Don't Blame Marrone, Syracuse Isn't a Destination Program

[cuse522]

Sorry to break it to everyone who's just angry at Doug for "spurning," SU, but we simply are not a destination program. Recruiting will always be a challenge, the facilities aren't top notch, the fan support is not top notch and thus it's tough to consistently be among the best programs in the country.

Thus, we are not a destination job and we never will be. Sorry, we're just never going to be Florida or USC or Ohio State. Thus, you can't blame any SU coaches for leaving for a better job at a destination program or in the NFL.

It's not like Marrone left to go coach Rutgers!

The fact of the matter is, there will always be a choice to make... You can hire the best candidates available, and if you make a good hire you'll get 3-6 years out of them and then do it again... Or you can hire someone who really wants to stay at Syracuse long term, but there's just no way that's going to be the best candidate available. You may be able to get a decent coach that wants to stay 10+ years, but not a great one.

So, which would you rather Gross look for in his next hire? This will be his most important hire as Athletic Director... When he hired Robinson, he had some room to be wrong and start over. When he hired Doug, it couldn't get any worse anyway. Now, there's a lot at stake. Syracuse football is on the rise, and with the right hire can become a consistent top-40 or so program that spends a lot of time in the top-25. With the wrong hire, it could be the G-Rob era all over again.

Which type of coach do you want? The best candidate available for 3-6 years or someone who wants to stay put for awhile but isn't as good?

 

[Orangepace]

Disagree.

 

[Orangetradition44]

That's true. We've always had a coaching carousel here at SU with limited success.

 

[BORZAK]

HIRE HACKETT

 

[Stevenson]

Rutgers could beat the Bills

 

[Cuseregular]

Solich?

 

[tombacuse]

Disagree . Old school grampa talk

 

[Noexcuse]

Sorry to break it to everyone who's just angry at Doug for "spurning," SU, but we simply are not a destination program. Recruiting will always be a challenge, the facilities aren't top notch, the fan support is not top notch and thus it's tough to consistently be among the best programs in the country.



Which type of coach do you want? The best candidate available for 3-6 years or someone who wants to stay put for awhile but isn't as good?

The best candidate available who wants to stay put for a while.

 

[zibby]

Neither is Nevada. But they held onto a coach who is credited with creating a whole new offensive system. You think he couldn't have gone elsewhere if he wanted to?

There's no doubt in my mind that DM left because he felt he didn't have the support of someone or someones above him.

 

[JD]

Sorry to break it to everyone who's just angry at Doug for "spurning," SU, but we simply are not a destination program. Recruiting will always be a challenge, the facilities aren't top notch, the fan support is not top notch and thus it's tough to consistently be among the best programs in the country.

Thus, we are not a destination job and we never will be. Sorry, we're just never going to be Florida or USC or Ohio State. Thus, you can't blame any SU coaches for leaving for a better job at a destination program or in the NFL.

It's not like Marrone left to go coach Rutgers!

The fact of the matter is, there will always be a choice to make... You can hire the best candidates available, and if you make a good hire you'll get 3-6 years out of them and then do it again... Or you can hire someone who really wants to stay at Syracuse long term, but there's just no way that's going to be the best candidate available. You may be able to get a decent coach that wants to stay 10+ years, but not a great one.

So, which would you rather Gross look for in his next hire? This will be his most important hire as Athletic Director... When he hired Robinson, he had some room to be wrong and start over. When he hired Doug, it couldn't get any worse anyway. Now, there's a lot at stake. Syracuse football is on the rise, and with the right hire can become a consistent top-40 or so program that spends a lot of time in the top-25. With the wrong hire, it could be the G-Rob era all over again.

Which type of coach do you want? The best candidate available for 3-6 years or someone who wants to stay put for awhile but isn't as good?

Buzz Shaw is that you?

 

[retro44]

neither are my seasons tickets

 

[SUfanNC]

Oh yeah. Boise was a hell of a job 10 yrs ago. Come play on the only field that is blue. Sahweeeeet.

 

[OrangeAl]

Over the last 60 years no SU coach has left to go to another college job. They either go the NFL, retire or get fired. We ARE a college destination.

 

[Resonator]

Solich?

That'd be an interesting choice.

He was in a no-win situation at Nebraska, following a legend. He still won 59 games in six-seasons. He's done a pretty good job at Ohio, too.

With what Syracuse can offer, he could be a good choice to keep the momentum going.

 

[tep624]

Neither is Nevada. But they held onto a coach who is credited with creating a whole new offensive system. You think he couldn't have gone elsewhere if he wanted to?

There's no doubt in my mind that DM left because he felt he didn't have the support of someone or someones above him.

Did Nevada's HC have the opportunity to be a NFL head coach? It's not like Marrone left to coach Bowling Green.

If anything this makes the SU job MORE attractive to prospective coaches because we have a record of HC's who have been given NFl HC opportunities, which if I'm not mistaken is the Apex of the football head coaching hierarchy.

If he left for a lesser opportunity I'd tend to agree with you, but he struck while the iron was hot for a major promotion. Who really knows what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[OrangePA]

See Schwartzwalder, Maloney, McPherson, Pasqualoni.

Yes, Mac left after ten years but he was getting to the end of his coaching career.

And most important, Marrone declared that this was his destination job!

 

[cuse522]

That's true. We've always had a coaching carousel here at SU with limited success.

When's the last time a head coach was a hot commodity and had the opportunity to leave? (More on this below)

Disagree . Old school grampa talk

I'm 26.

Neither is Nevada. But they held onto a coach who is credited with creating a whole new offensive system. You think he couldn't have gone elsewhere if he wanted to?

When it comes to Chris Ault, keep in mind Nevada wasn't DIA until 1992. Ault didn't coach in '93 (not sure why), then coached '94 and '95 before stepping down, thus taking him out of consideration one would assume. He came back in 2005 and the results have been solid but not overwhelming.

Over the last 60 years no SU coach has left to go to another college job. They either go the NFL, retire or get fired. We ARE a college destination.

You're going back to a different time, when it was much more common for coaches to spend their entire career or long chunks of time in one place, and when Syracuse was a more prominent program. I mean, 60 years ago is seven years before the National Title.

Combine that with the fact that no Syracuse head coach has had a chance to jump to a better job in at least 15 years, and I think it's much more valuable to look forward to figure out what will happen in the future than to use the program's history.

 

[OrangeAl]

You're going back to a different time, when it was much more common for coaches to spend their entire career or long chunks of time in one place, and when Syracuse was a more prominent program. I mean, 60 years ago is seven years before the National Title.

Combine that with the fact that no Syracuse head coach has had a chance to jump to a better job in at least 15 years, and I think it's much more valuable to look forward to figure out what will happen in the future than to use the program's history.

Hello, the last 60 years is a continuous span of time that includes your lifetime and today, not something that happened 60 years ago.

 

[dasher]

When's the last time a head coach was a hot commodity and had the opportunity to leave? (More on this below)



I'm 26.



When it comes to Chris Ault, keep in mind Nevada wasn't DIA until 1992. Ault didn't coach in '93 (not sure why), then coached '94 and '95 before stepping down, thus taking him out of consideration one would assume. He came back in 2005 and the results have been solid but not overwhelming.



You're going back to a different time, when it was much more common for coaches to spend their entire career or long chunks of time in one place, and when Syracuse was a more prominent program. I mean, 60 years ago is seven years before the National Title.

Combine that with the fact that no Syracuse head coach has had a chance to jump to a better job in at least 15 years, and I think it's much more valuable to look forward to figure out what will happen in the future than to use the program's history.

People were saying the same thing about our basketball team 12 years or so ago. Everyone forgets that now. The weather was too bad to recruit top players..etc etc..

 

[VaSaltine]

Sorry to break it to everyone who's just angry at Doug for "spurning," SU, but we simply are not a destination program. Recruiting will always be a challenge, the facilities aren't top notch, the fan support is not top notch and thus it's tough to consistently be among the best programs in the country.

Thus, we are not a destination job and we never will be. Sorry, we're just never going to be Florida or USC or Ohio State. Thus, you can't blame any SU coaches for leaving for a better job at a destination program or in the NFL.

It's not like Marrone left to go coach Rutgers!

The fact of the matter is, there will always be a choice to make... You can hire the best candidates available, and if you make a good hire you'll get 3-6 years out of them and then do it again... Or you can hire someone who really wants to stay at Syracuse long term, but there's just no way that's going to be the best candidate available. You may be able to get a decent coach that wants to stay 10+ years, but not a great one.

So, which would you rather Gross look for in his next hire? This will be his most important hire as Athletic Director... When he hired Robinson, he had some room to be wrong and start over. When he hired Doug, it couldn't get any worse anyway. Now, there's a lot at stake. Syracuse football is on the rise, and with the right hire can become a consistent top-40 or so program that spends a lot of time in the top-25. With the wrong hire, it could be the G-Rob era all over again.

Which type of coach do you want? The best candidate available for 3-6 years or someone who wants to stay put for awhile but isn't as good?

I respect your point of view, but respectfully disagree.

 

[reedny]

You know what, 522, if this isn't a "destination program" in your estimation, then that IS on Doug Marone. That's exactly why he was brought in -- to make this program better, to win games, to restore discipline and turn SU football into a destination. That's what it means when you take a "dream job".

Unfortunately, Doug's job was only half done when he decided his dream changed. That's fine, for him. But now his alma matter has to resuscitate SU FB once again. It's on better footing, and he was good while he was here. But in order to better his career, he's left our recruits and the whole SU community hanging.

So if it's not a destination, then maybe he should have stuck around for a while longer until it was. That's on him.

 

[Willy75]

I have no problem with DM moving on, but big issues with the classless way he went about it.
I'm all for Shafer, or Diaco, Butch Davis or Randy Shannon if we go outside.

 

[cuse522]

Hello, the last 60 years is a continuous span of time that includes your lifetime and today, not something that happened 60 years ago.

And the closer you get to now, the more SU football has not had coaches who were even considered for bigger and better jobs. I didn't follow SU sports until I got there, so while I know the history of who coached and when and how they did, I don't know for sure who was considered for NFL or bigger college jobs, but I'd have to imagine Coach P never really was. Maybe at the end of the McNabb era? So decades ago it wasn't something that happened very often and in the last 15-20 years there has only been one coach with a real chance to go to a better job and he took it.

People were saying the same thing about our basketball team 12 years or so ago. Everyone forgets that now. The weather was too bad to recruit top players..etc etc..

I don't see much of a comparison there. 12 years ago? Syracuse was in the Sweet 16 in 2000 and 1998. Made the tourney all but one year from 93 to 2000. Lost in the title game in 1996. Maybe people were saying it, but if they were, I don't see what they could have been basing it on.

You know what, 522, if this isn't a "destination program" in your estimation, then that IS on Doug Marone. That's exactly why he was brought in -- to make this program better, to win games, to restore discipline and turn SU football into a destination. That's what it means when you take a "dream job".

I disagree about that. Syracuse will never, ever, ever be a destination program. The job could be held in higher regard than it is now, but it will never be on the level where Florida, Alabama, USC, Texas, Ohio State, etc are. It could be a destination for SOME candidates, but only if they are not good enough to go to higher level.

Unfortunately, Doug's job was only half done when he decided his dream changed.

This I agree with, but I don't blame anyone who leaves one position before their "job" is finished because they were offered a better one. Especially in sports. If he went 5-7 or 4-8 next year, would his job be safe? I'm not particularly negative about our outlook player wise, but losing Nassib and Lemon does mean there is a risk of a step backward. The bottom line is, he wouldn't have been more than a couple of years away from being fired... So why should he show more loyalty than he'd potentially get? Same reason I don't fault NFL players whose contracts aren't guaranteed for holding out. Teams want them to honor their contracts, but they have no qualms about dishonoring the contracts when they cut them. Similar principle.

That's fine, for him. But now his alma matter has to resuscitate SU FB once again. It's on better footing, and he was good while he was here. But in order to better his career, he's left our recruits and the whole SU community hanging.

SU FB doesn't need to be resuscitated, it just needs to keep going forward and not stagger backward. Gross's decisions about how to proceed are critical. Did he leave us hanging a bit, yes, but not THAT much more than if he had done this in two years and for all we know, Gross had some inkling this was coming.

I have no problem with DM moving on, but big issues with the classless way he went about it.

I mean, he didn't exactly handle it like Rich Rodriguez. Let's not confuse our disappointment with anger. Put it this way, if they brought him out before a game next year, I'd say he deserved a standing ovation for what he did for the program.

 

[reedny]

I disagree about that. Syracuse will never, ever, ever be a destination program. The job could be held in higher regard than it is now, but it will never be on the level where Florida, Alabama, USC, Texas, Ohio State, etc are. It could be a destination for SOME candidates, but only if they are not good enough to go to higher level.


Then you have a weird definition of "destination"... since you picked out football factories for whom academics are bottom priority (does the Roll Tide even have classes?). We may not be ivy league, but we're an excellent school with a strong academic tradition ... a category in which none of your "dream" schools fits (although USC and, more marginally, Texas, are decent).

My definition of "destination" is a SCHOOL, first of all, with a strong academic and FB tradition, second and third. ND fits this. So does Michigan, which is 5 times the school that OSU is ... but fails by your limited definition (pure number of wins without ANY other considerations).

And, not for nothing, but I believe it was DOUG MARONE who defined SU as a destination by saying it was his dream job. Those were his words, and now you're berating the school to justify your argument. Marone had a vision for SU that many of us share, but you apparently don't. And that's fine.

I suggest a steady diet of SEC (you won't hear about any academic casualties, trust me).

 

[Willy75]

And the closer you get to now, the more SU football has not had coaches who were even considered for bigger and better jobs. I didn't follow SU sports until I got there, so while I know the history of who coached and when and how they did, I don't know for sure who was considered for NFL or bigger college jobs, but I'd have to imagine Coach P never really was. Maybe at the end of the McNabb era? So decades ago it wasn't something that happened very often and in the last 15-20 years there has only been one coach with a real chance to go to a better job and he took it.



I don't see much of a comparison there. 12 years ago? Syracuse was in the Sweet 16 in 2000 and 1998. Made the tourney all but one year from 93 to 2000. Lost in the title game in 1996. Maybe people were saying it, but if they were, I don't see what they could have been basing it on.



I disagree about that. Syracuse will never, ever, ever be a destination program. The job could be held in higher regard than it is now, but it will never be on the level where Florida, Alabama, USC, Texas, Ohio State, etc are. It could be a destination for SOME candidates, but only if they are not good enough to go to higher level.



This I agree with, but I don't blame anyone who leaves one position before their "job" is finished because they were offered a better one. Especially in sports. If he went 5-7 or 4-8 next year, would his job be safe? I'm not particularly negative about our outlook player wise, but losing Nassib and Lemon does mean there is a risk of a step backward. The bottom line is, he wouldn't have been more than a couple of years away from being fired... So why should he show more loyalty than he'd potentially get? Same reason I don't fault NFL players whose contracts aren't guaranteed for holding out. Teams want them to honor their contracts, but they have no qualms about dishonoring the contracts when they cut them. Similar principle.



SU FB doesn't need to be resuscitated, it just needs to keep going forward and not stagger backward. Gross's decisions about how to proceed are critical. Did he leave us hanging a bit, yes, but not THAT much more than if he had done this in two years and for all we know, Gross had some inkling this was coming.



I mean, he didn't exactly handle it like Rich Rodriguez. Let's not confuse our disappointment with anger. Put it this way, if they brought him out before a game next year, I'd say he deserved a standing ovation for what he did for the program.

Right he handled it more like Edsall or Graham at Pitt. If they bring him out (which I doubt) I'll go get a beer.