SWC75
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He's been declared "The Greatest Olympian" although the critieria for that is open to debate. Has he had the impact of Jessie Owens? Have others have been as dominant for as long a period of time? How does a swminner compare as an athlete to a champion in another sport?
The big thing for Phelps is the number of medals, especially gold medals he's won and also the prominence swimming has now. The prime time shows NBC has put on has been at least 50% swimming and 50% everything else, (and most of the rest is gymnastics). That certainly puts him ahead in the level of fame, at least for this generation. Is that the same thing as greatness?
The only thing we can look at objectively is the degree and extent of dominance in a sport. Greg Louganis is a name that comes up a lot. He was the dominant diver in the world in the late 70's and the 1980's until he retired after the 1988 olympics. Specifically, at age 16, he won the platform diving championship at Montreal and finished 6th in springboard diving. The World Championships are held in the even year between the Olympics and Greg won the platform title in the 1978 world championships. (I was unable to find out where he placed in springboard). He was unable to compete in the 1980 Olympics due to the boycott. I don't think that should be held against him. He went on to win both the platform and springboard golds in the 1982 world championships, the 1984 Olympics, the 1986 world championships and the 1988 Olympics. He then retired at the age of 28. He competed in six Olympic events and won four gold medals and one silver medal.
Phelps was 15 when finshed 5th in the 200 meter butterfly at Sydney in 200. In 2004 he won gold in the 100 and 200 meter butterfly, the 200 and 400 meter medley, the 4X200 meter freestyle relay and the 4X100 meter medley relay. He won bronze in the 200 meter freestyle and the 4X100 meter freestyle relay. In 2008 he won gold in the 100 meter and 200 meter butterfly, the 200 meter freestyle, the 200 meter and 400 meter medley, the 4X100 and 4X200 freestyle relay and the 4X100 meter medley relay. In 2012 he won gold in the 100 meter butterfly, the 200 meter medley, the 4X200 freestyle relay and trhe 4X100 meter medley relay. He won silver in the 200 meter butterfly and the 4X100 meter freestyle relay. He finished 4th in the 400 meter medley. He has now retired at the age of 27 with 18 golds, 2 silvers and 2 bronze in 23 races over four Olympiads.
That's a great record but...
1) He's never been the world's faster swimmer. He's never won the 50 or 100 meter freestyle. He won one free style individual race- the 200 meters in in 2008.
2) He's basically a butterfly specialist who uses that skill and being good in the other strokes to win medley races.
3) Seven of his golds and one each of the silvers and bronzes have been in relay races. Louganis never had any teammates.
4) So many of these races are the same thing at different distances. I'm actually amazed that there is both a 4X100 meters and a 4X200 meters freestyle relay. Four guys do one length of the pool each and then four guys do two lengths of the pool each.
It's still great record and he is the greatest swimmer of all time and major candidate for the greatest Olympian. I might pick him myself. But in terms of degree and extent, (years) of dominance, I can't really see that he was greater than Greg Louganis. The differences are that Louganis wasn't allowed to compete in 1980, he has only two events per Olympics and swimming gets a lot more attention than diving. Those difference don't make Phelps "greater" than Louganis.
There are other Olympians you could look at this way. Here is a list from Wikipedia of the all time medal winners:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_Olympic_gold_medalists
It's dominated by swimmers and gymnasts simply because those sports give out more medals than others. But look at some of the other names on their and study their careers and you could probably find some other rivals for Michael Phelps.
To reverse what Bum Phillips said about Earl Campbell, "It doesn't take long to call roll, but he's not in a class by himself."
The big thing for Phelps is the number of medals, especially gold medals he's won and also the prominence swimming has now. The prime time shows NBC has put on has been at least 50% swimming and 50% everything else, (and most of the rest is gymnastics). That certainly puts him ahead in the level of fame, at least for this generation. Is that the same thing as greatness?
The only thing we can look at objectively is the degree and extent of dominance in a sport. Greg Louganis is a name that comes up a lot. He was the dominant diver in the world in the late 70's and the 1980's until he retired after the 1988 olympics. Specifically, at age 16, he won the platform diving championship at Montreal and finished 6th in springboard diving. The World Championships are held in the even year between the Olympics and Greg won the platform title in the 1978 world championships. (I was unable to find out where he placed in springboard). He was unable to compete in the 1980 Olympics due to the boycott. I don't think that should be held against him. He went on to win both the platform and springboard golds in the 1982 world championships, the 1984 Olympics, the 1986 world championships and the 1988 Olympics. He then retired at the age of 28. He competed in six Olympic events and won four gold medals and one silver medal.
Phelps was 15 when finshed 5th in the 200 meter butterfly at Sydney in 200. In 2004 he won gold in the 100 and 200 meter butterfly, the 200 and 400 meter medley, the 4X200 meter freestyle relay and the 4X100 meter medley relay. He won bronze in the 200 meter freestyle and the 4X100 meter freestyle relay. In 2008 he won gold in the 100 meter and 200 meter butterfly, the 200 meter freestyle, the 200 meter and 400 meter medley, the 4X100 and 4X200 freestyle relay and the 4X100 meter medley relay. In 2012 he won gold in the 100 meter butterfly, the 200 meter medley, the 4X200 freestyle relay and trhe 4X100 meter medley relay. He won silver in the 200 meter butterfly and the 4X100 meter freestyle relay. He finished 4th in the 400 meter medley. He has now retired at the age of 27 with 18 golds, 2 silvers and 2 bronze in 23 races over four Olympiads.
That's a great record but...
1) He's never been the world's faster swimmer. He's never won the 50 or 100 meter freestyle. He won one free style individual race- the 200 meters in in 2008.
2) He's basically a butterfly specialist who uses that skill and being good in the other strokes to win medley races.
3) Seven of his golds and one each of the silvers and bronzes have been in relay races. Louganis never had any teammates.
4) So many of these races are the same thing at different distances. I'm actually amazed that there is both a 4X100 meters and a 4X200 meters freestyle relay. Four guys do one length of the pool each and then four guys do two lengths of the pool each.
It's still great record and he is the greatest swimmer of all time and major candidate for the greatest Olympian. I might pick him myself. But in terms of degree and extent, (years) of dominance, I can't really see that he was greater than Greg Louganis. The differences are that Louganis wasn't allowed to compete in 1980, he has only two events per Olympics and swimming gets a lot more attention than diving. Those difference don't make Phelps "greater" than Louganis.
There are other Olympians you could look at this way. Here is a list from Wikipedia of the all time medal winners:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_Olympic_gold_medalists
It's dominated by swimmers and gymnasts simply because those sports give out more medals than others. But look at some of the other names on their and study their careers and you could probably find some other rivals for Michael Phelps.
To reverse what Bum Phillips said about Earl Campbell, "It doesn't take long to call roll, but he's not in a class by himself."
