Dont be so quick to judge Joseph

[OttoMets]

Here's the problem as I see it.

The zone, as JB teaches it, requires all five players to covers space as a team. If Joseph doesn't cover the wing when he needs to, or goes behind a screen, or allows his man to drive past him too often, it puts a lot of undue pressure on the rest of the zone. For the zone to work really well, all five players need to be some what synced. This is where Joseph has been thrown into the fire. I'm not sure how may freshmen can come in and execute JB's zone the way it needs to be executed - its a tough assignment.

The problem is, that, when Joseph (and this can be applied to Cooney or our young forwards as well) fails to cover, it becomes all too obvious - you can't hide a missed slide or cover in this zone very well. Joseph just doesn't have the experience yet and JB needs a guard that can execute for the team to excel. Its not fair but it is what is expected at this position in the Syracuse zone defense.

I think folks need to understanding the difficulty a freshmen may have in playing the nuances of the zone, let along developing the physical tools to execute it well. The kid will figure it out. I have said this before, but Joseph, with all the tongue-lashing he gets from JB still listens and gives JB eye-contact (!!!) when JB is chewing him out. Joseph wants to learn and become better and I expect him to. I think we'll all be happy that he's one of our experienced guards come next season.

All true, and for this reason (if not others) everyone who thinks that Bryant or any other freshman could come in and solve all our problems next season is misguided.

As for Joseph, he'll be fine. His defense is lousy and he's too passive for long stretches, but he's improved in a number of ways (he's jumping screens much better in the past couple weeks; his shooting is also a positive development). Also, he makes layups. He's the only guard who started for Syracuse in these last two seasons who can say that.

 

[RF2044]

All true, and everyone who thinks that Bryant or any other freshman could come in and solve all our problems next season is misguided.

As for Joseph, he'll be fine. His defense is lousy and he's too passive for long stretches, but he's improved in a number of ways (he's jumping screens much better in the past couple weeks; his shooting is also a positive development). Also, he makes layups. He's the only guard who started for Syracuse in these last two seasons who can say that.

Agreed. There is NO QUESTION that Joseph has struggled at times, and that he has made some mistakes. There is also no question in my mind that the tools are there. This isn't a Michael Edwards / Josh Wright player who lacks the skill and never will improve beyond a limited ceiling. He's a frosh who isn't ready to start this year, but will be moving forward as a function of having his developmental curve accelerated by being thrown to the wolves.

Very different player / skill set than Jason Hart, but I think the career progression will be similar. He'll make the sophomore jump and be much more effective next year, demonstrating an exponentially more confident handle. By the time he's a junior, he'll be ready to take over primary play making responsibilities from the departed Silent G, and he'll be an impact player as a junior / senior for us as both a scorer / shooter / play maker.

And the defense will improve.

 

[Scotch]

For a player with his kind of quickness, he isn't disruptive on the defensive end at all. He doesn't get steals or rebounds. At times, he totally forgets about getting back. Our horrible transition defense is the only reason Duke stayed in the game in the first half. It was the only way they were scoring.

He is also incapable of preventing dribble penetration at the top of the zone. And once that breaks down, the entire zone breaks down.

 

[jordoo]

Joseph isn't Jonny or Dion. He doesn't posses supreme confidence in himself and his game. The beginning of the season obviously shook him in this respect. He seems to me to be slowly building it back up with his own small successes here and there on the court. He will get there and he will learn to move past the bad plays quickly. Its easy to bang on him because he disappears for long stretches on offense and has struggled mightily in the zone. Lets face it when you don't at least get your hands up every time to try and contest the shot (something that has nothing to do with skill or talent) its beyond frustrating as a coach or fan to watch.

He will get told at season end that he needs to be good defensively or he will be in competition for minutes next year. He will get better on that end and also make at least the standard fresh to soph improvements and be a productive player for us next year even if he is still not the natural PG that Tyler Ennis was last year. Lets not forget we are viewing Kaleb through the lens what we have had recently. Ennis, MCW, Triche, Dion, Scoop all guys that made it look easy compared to Kaleb but also all guys that had help right away when they arrived.

 

[RF2044]

He is also incapable of preventing dribble penetration at the top of the zone. And once that breaks down, the entire zone breaks down.

There's an enormous difference between "incapable" and merely not doing it well as a frosh. If a player like Scoop can round into form as an effective zone defender, then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that Joseph won't be able to. He's faster, more athletic, and bigger. Needs to get stronger and have a better feel for his responsibilities. All of that will come in time.

 

[OttoMets]

Agreed. There is NO QUESTION that Joseph has struggled at times, and that he has made some mistakes. There is also no question in my mind that the tools are there. This isn't a Michael Edwards / Josh Wright player who lacks the skill and never will improve beyond a limited ceiling. He's a frosh who isn't ready to start this year, but will be moving forward as a function of having his developmental curve accelerated by being thrown to the wolves.

Very different player / skill set than Jason Hart, but I think the career progression will be similar. He'll make the sophomore jump and be much more effective next year, demonstrating an exponentially more confident handle. By the time he's a junior, he'll be ready to take over primary play making responsibilities from the departed Silent G, and he'll be an impact player as a junior / senior for us as both a scorer / shooter / play maker.

And the defense will improve.

I like the Hart comparison. He led a bad team that was missing one piece his freshman year: a point guard. Sounds familiar.

(And, while improvement is the topic, Joseph's got a higher ceiling than Hart had, I think. His shooting is so much better.)

 

[OttoMets]

He is also incapable of preventing dribble penetration at the top of the zone. And once that breaks down, the entire zone breaks down.

So were Ennis, Cooney, Flynn, Devendorf, [...]. Pretty much every freshman point guard we've had. Maybe not Triche.

This will improve. Especially if he's ever paired with a better defender than Cooney.

 

[Scotch]

There's an enormous difference between "incapable" and merely not doing it well as a frosh. If a player like Scoop can round into form as an effective zone defender, then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that Joseph won't be able to. He's faster, more athletic, and bigger. Needs to get stronger and have a better feel for his responsibilities. All of that will come in time.

Should have clarified - incapable as of right now. I agree that his physical tools won't prevent him from improving, and the nuances take time to master.

However, we've had young players like Brandon Triche be very solid zone defenders from the get-go.

 

[RF2044]

Should have clarified - incapable as of right now. I agree that his physical tools won't prevent him from improving, and the nuances take time to master.

However, we've had young players like Brandon Triche be very solid zone defenders from the get-go.

True. Brandon was quite physically mature as a frosh and quite a bit stronger than Joseph is right now. He also wasn't much of a playmaker that year [didn't have to be on that squad], and was able to focus more on just playing defense and only scoring when he had to. I feel like Joseph has a little more on his plate due to the team being somewhat depleted, and he's just not up to the task now. However, this is the hand picked guy that JB and the staff wanted--I know he'll be very good in time, it just isn't going to be this year.

Trust me--when this kid is an upperclassman, he'll be an impact player as a scorer / play maker, and we'll be happy that he got thrown into the deep end early on. He'll be like those uconn guards last year who were difference makers as a function of being so highly experienced--only better, smarter, classier, and better looking.

 

[kcsu]

Kid has solid upside. Last year he was playing in front of 2k at most and expecting to learn for a year or so. He has been thrown to the wolves without much of a supporting cast. He is going to be a really good player for us next year and by his junior year should be a stud.

 

[longislandcuse]

Our team isn't that depleted guys.. Acting like we're putting the sisters of the poor out there with Joseph. He's got 2 All-ACC caliber guys in Rak and G plus Cooney who would start or get major minutes on any team in the ACC. I know we have depth issues but let's not act like he's out there on an island of misfit toys.

 

[RF2044]

Our team isn't that depleted guys.. Acting like we're putting the sisters of the poor out there with Joseph. He's got 2 All-ACC caliber guys in Rak and G plus Cooney who would start or get major minutes on any team in the ACC. I know we have depth issues but let's not act like he's out there on an island of misfit toys.

We have a 6 player rotation.

We lost two players who both might have been starters to season ending knee injuries.

By any measure, no matter how hairs are split, this team is depleted.

Nobody is claiming that "depleted" = "has no talent."

 

[We Are Syracuse]

By the time his junior year comes around, a lot of people on here will be singing a different tune.

As we all should because there is absolutely no excuse for going thru a program like this and not improving with all the facilities and staff the cuse has to offer

 

[TBCuse11]

By the time his junior year comes around, a lot of people on here will be singing a different tune.

i dont think anyone has said he will be a bust. have they? The fact is he is not good this year. Borderline awful. But i definitely think by junior year he will be an All ACC type guy.

 

[two3zone]

Another point is, we literally have zero option but him. JB gave some run to Buss hoping to make him an option and now Buss isn't playing to much. JB is still playing to win, I think that speaks volumes to what JB thinks Buss offers to the team.

 

[BuffOrange]

He has been horrible. That is the truth. He is clueless on defense and no, he isn't getting better. That will come. All of it will, I believe. But not having a first rate pt guard doomed our season from the start. albany is correct. He shouldn't be out there. But to pretend that it hasn't been what it has been, is only fooling ourseleves.

It'd be one thing if the turnovers were risky/dumb passes of the Rautins variety. They aren't. They're the "no don't dribble that way", "oh watch behind you" kind that are telegraphed seconds ahead of time. The kind D1 PGs don't make, Freshman or not.

 

[longislandcuse]

We have a 6 player rotation.

We lost two players who both might have been starters to season ending knee injuries.

By any measure, no matter how hairs are split, this team is depleted.

Nobody is claiming that "depleted" = "has no talent."

That sounds like what people are saying though. Lack of depth around Joseph doesn't make sense as to why he struggles so much. Lack of talent would, but that's not an issue here.