on his rookie deal. Pau's past the point where he can nearly single handedly carry teams into the playoffs, even in the East.

The Cavs should be looking at Verejao and Waiters as part of the solution.

 

[moqui]

Pau is 32 with knee and foot problems that is not hope and Cleveland doesn't need cap space to sign Lebron, but the Lakers do pull off some amazing deals.

Pau has been awesome the last month, even especially in the sweep by the Spurs. Personally, I think the Lakers would be crazy to move him, because he is going to be by far the best offensive player on the team until Kobe comes back (and maybe even after).

If the Lakers really do shop him, he will be in great demand for any team contending (even if they are just contending to get into the playoffs)

The Cavs should be looking at Verejao and Waiters as part of the solution.

Waiters, maybe, Verajao, no.

the argument is that there is concern about Verajao's ability to come back, and about Waiters' ability to play for a defensive minded coach like Mike Brown (especially alongside Irving)

a team led by a trio of Kyrie, Pau and Tristan Thomson should be able to make the playoffs in the East.

 

[Gabjon]

Pau has been awesome the last month, even especially in the sweep by the Spurs. Personally, I think the Lakers would be crazy to move him, because he is going to be by far the best offensive player on the team until Kobe comes back (and maybe even after).

If the Lakers really do shop him, he will be in great demand for any team contending (even if they are just contending to get into the playoffs)


Waiters, maybe, Verajao, no.

the argument is that there is concern about Verajao's ability to come back, and about Waiters' ability to play for a defensive minded coach like Mike Brown (especially alongside Irving)

a team led by a trio of Kyrie, Pau and Tristan Thomson should be able to make the playoffs in the East.

That is short term thinking from the Cleveland perspective. Pau is too old to build around when Kyrie or Tristan are ready to lead the team on both ends of the floor Pau will be retired.

 

[moqui]

That is short term thinking from the Cleveland perspective. Pau is too old to build around when Kyrie or Tristan are ready to lead the team on both ends of the floor Pau will be retired.

the point is that they won't be building around him - he brings two things to the table: talent, plus an expiring deal that maximizes cap space in the free agent Summer of 14, when they can add serious talent to their young core

 

[Knicks411]

But Varejao is an expiring contract as well for the summer of 2014. So they'd just get whatever benefit they would gain by having one year of Gasol and they would lose out on Waiters.

 

[Gabjon]

the point is that they won't be building around him - he brings two things to the table: talent, plus an expiring deal that maximizes cap space in the free agent Summer of 14, when they can add serious talent to their young core

But at the price of a good rookie in the middle of his rookie deal...you will be at the same spot with Dion in the summer of 14 so it makes no sense.

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[Gabjon]

But Varejao is an expiring contract as well for the summer of 2014. So they'd just get whatever benefit they would gain by having one year of Gasol and they would lose out on Waiters.

Exactly! Makes no sense!

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[moqui]

But at the price of a good rookie in the middle of his rookie deal...you will be at the same spot with Dion in the summer of 14 so it makes no sense.

that all depends on what other pieces are involved

again, it was just speculation, but the theory was that (a) Irving/Waiters/Mike Brown alchemy won't work and (b) Pau can help them win games now and (c) still maintain Cav payroll flexibility

I think the Lakers keep Pau, anyway, but the Waiters fans should be lobbying for a deal that brings him to an organization like the Lakers

 

[Knicks411]

For sure it would be good for Dion

 

[Gabjon]

that all depends on what other pieces are involved

again, it was just speculation, but the theory was that (a) Irving/Waiters/Mike Brown alchemy won't work and (b) Pau can help them win games now and (c) still maintain Cav payroll flexibility

I think the Lakers keep Pau, anyway, but the Waiters fans should be lobbying for a deal that brings him to an organization like the Lakers

I hear you but I waiters to come to NY there are concerns we won't be able to keep JR after this years for cap reasons.

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[OrangeDW]

It'll be interesting to see if Dion and Kyrie can play together effectively for Cleveland. There is no doubt they are both extremely talented, but its difficult to play winning basketball if your two top players always need the ball in their hands.

Take Golden State for instance. They traded Monta Ellis because things just didn't mesh with Steph Curry and now they are better. I could see one of them getting traded eventually.

I think the problem is more two guys that want to shoot all the time, rather than two guards needing the ball in their hands.

The Warriors still have 2 guards that need the ball in their hands in Curry and Jack. But Jack's not a chucker like Ellis.