Donnie Freeman in the portal

[Bayside44]

I think his point is our guys have mostly landed at other P5 programs whereas all of our new guys are coming from lower levels.

Tyler Betsy's agent called Gerry and said it starts at 750K. If nothing else we clearly have wings covered - absolutely nothing wrong there with what Cuse did.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I’m assuming Doty gets the start of 3mm are you not? Where else would 3m start over tobianson or white?

I'm up in the air who starts. Wouldn't be surprised either way. Doty would hardly be the first player who's had success at the power 5 level from the MAAC.

 

[FrancoPizza]

A big or two and a pg and we are set. Find the diamonds on the mine

Gerry better get his lungs checked for all the time he spends down in the coal mines.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Tyler Betsy's agent called Gerry and said it starts at 750K. If nothing else we clearly have wings covered - absolutely nothing wrong there with what Cuse did.

I'm not disagreeing with that decision.

I am saying, if we have guys going to P5 programs, but we acknowledge we need to increase the talent level overall, brining in guys that aren't proven at the P5 level might be a tricky road.

 

[sufan59]

I am saying, if we have guys going to P5 programs, but we acknowledge we need to increase the talent level overall, brining in guys that aren't proven at the P5 level might be a tricky road.

Overrated, get guys with good positional size no matter where they are playing that have good advanced metrics is a good route to go.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Overrated, get guys with good positional size no matter where they are playing that have good advanced metrics is a good route to go.

Sure.

You better be right in your talent assessment then.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I feel like we are in the opposite bizarro land comparable to when Autry started. At that point most of the board was excited because we signed Starling and Westry because of their ranking despite some here real Red flags. The guys we have signed lack HS or HM pedigree, but all have produced at their previous stops.

 

[MamesJungro]

Overrated, get guys with good positional size no matter where they are playing that have good advanced metrics is a good route to go.

I remain in the skeptical camp, but could be convinced otherwise if these guys do in fact have good metrics...

Do we know how they shake out vs. other ACC teams? I don't have the time anymore to really follow portal comings and goings to know where we shake out.

 

[Briancuse]

I feel like we are in the opposite bizarro land comparable to when Autry started. At that point most of the board was excited because we signed Starling and Westry because of their ranking despite some here real Red flags. The guys we have signed lack HS or HM pedigree, but all have produced at their previous stops.

We were excited we brought in talent at the time we didn't know how bad a coach red was. We are bringing in guys who produced at lower levels. Im sorry I can't get too excited about a guy as my starting pg who avg 8 ppg at mcneese.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We were excited we brought in talent at the time we didn't know how bad a coach red was. We are bringing in guys who produced at lower levels. Im sorry I can't get too excited about a guy as my starting pg who avg 8 ppg at mcneese.

Those guys were overrated. I remember calling it at the time and got killed for it...

 

[sufan59]

We were excited we brought in talent at the time we didn't know how bad a coach red was. We are bringing in guys who produced at lower levels. Im sorry I can't get too excited about a guy as my starting pg who avg 8 ppg at mcneese.

So don't get excited.

 

[Orangezoo]

I feel like we are in the opposite bizarro land comparable to when Autry started. At that point most of the board was excited because we signed Starling and Westry because of their ranking despite some here real Red flags. The guys we have signed lack HS or HM pedigree, but all have produced at their previous stops.

23-24 Transfers from FSU, ND, Auburn and Kansas with most of team retained
24-25 transfers from Colorado, Hofstra, Delaware, Georgia St with Donnie and several others retained
25-26 transfers from GT, Oregon State, UCLA, Montana State and Cincy with good freshman class and JJ/Donnie

Talent evaluation and coaching matter….

Clemson 25-26 (24 wins) - transfers from UGA( Godfrey coming back 6.4 ppg at UGA), UVU, MTSU, Nevada, UAB, UTAH. Plus 1 returning senior, and 3 freshmen( only 1 top 100 and he missed more than half the season).

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I feel like we are in the opposite bizarro land comparable to when Autry started. At that point most of the board was excited because we signed Starling and Westry because of their ranking despite some here real Red flags. The guys we have signed lack HS or HM pedigree, but all have produced at their previous stops.

Autry's first portal class gave us the feeling that the talent level went up in an obvious way. It didn't work out that way (Westry never had an on court impact, JJ didn't become the star we hoped) and we ended up being short on talent in places (Jesse leaving really hurt), but AT THE TIME it seemed as though we had returning talent in Mintz, Quadir, Bell, Maliq, Taylor (more due to promise coming off his freshman year) and also got an infusion of talent.

Again, massive caveats that the roster isn't done yet, but to say the talent has improved we're banking on mysterious international guys being impact players, lower conference guys making the leap to ACC basketball, and losses of above average talents like Donnie Freeman not hurting us.

That's not a mix to have a ton of confidence in. Tobiason looks like the only clear, unquestionable talent add. He's not enough on his own.

 

[rrlbees]

my opinion only, so fire away, but if you combined last year's roster and this years, the 2 best players in the group are tobiason and 3M. loved kingz who would be my 3rd but he didn't have enough alpha.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Autry's first portal class gave us the feeling that the talent level went up in an obvious way. It didn't work out that way (Westry never had an on court impact, JJ didn't become the star we hoped) and we ended up being short on talent in places (Jesse leaving really hurt), but AT THE TIME it seemed as though we had returning talent in Mintz, Quadir, Bell, Maliq, Taylor (more due to promise coming off his freshman year) and also got an infusion of talent.

Again, massive caveats that the roster isn't done yet, but to say the talent has improved we're banking on mysterious international guys being impact players, lower conference guys making the leap to ACC basketball, and losses of above average talents like Donnie Freeman not hurting us.

That's not a mix to have a ton of confidence in. Tobiason looks like the only clear, unquestionable talent add. He's not enough on his own.

Ehhhh, personally I was skeptical. The metrics were not pretty on a few of those guys outside of Maliq and Judah. I think 3M is going to be great, personally.

 

[BronsonCuse]

I think most of the negativity comes from the fact that as OttoInGrotto said we don't have returning talent to bank on. The entire roster turned over (save 2 non starters) and there are so many unknowns. That leaves people to fill that space in either with optimism or pessimism. Wish we could just fast forward to October to be able to see them play. I don't think its as bad as some are making it but I also do think we have some current holes. Patience isn't a popular thing to preach... but I do think its the only way not to twist yourself in a pretzel thinking about what next December will be. Let it play out.

 

[JOC44]

The new reality places way more emphasis on talent evaluation. In the good old days when schools like Syracuse recruited mainly high schoolers, a consensus would develop as to high school rankings. Individual colleges might like some guys more than their ranking and other guys less, but directionally, there was a whole industry who did some of the rough sorting. And then there were AAU showcases (EYBL, etc.) where you could see players against other top high school players even if the kid didn't go to a high school that was a basketball factory.

Now, with the focus on the portal, I think portal recruits fall into three broad categories:

1. Guys were were very successful at the P5 level

2. Guys who were at a P5 school but either didn't play much or didn't play great

3. Guys who played well at a level lower than the P5 level

There's actually a fourth level -- guys who didn't do much at a lower level, but I assume we're not in the mix for them.

There are hits and misses at all three levels. Obviously guys who have done well at the P5 level are, in general, the safest bets. But we would have put Nait George at that level. William Kyle was a Level 2 guy, but he worked out pretty well. And a coaching staff has to do a lot of projection and evaluation for the non-P5 guys because there's no good chance to see them that much against the caliber of talent we play against in the ACC.

My point is I don't really care where these guys played last year, particularly if they weren't bona fide stars at a top, top level. I can be thrilled with a team made up entirely of guys who didn't play at the P5 level last year plus Sadiq, Kiyan, and Moesch, if those non-P5 guys can play. We'll find out whether they can play in due course, but it's too early for me to be bummed and where our portal guys went to college doesn't move the needle at all for me.

 

[Cusefan78]

my opinion only, so fire away, but if you combined last year's roster and this years, the 2 best players in the group are tobiason and 3M. loved kingz who would be my 3rd but he didn't have enough alpha.

I agree with you here so be shocked. I’m wondering if gmac has given any thought to paying whatever is takes to bring Donnie back. It sends a message that we can spend with the big boys and it gives us a star player on the current roster.

 

[JeffCuse]

I think most of the negativity comes from the fact that as OttoInGrotto said we don't have returning talent to bank on. The entire roster turned over (save 2 non starters) and there are so many unknowns. That leaves people to fill that space in either with optimism or pessimism. Wish we could just fast forward to October to be able to see them play. I don't think its as bad as some are making it but I also do think we have some current holes. Patience isn't a popular thing to preach... but I do think its the only way not to twist yourself in a pretzel thinking about what next December will be. Let it play out.

Much of the negativity comes from the fact that many fans were told that by staying "in the family" there would be a huge bolus of NIL that would elevate us to the top 3rd of the conference and significantly upgrade the caliber of players we would see transferring in. To date, that just isn't happening. I dont think anyone expected a lineup of 5 stars, but I think we all hoped at least one or two portal stars could be added. Yet to date, we are still playing in basically the same waters as last year and bringing in guys that seem to project as bottom half ACC starters at best. Even one big ticket player at PG or C...Diop, Riley, Mack...I believe would give people a better feeling.

 

[Orangezoo]

I agree with you here so be shocked. I’m wondering if gmac has given any thought to paying whatever is takes to bring Donnie back. It sends a message that we can spend with the big boys and it gives us a star player on the current roster.

Donnie would have to be 100 pct healthy. That foot is a problem. The moment he re aggravated it - he was slower on it and gimpy at times the entire rest of the season. It’s an injury that can be painful for life even if you can play on it. It hurt his game just as did apathy but he’s not the same player when he’s a step slow and the question of adding weight comes into play given he gets bullied around the rim. If not for that I think he’d be worth every penny.

 

[rrlbees]

I agree with you here so be shocked. I’m wondering if gmac has given any thought to paying whatever is takes to bring Donnie back. It sends a message that we can spend with the big boys and it gives us a star player on the current roster.

obviously, things can change, but i was told donnie was leaving regardless of the coach.

 

[Orangezoo]

Much of the negativity comes from the fact that many fans were told that by staying "in the family" there would be a huge bolus of NIL that would elevate us to the top 3rd of the conference and significantly upgrade the caliber of players we would see transferring in. Top date, that just isn't happening. We are still playing in basically the same waters as last year and bringing in guys that seem to project as bottom half ACC starters at best. Even one big ticket player at PG or C...Diop, Riley, Mack...I believe would give people a better feeling.

The program has not done well with talent evaluation the past 3 years. We really don’t know if the first 9 guys we have now are going to persist that trend or blow it up in a good way. The next 3 may give us more confidence or less confidence but still won’t tell us a whole lot. I really hope we do a summer tour so the team can play together and so we can all selfishly get a read on the roster beyond what’s on paper.

 

[rrlbees]

Much of the negativity comes from the fact that many fans were told that by staying "in the family" there would be a huge bolus of NIL that would elevate us to the top 3rd of the conference and significantly upgrade the caliber of players we would see transferring in. To date, that just isn't happening. I dont think anyone expected a lineup of 5 stars, but I think we all hoped at least one or two portal stars could be added. Yet to date, we are still playing in basically the same waters as last year and bringing in guys that seem to project as bottom half ACC starters at best. Even one big ticket player at PG or C...Diop, Riley, Mack...I believe would give people a better feeling.

we doubled our nil or close to it. thats a big jump. who knows where it ranks not knowing what other schools have. and tobiason and 3m arent bottom half players nor were they cheap.

 

[sufandu]

my opinion only, so fire away, but if you combined last year's roster and this years, the 2 best players in the group are tobiason and 3M. loved kingz who would be my 3rd but he didn't have enough alpha.

Are we talking best or most talented? Those aren't always the same.

 

[rrlbees]

Are we talking best or most talented? Those aren't always the same.

best. im sure donnie is the most talented but it wasnt meant o be.