Dome

[OrangeXtreme]

So let me ask you, why the loyalty to these guys who got more than they ever imagined for their money when they made that deal?

Why would you stay loyal to Carrier when they showed minimal loyalty to us?

The Dineen Family donated $15 million towards the construction of a new law school building. Syracuse University honored that gift by naming the new building "Dineen Hall".

I'm sure the Dineen Family would be thrilled if they were "dishonored" 20-30 years from now for more $$$.

Why stop there. You might as well disrespect the Archbold Family and the Manley Family while you're at it.

 

[xc84]

The Dineen Family donated $15 million towards the construction of a new law school building. Syracuse University honored that gift by naming the new building "Dineen Hall".

I'm sure the Dineen Family would be thrilled if they were "dishonored" 20-30 years from now for more $$$.

Why stop there. You might as well disrespect the Archbold Family and the Manley Family while you're at it.

Yes, and SU can't do that. The name was part of the donation agreement. "If you donate the money, we will name the building in your honor." Legally, SU has to honor the agreements.

A Carrier Dome name change can only be done if both parties agree and they won't agree unless the incentive to do it is there. Right now, Carrier has no financial incentive to do it and the right $ incentive for Carrier would not make sense for SU.

 

[Scooch]

I think you guys also have too lofty of an expectation for what kind of money a naming rights deal would generate. I'll dig up the link but there's a list of the most lucrative deals and #10 was $7 million/year, for an NFL stadium I believe.

I imagine SU could get no more than $1-2 million a year to slap a corporate name on the Dome. That may be too generous, honestly. I mean no one would turn that down, but it wouldn't be game changing money.

 

[DPCuse]

I work in higher education and we have taken the position (in new gift agreements) that when we spend more than the original gift on a new renovation, we have the right to rename the building or space. Now that was probably not the case way back when. SU might want to think about petitioning the NYS Attorney General, who governs charitable donations, and request that the restriction be lifted.

 

[elimunelson]

Wouldn't hold your breath about anything being named "Jim Brown (fill in the blank)".

And not without reason.

May as well name it Ray Rice Stadium. School should never name anything after Jim Brown considering his past.

Why would Carrier renegotiate the deal absent a better deal for them? I don't know what the contract speaks to in terms of a rehab or a tear down but they shouldn't feel obligated to just renegotiate, arguably, the best naming rights deal in the history of naming rights deals.

 

[OttoMets]

I think you guys also have too lofty of an expectation for what kind of money a naming rights deal would generate. I'll dig up the link but there's a list of the most lucrative deals and #10 was $7 million/year, for an NFL stadium I believe.

I imagine SU could get no more than $1-2 million a year to slap a corporate name on the Dome. That may be too generous, honestly. I mean no one would turn that down, but it wouldn't be game changing money.

Agreed. (And I think any deal would be a fraction of that, probably well under $500,000 a year.)

As stated dozens of times in these types of threads, the Washington Nationals haven't found a suitable naming rights deal for their seven-year-old stadium ten blocks from the Capitol. A college stadium in Syracuse is going to be a very difficult sell for any real money.

 

[orangeinjersey]

Agreed. (And I think any deal would be a fraction of that, probably well under $500,000 a year.)

As stated dozens of times in these types of threads, the Washington Nationals haven't found a suitable naming rights deal for their seven-year-old stadium ten blocks from the Capitol. A college stadium in Syracuse is going to be a very difficult sell for any real money.

No effin way. Rutgers, Yes i said Rutgers, is getting like 900k for High Point Solutions Stadium yearly, and this was when they were stuck in the old big east during the downturn. We house a top 10 basketball team, as well as football events and lax at the "Dome". We could SURELY get more than 900k for naming rights.

EDIT: I take that back, maybe not. HSBC (Buffalo) and Pepsi (Albany) arent very lucrative. I doubt we could do MUCH better.

http://www.sportsvenues.com/rsv.php?menu=names

 

[cpatrocks]

Call them up. Ask them what percentage they'd take. I'm sure they'd be happy to take 50% or less of what the value of their asset is.

 

[Scooch]

No effin way. Rutgers, Yes i said Rutgers, is getting like 900k for High Point Solutions Stadium yearly, and this was when they were stuck in the old big east during the downturn. We house a top 10 basketball team, as well as football events and lax at the "Dome". We could SURELY get more than 900k for naming rights.

EDIT: I take that back, maybe not. HSBC (Buffalo) and Pepsi (Albany) arent very lucrative. I doubt we could do MUCH better.

http://www.sportsvenues.com/rsv.php?menu=names

Yeah, according to that link Louisville is making $500K a year for Papa John's Stadium, and a little over $1 million/year for the Yum Brands arena. Thing is, both are sponsored by massive national corporations HQ'd in Louisville. I don't see any comparable corporations in Onandaga County stepping up with a similar commitment. So SU would be counting on a community outsider to pony up. Unlikely we'd be getting more than $1 million/year, and that's probably too high.

 

[Chip]

I think you guys also have too lofty of an expectation for what kind of money a naming rights deal would generate. I'll dig up the link but there's a list of the most lucrative deals and #10 was $7 million/year, for an NFL stadium I believe.

I imagine SU could get no more than $1-2 million a year to slap a corporate name on the Dome. That may be too generous, honestly. I mean no one would turn that down, but it wouldn't be game changing money.

Those lap dances for the big guy aren't paying for themselves.

 

[SUFan44]

Yeah, according to that link Louisville is making $500K a year for Papa John's Stadium, and a little over $1 million/year for the Yum Brands arena. Thing is, both are sponsored by massive national corporations HQ'd in Louisville. I don't see any comparable corporations in Onandaga County stepping up with a similar commitment. So SU would be counting on a community outsider to pony up. Unlikely we'd be getting more than $1 million/year, and that's probably too high.

The Carrier Dome is on national television at LEAST 20 times throughout the year, not to mention regional television. You don't think that's worth $500K for a company outside of Syracuse?

It doesn't matter where the company is situated - its offices could be located in Spain for all I care. If they want advertising on the national level, stadium sponsorship of the Dome would be worth it. Even at a discount of what Papa John's Stadium is "worth" (say $250K).

 

[jr4750]

The Carrier Dome is on national television at LEAST 20 times throughout the year, not to mention regional television. You don't think that's worth $500K for a company outside of Syracuse?

It doesn't matter where the company is situated - its offices could be located in Spain for all I care. If they want advertising on the national level, stadium sponsorship of the Dome would be worth it. Even at a discount of what Papa John's Stadium is "worth" (say $250K).

I like your reasoning, but I kinda see Scooch point. The disconnect is that there are no national brand Syracuse companies. Sure a Spanish company could get exposure, just a tougher sell to them. Perhaps a Rochester company. Too bad Kodak is gone. Destiny would theoretically be a good connection, but they are the seediest bunch of professionals around.

 

[SUFan44]

No effin way. Rutgers, Yes i said Rutgers, is getting like 900k for High Point Solutions Stadium yearly, and this was when they were stuck in the old big east during the downturn. We house a top 10 basketball team, as well as football events and lax at the "Dome". We could SURELY get more than 900k for naming rights.

EDIT: I take that back, maybe not. HSBC (Buffalo) and Pepsi (Albany) arent very lucrative. I doubt we could do MUCH better.

http://www.sportsvenues.com/rsv.php?menu=names

Pepsi Center in Albany gets no national exposure. They house Siena basketball - regional at best - and AHL team. The venue is never on ESPN except for the MAAC Tournament final and MAYBE a few ESPNU games a year.

HSBC houses hockey (not a premium money maker), occasional games with St. Bonaventure & a bunch of periphery sports. Not exactly great exposure outside the WNY area.

The Carrier Dome has a basketball team that gets quality ratings on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU & CBS more than occasionally, not to mention a football team that plays on ESPN 2-3 times a year on average. Last year the Carrier Dome had a game on ESPN twice (L'Ville, FSU), not to mention Syracuse's other national TV games (Notre Dame, at Clemson, at Pitt). That's huge compared to HSBC or Pepsi Center.

We would get at least what HSBC received. And I would venture a guess that if done correctly, we should get more.

 

[Scooch]

The Carrier Dome is on national television at LEAST 20 times throughout the year, not to mention regional television. You don't think that's worth $500K for a company outside of Syracuse?

It doesn't matter where the company is situated - its offices could be located in Spain for all I care. If they want advertising on the national level, stadium sponsorship of the Dome would be worth it. Even at a discount of what Papa John's Stadium is "worth" (say $250K).

All I did was present the math.

Louisville is probably an ideal state: Brand new facilities, that are on national TV constantly, with two massive corporations that already do a ton of sports advertising located within the city limits. And that combo fetches less than $1.5 million/year.

I think it's seriously wishful thinking that SU could do as well.

 

[SUFan44]

All I did was present the math.

Louisville is probably an ideal state: Brand new facilities, that are on national TV constantly, with two massive corporations that already do a ton of sports advertising located within the city limits. And that combo fetches less than $1.5 million/year.

I think it's seriously wishful thinking that SU could do as well.

Our facility houses both football and basketball programs. You could absolutely get $1 million/year for Carrier Dome naming rights, if the right person was put in place to hammer out the deal. At least in my opinion you could.

 

[Ozcuse]

Call up Morton Salt in Chicago.

Morton was started by a Syracusan in 1848, Syracuse is the Salt City, salt domes, salt corporation, we use more road salt than pretty much everywhere...

 

[OttoMets]

No effin way. Rutgers, Yes i said Rutgers, is getting like 900k for High Point Solutions Stadium yearly, and this was when they were stuck in the old big east during the downturn. We house a top 10 basketball team, as well as football events and lax at the "Dome". We could SURELY get more than 900k for naming rights.

EDIT: I take that back, maybe not. HSBC (Buffalo) and Pepsi (Albany) arent very lucrative. I doubt we could do MUCH better.

http://www.sportsvenues.com/rsv.php?menu=names

I hadn't seen the two Upstate figures before but Albany's value is about what I was thinking of: $3,000,000 over a decade.

The Dome has much better visibility so I think we could get 50% better than that. Still not a large figure.

 

[SU2NASA]

View attachment 37207

And in the cartoon's analogy, duck season is that Carrier wouldn't be dumba$$es and take pennies on the dollar for an asset that they own free and clear, and that it's actually duck season.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I like your reasoning, but I kinda see Scooch point. The disconnect is that there are no national brand Syracuse companies. Sure a Spanish company could get exposure, just a tougher sell to them.

 

[xc84]

I like your reasoning, but I kinda see Scooch point. The disconnect is that there are no national brand Syracuse companies.

Who cares? National brands like exposure too. Doesn't need to be a local company.

 

[xc84]

And in the cartoon's analogy, duck season is that Carrier wouldn't be dumba$$es and take pennies on the dollar for an asset that they own free and clear, and that it's actually duck season.

Not sure why this isn't sinking in for some.

"They made enough money"
"They are not loyal to the community"

All irrelevant.

 

[SUFan44]

I hadn't seen the two Upstate figures before but Albany's value is about what I was thinking of: $3,000,000 over a decade.

The Dome has much better visibility so I think we could get 50% better than that. Still not a large figure.

Pepsi Center gets zero visibility nationally. You are underselling the Dome, IMO.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Pepsi Center in Albany gets no national exposure. They house Siena basketball - regional at best - and AHL team. The venue is never on ESPN except for the MAAC Tournament final and MAYBE a few ESPNU games a year.

HSBC houses hockey (not a premium money maker), occasional games with St. Bonaventure & a bunch of periphery sports. Not exactly great exposure outside the WNY area.

The Carrier Dome has a basketball team that gets quality ratings on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU & CBS more than occasionally, not to mention a football team that plays on ESPN 2-3 times a year on average. Last year the Carrier Dome had a game on ESPN twice (L'Ville, FSU), not to mention Syracuse's other national TV games (Notre Dame, at Clemson, at Pitt). That's huge compared to HSBC or Pepsi Center.

We would get at least what HSBC received. And I would venture a guess that if done correctly, we should get more.

Wait, do I need to get my Dead CD renamed, "Dozin' at the Pepsi"?

 

[longtimefan]

Not sure why this isn't sinking in for some.

"They made enough money"
"They are not loyal to the community"

All irrelevant.

3 questions:

Does Carrier have a contract?
If so, can it be broken?
If so, is it worth the effort, time, money?

 

[xc84]

3 questions:

Does Carrier have a contract?
If so, can it be broken?
If so, is it worth the effort, time, money?

Does Carrier have a contract? Yes
If so, can it be broken? Not unless both parties agree.
If so, is it worth the effort, time, money? Carrier would agree only if it is better financially than what they have now. If so, then SU gets the short end of the stick and has no incentive to break it.