Donnie Freeman transferring to St Johns

[hoopsupstate]

Not to mention it’s coming often from the “reds a terrible coach crowd.” Maybe he just wasn’t a superstar because he had an all time terrible head coach. We literally didn’t have an offense and the kid still put up good numbers.

Think St Johns was a great decision by him.

St. JOHN’s hasn’t been known for stellar offenses. They have actually been poor.

 

[jsshap]

Good luck to Donnie. I understand he turned down a substantial amount of money to stay at SU and appreciate that. I wish him success with the Johnnies.

It's extraordinary that such a sentiment is so hard to find from this group.

 

[MikeSU02]

Good choice by Donnie. He’ll do well at St John’s. Glad he didn’t go to Kentucky. Pope’s days are numbered.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You can have plenty of talent but still miss something

Hope he succeeds, but not sure he’s the piece you build around in a rebuild. Its too big a price tag for the return.

I agree with the first statement. It's my uninformed opinion that Gerry would have wanted to keep him and try to get through to him as a coach, but he was Red's guy. Many said he was gone.

The $3M price tag is not shocking, and should have been within our budget, if we had the money to get a couple top shelf talents. We haven't spent much more than half the money we have, by what we've been told.

 

[kingtidge]

People complaining giving Donnie $3 million because it’s too much of our budget. Everyone wants top players in the portal, but that’s what it’s going to cost. We’re not going to get the players that fans want without spending that kind of money. You want a top player you have to pay for it. We don’t have a single player currently on our roster that’s an all ACC player. You aren’t winning big games in the conference without them. We went into the portal needing a top level point guard and center. We haven’t come close to getting either. We still might, but I’m not holding my breath.

No, I think some are questioning $3 mil for a player that is not proven top tier.

 

[Cusefan0307]

No, I think some are questioning $3 mil for a player that is not proven top tier.

I think injury history is the bigger concern. If he gets injured St. John’s is likely ephed. They want him to replace Ejifour.

 

[Newhouser]

I think injury history is the bigger concern. If he gets injured St. John’s is likely ephed. They want him to replace Ejifour.

and he really plays nothing like Ejiofor. Going to be interesting to see how he develops under Pitino.

Keep in mind too Pitino has no problem cutting bait with people who don't meet his expectations.

 

[Niastri]

Geez, some of these takes on Donnie Freeman are just nuts.

This supposedly unmotivated player just, I don't know, casually and with great disinterest put up 16 and 7 as the focal point of every opponent's defensive attention, simultaneously disappointing and proving he can't be coached with any discipline.

Amazing.

His best college basketball is ahead of him, and we won't get to enjoy it happening in a Syracuse uniform.

100 percent agree. I was really hoping Freeman would stay and we would get to see what a GMAC coached, Freeman led team could do.

Red seemed to reach his current Peter principle limit as head coach, and unfortunately we were all here to see it. But it was way worse for Freeman. Injuries and Red set him back, I think.

I expect him to continue to be excellent. 16 and 7 on a bad team isn't a failure, but I think Freeman could have done way more. St. Johns will be good, and Freeman is going to be a big part of that.

On the plus side, I now have MMM as my prospect binky. Congrats, Mark!

 

[Bayside44]

If Freeman is 16 / 7 with St. John's they'll be happy. The concern is the injury risk. The random off plays won't happen there.

 

[kirbivore]

The new reality places way more emphasis on talent evaluation. In the good old days when schools like Syracuse recruited mainly high schoolers, a consensus would develop as to high school rankings. Individual colleges might like some guys more than their ranking and other guys less, but directionally, there was a whole industry who did some of the rough sorting. And then there were AAU showcases (EYBL, etc.) where you could see players against other top high school players even if the kid didn't go to a high school that was a basketball factory.

Now, with the focus on the portal, I think portal recruits fall into three broad categories:

1. Guys were were very successful at the P5 level

2. Guys who were at a P5 school but either didn't play much or didn't play great

3. Guys who played well at a level lower than the P5 level

There's actually a fourth level -- guys who didn't do much at a lower level, but I assume we're not in the mix for them.

There are hits and misses at all three levels. Obviously guys who have done well at the P5 level are, in general, the safest bets. But we would have put Nait George at that level. William Kyle was a Level 2 guy, but he worked out pretty well. And a coaching staff has to do a lot of projection and evaluation for the non-P5 guys because there's no good chance to see them that much against the caliber of talent we play against in the ACC.

My point is I don't really care where these guys played last year, particularly if they weren't bona fide stars at a top, top level. I can be thrilled with a team made up entirely of guys who didn't play at the P5 level last year plus Sadiq, Kiyan, and Moesch, if those non-P5 guys can play. We'll find out whether they can play in due course, but it's too early for me to be bummed and where our portal guys went to college doesn't move the needle at all for me.

I want to stay away from players that fit your second bullet point. While a reprehensible scumbag Bruce Pearl has a point when he says he didn't want other high major's problems coming to his team.

 

[Cheriehoop]

If Freeman is 16 / 7 with St. John's they'll be happy. The concern is the injury risk. The random off plays won't happen there.

Defense could be an issue but he maybe motivated by its’ emphasis by the staff and his teammates. I imagine practices are very competitive and defense could affect his time on the court.

 

[Scooch]

Other than injuries, everything else DOES have to do with coaching and him not being pushed in a way that would help him actualize his immense potential.

Personally, I don't think it's just about "being pushed". Freeman didn't play a style of ball that emphasized his athletic strengths.

He drifted around the perimeter far too much. Any coach worth their salt would have him moving with purpose, taking advantage of mismatches, etc. Watch any NBA playoff game tonight and we'll find some guy playing the way Freeman should.

Needless to say, Red was incapable of both scheming that up and convincing Freeman to play in that manner.

Pitino will provide Freeman the blueprint. It'll be on him to follow it.

 

[Niastri]

The new reality places way more emphasis on talent evaluation. In the good old days when schools like Syracuse recruited mainly high schoolers, a consensus would develop as to high school rankings. Individual colleges might like some guys more than their ranking and other guys less, but directionally, there was a whole industry who did some of the rough sorting. And then there were AAU showcases (EYBL, etc.) where you could see players against other top high school players even if the kid didn't go to a high school that was a basketball factory.

Now, with the focus on the portal, I think portal recruits fall into three broad categories:

1. Guys were were very successful at the P5 level

2. Guys who were at a P5 school but either didn't play much or didn't play great

3. Guys who played well at a level lower than the P5 level

There's actually a fourth level -- guys who didn't do much at a lower level, but I assume we're not in the mix for them.

There are hits and misses at all three levels. Obviously guys who have done well at the P5 level are, in general, the safest bets. But we would have put Nait George at that level. William Kyle was a Level 2 guy, but he worked out pretty well. And a coaching staff has to do a lot of projection and evaluation for the non-P5 guys because there's no good chance to see them that much against the caliber of talent we play against in the ACC.

My point is I don't really care where these guys played last year, particularly if they weren't bona fide stars at a top, top level. I can be thrilled with a team made up entirely of guys who didn't play at the P5 level last year plus Sadiq, Kiyan, and Moesch, if those non-P5 guys can play. We'll find out whether they can play in due course, but it's too early for me to be bummed and where our portal guys went to college doesn't move the needle at all for me.

I liked your post... My only quibble is William Kyle was both a 2 and a 3 on your list. His time at South Dakota State showed a lot of what he can do, and his talent was largely wasted at UCLA.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I liked your post... My only quibble is William Kyle was both a 2 and a 3 on your list. His time at South Dakota State showed a lot of what he can do, and his talent was largely wasted at UCLA.

He wasn’t alone. Can you imagine not playing both Aday Mara (Michigan) nor William Kyle (SU) both bench sitting centers at UCLA?

 

[Niastri]

The program has not done well with talent evaluation the past 3 years. We really don’t know if the first 9 guys we have now are going to persist that trend or blow it up in a good way. The next 3 may give us more confidence or less confidence but still won’t tell us a whole lot. I really hope we do a summer tour so the team can play together and so we can all selfishly get a read on the roster beyond what’s on paper.

I agree with the bolded. The whole roster as it stands has huge error bars for future performance.

Sibi could be Ugonna Onyenso or yet another unskilled cat rescuer that can't play.

White and Anthony could live up to their top30 high school recruit rankings, or continue to look lost a significant amount of time on the floor.

Tobiason could translate perfectly to a higher conference, and be a star, or be exposed.

Mahmutovic is being hailed as the equivalent of a 5 star recruit, but even those guys bomb sometimes. But he shot 49% from three for a whole season in a lower level Euro pro league!

Moesch seems to have tremendous basketball talent and that mysterious "it" that makes a good player. But he also is a freshman and weighs substantially less than the average Syracusefan.com poster.

Doty is a little less of a wild card. He played a great game against Duke, but coming from the MAAC to the ACC is a huge leap. Can he physically compete? Will being slight of build and less athletic take away his ability to score at a high level?

I could go through the whole roster, and write extensive reviews. Looking at the team as a whole so far, out of everybody, only Goodrick and Dual are likely to be predictable. Both transfer seniors who have played at a bunch of schools, with reasonably long track records. I expect steady unspectacular play. But even then, how will their evolution as players continue, and how will their ability translate to the higher level?

 

[Orangezoo]

I agree with the bolded. The whole roster as it stands has huge error bars for future performance.

Sibi could be Ugonna Onyenso or yet another unskilled cat rescuer that can't play.

White and Anthony could live up to their top30 high school recruit rankings, or continue to look lost a significant amount of time on the floor.

Tobiason could translate perfectly to a higher conference, and be a star, or be exposed.

Mahmutovic is being hailed as the equivalent of a 5 star recruit, but even those guys bomb sometimes. But he shot 49% for a whole season in a lesser pro league!

Moesch seems to have tremendous basketball talent and that mysterious "it" that makes a good player. But he also is a freshman and weighs substantially less than the average Syracusefan.com poster.

Doty is a little less of a wild card. He played a great game against Duke, but coming from the MAAC to the ACC is a huge leap. Can he physically compete? Will being slight of build and less athletic take away his ability to score at a high level?

I could go through the whole roster, and write extensive reviews. Looking at the team as a whole so far, out of everybody, only Goodrick and Dual are likely to be predictable. Both transfer seniors who have played at a bunch of schools, with reasonably long track records. I expect steady unspectacular play. But even then, how will their evolution as players continue, and how will their ability translate to the higher level?

As for consistency, adding Wilson to the team certainly can help with another more predictable addition.

I will also say that in this portal era- my comment is something you could apply to nearly every team. The roster reset approach means you are a grenade away( injury , poor translation to a bigger role etc) from a bad year. Even SJU with Donnie- if healthy he will do great but if not then it’s a massive gamble. Had he been healthy here as someone else said he probably is in the NBA already after putting up a double double average.

 

[Scooch]

I agree with the bolded. The whole roster as it stands has huge error bars for future performance.

Sibi could be Ugonna Onyenso or yet another unskilled cat rescuer that can't play.

White and Anthony could live up to their top30 high school recruit rankings, or continue to look lost a significant amount of time on the floor.

Tobiason could translate perfectly to a higher conference, and be a star, or be exposed.

Mahmutovic is being hailed as the equivalent of a 5 star recruit, but even those guys bomb sometimes. But he shot 49% for a whole season in a lesser pro league!

Moesch seems to have tremendous basketball talent and that mysterious "it" that makes a good player. But he also is a freshman and weighs substantially less than the average Syracusefan.com poster.

Doty is a little less of a wild card. He played a great game against Duke, but coming from the MAAC to the ACC is a huge leap. Can he physically compete? Will being slight of build and less athletic take away his ability to score at a high level?

I could go through the whole roster, and write extensive reviews. Looking at the team as a whole so far, out of everybody, only Goodrick and Dual are likely to be predictable. Both transfer seniors who have played at a bunch of schools, with reasonably long track records. I expect steady unspectacular play. But even then, how will their evolution as players continue, and how will their ability translate to the higher level?

Tremendous post.

 

[hplare]

Did Donnie or is agent know Pitino employs a full court press?

 

[Col. Bleep]

I want to stay away from players that fit your second bullet point. While a reprehensible scumbag Bruce Pearl has a point when he says he didn't want other high major's problems coming to his team.

It's interesting that Bruce Pearl still gets pilloried for his wrongdoing.
Yet no one says a word about Pitino.

As for Donnie Freeman...he's going to learn to play defense very quickly.
And that will make him a genuine NBA player.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

But he also is a freshman and weighs substantially less than the average Syracusefan.com poster.

Would it be fair to say that ideally

Syracuse bigs weigh more or significantly more than your average syracusefan.com poster but not equal or less than?

Syracuse wings weigh about the same as your average poster, but not more or less?

Syracuse point guards weigh less than your average poster, but not significantly less?

 

[Nicknack]

This will be REALLY interesting to watch next year. Can Pitino get Freeman to play closer to the basket and through contact rather than avoiding it and playing mainly perimeter. Will he get Donnie to put more effort on D. I think he does (to an extent at least).

 

[Niastri]

As for consistency, adding Wilson to the team certainly can help with another more predictable addition.

I will also say that in this portal era- my comment is something you could apply to nearly every team. The roster reset approach means you are a grenade away( injury , poor translation to a bigger role etc) from a bad year. Even SJU with Donnie- if healthy he will do great but if not then it’s a massive gamble. Had he been healthy here as someone else said he probably is in the NBA already after putting up a double double average.

That's the thing though, a quality roster, coached well, can absorb those "grenades." Look at Siena last season. Lost their starting center 9 games in, lost their backup center to a concussion, had a few other more standard injury troubles, and then lost a second starter to Disqualification a week before the conference tournament.

Because of quality depth, they were able to overcome the early injuries. Then, GMAC went full JB and had an ironman 5 starting at the MAAC tournament, which they won.

All you can do is stack talent, manage personnel, develop your reserves, make adjustments when adversity strikes and coach the kids you do have well.

I got a lot more excited about GMAC being a coach when I learned about how much adversity he was able to win through last year. Many teams would have crumbled, but Siena actually seemed to get stronger as the season went along.

 

[sufan59]

This will be REALLY interesting to watch next year. Can Pitino get Freeman to play closer to the basket and through contact rather than avoiding it and playing mainly perimeter. Will he get Donnie to put more effort on D. I think he does (to an extent at least).

I wouldn't bet against Rick Pitino. Even someone like Ian Jackson, night and day difference the toughness he displayed last season from his North Carolina year.

 

[cusefan88]

If any of you follow Donnie on social media you would probably get the feeling he would much rather live in NYC than Lexington.

He seems to enjoy culture, clothes, etc many things young people enjoy. Much more fun to do that in New York.

 

[Niastri]

Yeah, I mean... it's pretty black and white though.

We need more talent. A lot more talent.

100% agree. At this point, we need to add two players better than anybody we already have to be a national champion contender.

Maybe 3.

Center, Power Forward and Point Guard all look weak relative to average in the ACC as of this writing.

Our roster right now looks like a lot of prayers that GMAC and the coaching staff can get massive improvement out of everybody at once.