Do you think the 2-3 zone keeps the best recruits away from Syracuse?

[Jeremy L.]

Syracuse is currently 2nd tier elite, so the Orange tends to get 2nd tier elite prospects . . . it's got more to do with overall reputation than the 2-3 zone. as jimsonjunction noted, adding another title or two would do more for elevating the recruiting than changing defensive philosophy would.

but I want to note one thing:

this is not accurate. JB did not begin playing mostly zone until the probation period in the early 90s, and didn't go totally zone until after the 96 Final Four run. So, it's been working more like 20 years and been excelling really only the last 4 (and counting)

Thank you for the correction!

 

[CorduroyG]

This is really kind of a crazy thread, when you think about it. Are people really complaining about our recruiting? I question whether some of you are ever happy, seriously.:bat:

we know zelda isnt, thats for sure.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

This seems like probably the right take. It would be a shock if there weren't some players who were scared off by the zone. They're 17-year old kids making a decision that is simultaneously momentous and inconsequential; just about anything could sway them.

At the same time, I don't think you can look at the costs in a vacuum. There are direct benefits - I suspect the zone has a positive impact on some kids (without having anything to base this on, MCW strikes me as a possibility). And there are indirect benefits - being a really good team has to be the single most important factor in recruiting, and at least recently the zone has been an important contributor to SU being a really good team. I also suspect that the novelty of the zone and JB's tight association with it (a Grantland writer today described SU's as the most famous defense in college basketball) brings some incremental press and attention as well.

It would shock me if some big time recruit said they didn't think they could play the zone.

I think, as you allude to in your second paragraph, that the better question from the OP would be "How much of the recruiting surge is attributable to SUs zone?" How many times have we heard announcers mention an SU type forward. We are knee deep in outstanding long lean forwards and yet they keep coming. Grant knew he had to wait a year. Roberson knows it. But they also know once they get their chance they are going to excel.

 

[orangefan13]

Scoop Jardine was 6'1 and led us to two number one rankings, a elite 8 game and we could have went alot further if it wasn't for our two centers going down. And he was slow for a 6'1 guy back in 09-10.

Paul Harris was 6'6 in the backline and a monster rebounder every night. He lacked the jumpshot and dribbling skills to ever be that good offensively.
In 2009 we had 6'5 skinny Rautins playing sf for us and that worked out well, we can do well with skinnier forwards, like freshmen cj, bj and Roberson this year and tyler lydon. We have 6'9 guys playing at center all the time.

Getting back to that 2009 sweet 16 team though, they had 5'11 flynn at pg, 6'5 sf rautins, 6'6 forward in harris, and a hobbled center in onuaku and were very dangerous come march. They ended up playing one of the three worst mismatches in the tournament for them.

JB's 2-3 zone used to take people who lack height, strength and defensive speed and get them in a good defenive systemas good if not better then m2m can.
Actually, having 1-2 Even 3-4 of them in rare cases can work out better then m2m can. End of myth.
We won't be seeing that anymore more its not how JB recruits anymore. Those two years Harris and Flynn and Scoop were worth the talent for near local products, JB won't be going in on that anymore with his recruiting though.

JB's zone can really capitalize on transition and having two pg's two sg's, two sf, and two bigs just as good, probably even better statistically as m2m can.

I would say JB's zone tends to sit back and react rather then act at times unlike Louisvilles zone which can be frustrating, but I have been watching for only 10 years and a big part of that was the lack of potential pressure defenders he had.
1. Thats not bad defense, it does work, as we hustle when the ball gets inside the nba 3 point line.
2. thats all up to the guards up top, and when he had mcw, dion up there he did plenty of on the ball pressure, where as a guy like senior rautings/triche can really extend out more even thought they won't try to take the ball like Dion/MCW did.
3. Its funny people call jb's zone gambling, I tend to feel m2m can often look like a bunch of people running around and hoping a double screen and lack of doubling inside doesn't lead to a easy bucket much easier then a contested nba 3 when our zone is even remotely extended. Not to mention the transition it leads to if opponents don't play 3-4 on offense vs our 5 defenders.

The bigger question is should it not does it?? And my awnser is no.

 

[two3zone]

This is really kind of a crazy thread, when you think about it. Are people really complaining about our recruiting? I question whether some of you are ever happy, seriously.:bat:

I don't think they're complaining and I'm not complaining but I would love to see another Carmelo come here. Not a bad question wondering why we don't get guys "like" that.


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[HOFCeluck]

I don't think they're complaining and I'm not complaining but I would love to see another Carmelo come here. Not a bad question wondering why we don't get guys "like" that.

When we were recruiting Carmelo he wasn't the elite one year and out prospect he became once arriving at Syracuse.

If you have a chance watch the 2002 McDonalds game and contrast it with Carmelo's first game vs Memphis. Two different people.

 

[SWC75]

Duke may field an entire squad of McD players but they weren't in the final four last year. KU had the best class in the country last year and they lost in the first round of the NIT. We went to a final four. It seems like you're watching recruiting as if it's the actual game. JB has a history of finding players before they get big or players that have unrealized potential. I care more about what a guy does after he gets here than what he did in high school. MCW was a three star when he committed, became a lottery pick. Hakim Warrick was a fallback recruit barely in the top 100, became an All-American and a first round draft pick. GMac was not a McD, he drops 18 in the first half of the NC game while going up against a senior that's had a 10 year NBA career and follows that up with an epic performance against BYU in the NCAA tournament the following year and a legendary one in the Big East Tournament as a senior.

You cited our history as reason for us being good recruiters. All of the teams that you think we should be better than have more history than us. The blue bloods have history going back to the 50's. Ours really only goes back to the '80's (Bing was a blip and our first final four in '75 was considered a Cinderella run). As someone else said, we are second tier elite, and we recruit like it. Do I want us to recruit like the blue bloods? Sure. What I care more about is us being consistent contenders for final fours, and we have been as of late. I certainly prefer that to being a UCLA that can point to it's history but can't live up to it.

If ALL you see are the 2% ahead of us, you must be very sad much of the time. I see the 2% ahead of us AND the 98% behind us. That's called perspective.

It's not about High School All-Americans or winning NBA games. It's about college All-Americans and winning college games.

 

[dollarbill44]

I don't think they're complaining and I'm not complaining but I would love to see another Carmelo come here. Not a bad question wondering why we don't get guys "like" that.

Maybe. Maybe not. To me, when someone says "Why can't we get guys like that?" they're not happy with who we have, i.e. complaining.

 

[DoctorBombay]

If ever a thread met the definition of "First World Problems" for a bball program, this would be it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I didn't realize we had a recruiting problem?

 

[Shenexon]

I didn't realize we had a recruiting problem?

The main issue we have with recruiting is fan appreciation for how good it has been, it is now, and how good it will continue to be. It's extraordinary that JB, Hopkins, et al. have done so well in attracting great players to play here. They've created a great brand that is still on the upswing.

 

[sufandu]

It's not about High School All-Americans or winning NBA games. It's about college All-Americans and winning college games.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not. I think that's essentially what I said when referencing Warrick and GMac.

 

[SWC75]

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not. I think that's essentially what I said when referencing Warrick and GMac.

Agreeing.