Donnie Freeman injures foot

[capeorange]

Does anyone really know how bad his injury is?
We don't want or need another Chance or DaJuan Coleman. (no pun intended.)

 

[Fly Rodder]

The Jesse situation is entirely different, but has contributed to this as well.

I get it and it takes two to tango but I don't think SU knew what they were doing and how valuable Jesse was (for example, see how unprepared for NIL and the portal they were this past off-season). Centers who can defend and score like him are not a dime a dozen. There are only a few every season and SU should have made him their priority in the offseason before his dad started getting offers, instead of he's not worth that much and we're done negotiating.

 

[Hopkins16]

Pay Freeman. We can’t afford for a highly recruited player to portal when we are trying to attract that kind of player going forward. Since Red is going nowhere, show a commitment to development by replacing one of the assistants with someone with a proven record of developing forwards (especially since White too will benefit). Melo could get in Freeman’s ear and let it be known that he will be around the program and can help with the development. It’s in Melo’s interest to have studs around Kiyan.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He's talented for sure, but his points and rebounds were practically by accident.

That's a really telling and important sign actually.

 

[Niastri]

They may want to pay up but does he want to stay here and deal with the same staff who hasn't helped improve his game much.

I would argue Freeman was the one player who did get better. He went, in his 14 games, from a guy who was literally watching opposing guards get layups without even moving to a guy who was getting there in time to at least challenge the shot. I suspect, if he was healthy, he would have been blocking at least a shot a game by the end of the season. His defense was his weakness, but if that improved, he could have been a consistent 20-10 guy with decent defense if not for his injury. I think the bidding starts (if he gets to the transfer portal) at couple million, and gets really high. Maybe he’ll continue to play for a discount for us, and we only have to pay him $1.5 million or something… But NIL is already gone up dramatically, and that is completely ignoring the direct payments schools are going to be making.

 

[cardiac]

He came here for 150k. He had offers of $400k plus. He wanted to play for Red. One season in let’s see what happens and how he feels. Everyone wants him to return. 10 games in he said he wanted to come back. Again let’s see how he feels. I expect SU to pay up

Any idea of the price to keep him? 800k?

 

[hoopsupstate]

I would argue Freeman was the one player who did get better. He went, in his 14 games, from a guy who was literally watching opposing guards get layups without even moving to a guy who was getting there in time to at least challenge the shot. I suspect, if he was healthy, he would have been blocking at least a shot a game by the end of the season. His defense was his weakness, but if that improved, he could have been a consistent 20-10 guy with decent defense if not for his injury. I think the bidding starts (if he gets to the transfer portal) at couple million, and gets really high. Maybe he’ll continue to play for a discount for us, and we only have to pay him $1.5 million or something… But NIL is already gone up dramatically, and that is completely ignoring the direct payments schools are going to be making.

Remember, you have Eddie, Westry and Bell coming off the books plus an additional $4 million coming from the University, plus collective, plus NIL Tournament.

 

[Hopkins16]

I would argue Freeman was the one player who did get better. He went, in his 14 games, from a guy who was literally watching opposing guards get layups without even moving to a guy who was getting there in time to at least challenge the shot. I suspect, if he was healthy, he would have been blocking at least a shot a game by the end of the season. His defense was his weakness, but if that improved, he could have been a consistent 20-10 guy with decent defense if not for his injury. I think the bidding starts (if he gets to the transfer portal) at couple million, and gets really high. Maybe he’ll continue to play for a discount for us, and we only have to pay him $1.5 million or something… But NIL is already gone up dramatically, and that is completely ignoring the direct payments schools are going to be making.

I’d really like to see what a healthy Freeman can do for us next season. I watched a few of his high school games and he moved fluidly and gracefully. Without the injury, I can see a more confident player next season.

 

[Bulldog04]

Any idea of the price to keep him? 800k?

I think it will be In that range. So many schools have disposable nil so the offers may be ridiculous. Just all depends how much he likes Syracuse

 

[littlereg]

I mean I’d have to imagine in the open market Donnie could get 1.5-2m. If he stays it would be somewhere around 1m I’d think. Hes a legit 18/10 type guy next year. If we have any semblance of talent around him and he’s healthy he’s gonna put up big time numbers.

 

[Niastri]

I mean I’d have to imagine in the open market Donnie could get 1.5-2m. If he stays it would be somewhere around 1m I’d think. Hes a legit 18/10 type guy next year. If we have any semblance of talent around him and he’s healthy he’s gonna put up big time numbers.

I think you’re vastly underestimating, but we’ll see how it turns out. This past season, a bunch of players were over $1 million, led by Flagg getting $3.3 million. I’d be stunned if Freeman gets less than $2 million if he decides to go to the portal.

I’m hoping Syracuse can be competitive and he wants to run it back.

 

[grepal]

This is insane. Freeman’s upside is a three level scoring small forward that happens to be 6’10 and pulls down 10 rebounds a game.

His defense might be solved by good coaching, but even in his 14 games here, his defensive instincts got better. He has potential as a shotblocker as well although no natural instincts for it.

If he reaches his potential, he’s the difference between being a bubble team and a 4 seed in the Tournament. Or a 4 seed and a 1 seed…

That’s part of what you’re paying for. Even if you ignore his potential, and assume Freeman never gets better, what is a 14 and 8 guy who can hit a three worth in the market?

I want him to stay I just want added strength and more work on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[kingtidge]

I think you’re vastly underestimating, but we’ll see how it turns out. This past season, a bunch of players were over $1 million, led by Flagg getting $3.3 million. I’d be stunned if Freeman gets less than $2 million if he decides to go to the portal.

I’m hoping Syracuse can be competitive and he wants to run it back.

Yeah, the $20.5 mill school funds+ the NIL collective war chests at some of the SEC and B1G state schools will mean there is going to be A LOT of cash floating around at some programs.

I bet there will be some ridic offers floated by some funds-rich programs for players... especially with state laws superseding NCAA guidance on the NIL collective funds currently and no federal laws to set the deck.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is insane. Freeman’s upside is a three level scoring small forward that happens to be 6’10 and pulls down 10 rebounds a game.

His defense might be solved by good coaching, but even in his 14 games here, his defensive instincts got better. He has potential as a shotblocker as well although no natural instincts for it.

If he reaches his potential, he’s the difference between being a bubble team and a 4 seed in the Tournament. Or a 4 seed and a 1 seed…

That’s part of what you’re paying for. Even if you ignore his potential, and assume Freeman never gets better, what is a 14 and 8 guy who can hit a three worth in the market?

Yes, they have to not only convince him to come back, but they have to actually make him better, and assemble a much better team around him. And I'll say it again, this is the guy Melo should make his personal project this summer. That's how we keep him. Nobody else can offer him that.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Freeman was not healthy that was his only issue beside defense but I cant tell right now if that is a him problem or a Red problem. Probably a little of both as I don't think he had great defensive awareness. But he averaged 13/8 when he played. Benny never came close to that.

Ace Baily averaged 17/7
Thomas Sorber 14/8
Knueppel averaged 14/4
McNeeley averaged 15/6

Like freshmen don't come in and set the world on fire. His numbers are just in line with other freshman around the nation comparing him to Benny is super disrespectful.

If you compare Sorber to Freeman, since they both put up similar numbers, Sorber played closer to the hoop, was more physical, more willing to mix it up inside. Donnie wants to be a jump shooter. He thinks a 3 point shot is his ticket to the NBA.

He fails to realize that you have to be tough as hell defensively, and you have to be so much stronger, just to play in the G League, let alone the NBA. He's still a baby. You can take the ball out of his hands, and it happened multiple times every game after a rebound, or receiving a pass in the paint. That won't fly. That's why he got benched.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If you compare Sorber to Freeman, since they both put up similar numbers, Sorber played closer to the hoop, was more physical, more willing to mix it up inside. Donnie wants to be a jump shooter. He thinks a 3 point shot is his ticket to the NBA.

He fails to realize that you have to be tough as hell defensively, and you have to be so much stronger, just to play in the G League, let alone the NBA. He's still a baby. You can take the ball out of his hands, and it happened multiple times every game after a rebound, or receiving a pass in the paint. That won't fly. That's why he got benched.

Ok, yes, needs to get stronger, BUT

Until he went out he was our leading rebounder, even ahead of Lampkin, who had a really good year rebounding by the end.

And that's even with him not being able to hang on to the ball every time.

He's going to get stronger. The ball issues will get better.

I look at a player like Gordon Hayward. When he was with the Jazz he was pretty good, but over time he improved his strength and it dramatically changed his game. But that was after YEARS of NBA training.

Freeman's upside remains incredibly high. Give him time. I want that time to be with us.

 

[phil77]

If you compare Sorber to Freeman, since they both put up similar numbers, Sorber played closer to the hoop, was more physical, more willing to mix it up inside. Donnie wants to be a jump shooter. He thinks a 3 point shot is his ticket to the NBA.

He fails to realize that you have to be tough as hell defensively, and you have to be so much stronger, just to play in the G League, let alone the NBA. He's still a baby. You can take the ball out of his hands, and it happened multiple times every game after a rebound, or receiving a pass in the paint. That won't fly. That's why he got benched.

They are different players, one plays like Kevin Durant type wing player and one plays like a true post player. You're expecting Freeman to be a post player like Sorber is, your problem not his. He is never going to be that. Freeman is a 3/4 not a 4/5 type player. If you feel he should be different again that is on you. The main thing that I want Freeman to improve on defense is to have more awareness for defensive rotations and look for weakside rotation blocks, which is something KD did well.

 

[IthacaMatt]

That's a really telling and important sign actually.

Yes, and it says a couple things - (1) he has huge upside, if he can be better in terms of fundamentals and strength, and (2) Autry has to give him better instruction of how to play on offense.

I don't really remember Donnie and Eddie playing a high-low game, like Eddie and Jyare did in the last few games.

If you watched our teams with Arinze & Rick, and you had Eddie and Donnie, that should have been the first thing you taught them on offense at the beginning of the season - the high-low game and double post offense. Use Donnie for the high picks - and he can pop for the midrange or 3 point shot off the pick. Have Eddie on the low post to draw double teams and open up shooters.

This is so obvious, but it took until February for Autry to try these things.

 

[IthacaMatt]

They are different players, one plays like Kevin Durant type wing player and one plays like a true post player. You're expecting Freeman to be a post player like Sorber is, your problem not his. He is never going to be that. Freeman is a 3/4 not a 4/5 type player. If you feel he should be different again that is on you. The main thing that I want Freeman to improve on defense is to have more awareness for defensive rotations and look for weakside rotation blocks, which is something KD did well.

No, you're missing the point. Even Kevin Durant established his offensive game in the midrange, before becoming a 3 point shooter, especially in college. No, Durant was not a beast in the low-post, but he knew to post people up and shoot over them when he had the matchup in his favor. Donnie doesn't do that yet. He needs to.

It's easy to cover a guy who just stands at the 3 point line, no matter how tall he is. Use your physical tools to assert your dominance over the defender. Make them change their game to stop your easy buckets, and then the whole floor opens up to you.

 

[phil77]

No, you're missing the point. Even Kevin Durant established his offensive game in the midrange, before becoming a 3 point shooter, especially in college. No, Durant was not a beast in the low-post, but he knew to post people up and shoot over them when he had the matchup in his favor. Donnie doesn't do that yet. He needs to.

It's easy to cover a guy who just stands at the 3 point line, no matter how tall he is. Use your physical tools to assert your dominance over the defender. Make them change their game to stop your easy buckets, and then the whole floor opens up to you.

He stands at the 3 point line on offense because THAT IS WHAT OUR COACH ASKS HIM TO DO. That is literally our offense. You think he just stands there because and that is cool. You think it is his choice to not get the ball on mismatches? THAT IS COACHING !!!! Not Freeman. That is why he will transfer.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Ok, yes, needs to get stronger, BUT

Until he went out he was our leading rebounder, even ahead of Lampkin, who had a really good year rebounding by the end.

And that's even with him not being able to hang on to the ball every time.

He's going to get stronger. The ball issues will get better.

I look at a player like Gordon Hayward. When he was with the Jazz he was pretty good, but over time he improved his strength and it dramatically changed his game. But that was after YEARS of NBA training.

Freeman's upside remains incredibly high. Give him time. I want that time to be with us.

Oh yeah, I totally agree. He's not anyone I want to lose. But he needs so much work, and this staff didn't do him justice this past season.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He stands at the 3 point line on offense because THAT IS WHAT OUR COACH ASKS HIM TO DO. That is literally our offense. You think he just stands there because and that is cool. You think it is his choice to not get the ball on mismatches? THAT IS COACHING !!!! Not Freeman. That is why he will transfer.

Well, ok, that's shitty coaching, I agree. But if you look at the last 20 years of SU hoops, we've had too many PF type of guys who don't stay inside enough, fall in love with taking jump shots, and that's pretty much the end of their career. They transfer, or enter the draft and fail to make a team. If you watch any NBA at all, you know that Freeman turning into Kevin Durant is several years of hard work and humility away.

As Boeheim once said to Derrick Coleman, "If you stay inside and rebound, you're going to make a lot of money some day." Is Donnie Freeman the outside shooter that Cole Swider is? Not even in the same league. Cole is pretty much as tall - I think both are 6-9 - and Cole is a pretty good rebounder. Donnie has a hell of a lot of work to do; that's where the humility part comes in.

 

[IthacaMatt]

They are different players, one plays like Kevin Durant type wing player and one plays like a true post player. You're expecting Freeman to be a post player like Sorber is, your problem not his. He is never going to be that. Freeman is a 3/4 not a 4/5 type player. If you feel he should be different again that is on you. The main thing that I want Freeman to improve on defense is to have more awareness for defensive rotations and look for weakside rotation blocks, which is something KD did well.

I agree, Donnie is a 3/4, not a 4/5. But there isn't enough "4" in his game right now, and he's not good enough at the "3" part.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well, ok, that's shitty coaching, I agree. But if you look at the last 20 years of SU hoops, we've had too many PF type of guys who don't stay inside enough, fall in love with taking jump shots, and that's pretty much the end of their career. They transfer, or enter the draft and fail to make a team. If you watch any NBA at all, you know that Freeman turning into Kevin Durant is several years of hard work and humility away.

As Boeheim once said to Derrick Coleman, "If you stay inside and rebound, you're going to make a lot of money some day." Is Donnie Freeman the outside shooter that Cole Swider is? Not even in the same league. Cole is pretty much as tall - I think both are 6-9 - and Cole is a pretty good rebounder. Donnie has a hell of a lot of work to do; that's where the humility part comes in.

Freeman is already a better rebounder than Swider though.

And it's not that rebounding isn't less important now, but the game has changed. In today's game DC would be encouraged to improve his perimeter skills.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Freeman is already a better rebounder than Swider though.

And it's not that rebounding isn't less important now, but the game has changed. In today's game DC would be encouraged to improve his perimeter skills.

Maybe you forget, but DC had perimeter skills. He even used to dribble to start a fast break or help break the press. Owens used to do that, too. Sure, Boeheim didn't want him hoisting threes, because he was the biggest badass in basketball, and you want your enforcer where the action is, underneath, where guys are mixing it up and enforcing their will on the other team. Just like football, basketball games are won in the trenches, at the highest level. If you want to win championships, you have to out-tough the other team.