Don't look now but the NCAA world could be turned upside down.

[HtownOrange]

I think the NCAA is asleep at the wheel on this issue, but that the conference commissioners have a settlement plan in mind. Most experts think it's crazy for the NCAA to let this get to the Supreme Court because the damages could end up in the billions.

Wouldn't surprise me if the top leagues adopted the Olympic model that Bilas promotes because the money would just funnel direct from booster to athletes and the AD's, admins and coaches keep their bloated salaries. Let's face it, we have that in place now in some respects, especially in basketball where kids play for AAU teams sponsored by one of the shoe companies and go to a college with the same company. It also handles the non-revenue issue because you can be a lacrosse, field hockey, track athlete and get endorsement/sponsor money if you are at the top of your sport.

It's nice to think that a college education is a good enough incentive, but that's far from the reality in the sports with the potential of a pro career. What had been limited to hoops, football, hockey and baseball is spilling over to many other sports.

This could work.

 

[Timonen]

apples and oranges -
schools dont get paid millions for band kids -no bowl games-
if there was money and corruption it would be like football-

the likeness thing with named jerseys is wrong -but please keep pay out of college sports

They get paid, in part, because there's an agreement with the monopoly that runs the professional organization. Eliminate that and the kids wouldn't have to come to the school and submit to the nonsense in the first place.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Someone with a music scholarship gets a free education, too, but they can be sponsored and go on tour for pay with their band.

Beyond that -- a physics students on full scholarship develops a theorem that will help people with some amazing new thing. He is lauded as the next Albert Einstein, and signs autographs for money while on scholarship at that school. Does he get to keep that money?

The system is not only unfair, it doesn't even make sense. I'm a capitalist by nature, and if a kid can make money off his name, why shouldn't he? Why is it fair for another entity to come in and say "you can't make money off your name, but our organization can." It's insane.

 

[HtownOrange]

Beyond that -- a physics students on full scholarship develops a theorem that will help people with some amazing new thing. He is lauded as the next Albert Einstein, and signs autographs for money while on scholarship at that school. Does he get to keep that money?

The system is not only unfair, it doesn't even make sense. I'm a capitalist by nature, and if a kid can make money off his name, why shouldn't he? Why is it fair for another entity to come in and say "you can't make money off your name, but our organization can." It's insane.

As you say, the kid writes a theorem, or another kid creates a formula; the school keeps the patents and rights to the theorum and the formula to make money off those kids. Sports is similar, but schools need to strike while that iron is hot and market the names while kids are still playing for them to make the money of them. I agree, it is unbalanced, but it is another revenue stream for the schools, the kids still get a free ride at college but they don't make the same monies, nor is it in equity to what the kids you identified make.

 

[xc84]

Beyond that -- a physics students on full scholarship develops a theorem that will help people with some amazing new thing. He is lauded as the next Albert Einstein, and signs autographs for money while on scholarship at that school. Does he get to keep that money?

The system is not only unfair, it doesn't even make sense. I'm a capitalist by nature, and if a kid can make money off his name, why shouldn't he? Why is it fair for another entity to come in and say "you can't make money off your name, but our organization can." It's insane.

Yep...so many physics students signing autographs for money. Great example!

 

[CuseOnly]

The problem with a possible settlement is that the former players that are suing have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I also don't believe that they would allow the NCAA or conferences to limit how much they can make off their likeness or name. Not even sure that would be legal and why would it have to go through and be regulated by the NCAA.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Yep...so many physics students signing autographs for money. Great example!

The point of the example was to show that two people both getting full rides to a university (one because of their brain, the other because of their body) are treated completely differently. Yes, it's far fetched, but it doesn't change the point that the NCAA very publicly makes money (a lot of it) off "student athletes" because it's in the best interest of the athlete. What complete garbage. Luckily people like you are not making the final decision, and it seems the law will also agree with me on this point.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

As you say, the kid writes a theorem, or another kid creates a formula; the school keeps the patents and rights to the theorum and the formula to make money off those kids. Sports is similar, but schools need to strike while that iron is hot and market the names while kids are still playing for them to make the money of them. I agree, it is unbalanced, but it is another revenue stream for the schools, the kids still get a free ride at college but they don't make the same monies, nor is it in equity to what the kids you identified make.

I find it hard to believe that all the people on this thread who say students shouldn't be able to make money off their likeness wouldn't be completely and totally incensed if they were in that same situation.

 

[xc84]

The point of the example was to show that two people both getting full rides to a university (one because of their brain, the other because of their body) are treated completely differently. Yes, it's far fetched, but it doesn't change the point that the NCAA very publicly makes money (a lot of it) off "student athletes" because it's in the best interest of the athlete. What complete garbage. Luckily people like you are not making the final decision, and it seems the law will also agree with me on this point.

Few students get full rides like football players. Football players already get more than almost every class of student. Sure, I bet if you really looked hard, you could find some person in the United States getting a full ride and making money off of their chosen educational field. We'll see what the law agrees with. We are far from any impactful decisions. The fact of the matter is, every single college football player can, if they want, take their talents to the open market and make money on their own. Nothing is stopping them. Leave school and have at it. Without the universities backing them, no one wants their autographs.

 

[KaiserUEO]

set rules, like pay for play.

starters get $$, bench warmers get none.

"do you want to ride the bench for 2 or 3 years at ohio st, and make no $$??

or do you want to come to Syracuse. Start...and get $$$ by august 31?

you can be you in this falls ncaa game.

your call kid......"

 

[xc84]

set rules, like pay for play.

starters get $$, bench warmers get none.

"do you want to ride the bench for 2 or 3 years at ohio st, and make no $$??

or do you want to come to Syracuse. Start...and get $$$ by august 31?

you can be you in this falls ncaa game.

your call kid......"

Yeah, this is going to end well. So only the starters get paid. Hmmm.. So if a kid does not start but plays a lot...

And if a kid gets hurt?

And how much should they get paid? Shouldn't e.g Manzel get a ton more than his chump-change teammates? (e.g. the ones who block for him) The market would dictate it for the star. I am sure the market would want to pay Jonny football much more than some lineman. But that's fair because if you give everyone the same amount, it does not compensate players fairly recognizing that some earn much more money for the school than others.

 

[Lawrinson14]

If the players were to get paid, wouldn't this make them school, and in the case of public universities, state employees? If anything, this would just subject them to harsher criticism and a more strict set of rules to have to follow.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Yeah, this is going to end well. So only the starters get paid. Hmmm.. So if a kid does not start but plays a lot...

And if a kid gets hurt?

And how much should they get paid? Shouldn't e.g Manzel get a ton more than his chump-change teammates? (e.g. the ones who block for him) The market would dictate it for the star. I am sure the market would want to pay Jonny football much more than some lineman. But that's fair because if you give everyone the same amount, it does not compensate players fairly recognizing that some earn much more money for the school than others.

there is no right way to do it.

just keep in mind that they are all cattle and like you say, some cattle are worth more.

the higher priced cattle need to see that green and therefore, more should chase it and go somewhere where they can get it easier and faster.

of course that wont stop booster bob from payin the backups, but hes likely paying the starters now anyway.

 

[mayselc]

if my company uses my likeness to promote it do i get paid? there are tons of people having their pictures used to promote things that dont get any money.

Not true. Even if your work product is owned by the company, your likeness is not. Companies must seek a photo release to use an employee's likeness.

 

[Crusty]

If the players were to get paid, wouldn't this make them school, and in the case of public universities, state employees? If anything, this would just subject them to harsher criticism and a more strict set of rules to have to follow.

Not necessarily - they could be independent contractors.

 

[xc84]

Opening this up to payments based on however much a player can extract from his expos

Not true. Even if your work product is owned by the company, your likeness is not. Companies must seek a photo release to use an employee's likeness.

The statement was "there are tons of people having their pictures used to promote things that dont get any money." That's in fact true.

 

[HtownOrange]

set rules, like pay for play.

starters get $$, bench warmers get none.

"do you want to ride the bench for 2 or 3 years at ohio st, and make no $$??

or do you want to come to Syracuse. Start...and get $$$ by august 31?

you can be you in this falls ncaa game.

your call kid......"

The problem is that the SEC will still pay the bench warmers more than the honest schools pay their starters.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Few students get full rides like football players. Football players already get more than almost every class of student. Sure, I bet if you really looked hard, you could find some person in the United States getting a full ride and making money off of their chosen educational field. We'll see what the law agrees with. We are far from any impactful decisions. The fact of the matter is, every single college football player can, if they want, take their talents to the open market and make money on their own. Nothing is stopping them. Leave school and have at it. Without the universities backing them, no one wants their autographs.

Umm, not their FB talents

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

 

[xc84]

Umm, not their FB talents

Sure they can...but no one will pay most of them. I guess they are not worth as much as some think.

 

[All4SU]

I believe we, as a society, will be doing a great disservice to these young men (and future student athletes) if we start paying them. Rather than just trying to throw scraps of money at them to placate them, we should be trying to fix the system. Call me a blind optimist if you like, I don't care.

This is my reality:
Paying kids simply perpetuates a system which is flawed. Sure, we as fans think it's great. But these kids deserve a chance to get a real education. Most D1 athletes believe they will make a living playing their sport...cash in on the big money. The vast majority will NEVER see a dime from the NFL or the NBA. 99% of them.

If you throw some peanuts at them in college -- enough to keep them from suing your a$$ for example, all you will be doing is prolonging the inevitable. They will graduate (or not) with no legitimate education, and no career potential. You'll just keep them in sneakers and McDonalds for a few years, and then back they will go from whence they came. "Thanks for your time. Don't let the door hit you on the way out."

If you try to FIX the system, you just MIGHT be able to change the was our society views college sports, and more importantly, education. Help the pros set up their minor leagues for basketball and football. Let kids who want to play for pay go there and earn a few bucks for a year or two. Make a scholarship a legitimate road to an education for a kid who will likely never see the big money of the NBA or the NFL. Stress the value of the education. When those "pros" are back in their neighborhoods in 2 years, with nothing to show for it, the message may start to get through to people:

Your athletic abilities are a road to an education, a career, and a LIFE. Not to the NFL or the NBA.

I don't want to introduce race into this discussion, but it's there, so I will. A majority of the athletes we are talking about here are minorities. If I was a part of the black leadership in this country, I would be screaming to everyone who would listen, that paying these players is just another form of indentured servitude -- perhaps even more than it is now.

We are using these kids, and we have to break that cycle. The answer is not to throw them some scraps, simply prolonging the inevitable. The answer is to get them on track to an education. And we, as fans, can just $&% off. It doesn't matter if we get big TV contracts for our conferences, or if we get prime time ESPN games. Our schools will not shrivel up and die. College sports will not go away. It may look a little different, but it will survive. Fix it. Don't just grease it up.

 

[IthacaMatt]

There are multiple issues here:

The NCAA's position of "authority" (don't laugh, the NCAA is only doing what the schools who are part of the NCAA want them to do)
The NCAA selling players' likenesses
Athletes pay for play


These are my predictions:

ON NCAA Authority, the court is likely to not harm this as it is a club and the club can set its own rules.
On selling players' likenesses, the court is likely to find that the players should be compensated in some fashion, the court will recognize a free ride has much value, but so does a star athlete's name/likeness on a jersey.
On Athletes pay for play, the court will probably rule it is OK to do so but that the "club" (read NCAA) can set rules/guidelines.

The net result will be that the schools with money (read P5) start handing some $ over to the players, not much, though. Most likely, part of the signing with any school will include a flat fee for rights to their likenesses and an NCAA set limit on a stipend.

The above are just guesses. I have not spent time researching the transcripts, applicable statutes and the legal arguments.

Some interesting discussion here. My two cents: I would allow players to receive a 10% royalty on the sale of their jerseys, and I would permit them to sign autographs off-campus (like Johnny Manziel).

Players already receive a bit of money in excess of the cost of tuition (around $2-3,000, I think) if they demonstrate economic need. So they already do have "walking around" money.

I think that beyond that, once you start paying players money for real, then it becomes a bidding war for who gets the top recruits - I know, some people feel that that's what's happening already (which QB reportedly was looking for $200K to go to an SEC school a few years ago?). But if it's out in the open, then Michigan says to a five star QB, "We'll give you an allowance of $100K a year", and many schools will be foreclosed from getting top athletes. Talent will become more concentrated.

As for the video games, EA Sports settled out for $40M, but what happens with future game installments? Who gets the money on behalf of the players? (Their lawyers?) I don't see any merit to the claim that players should also get paid separately for being on TV. It's a public event that the school is putting on, and the player is being compensated by the school. It's the teams that people are watching, not individual players.

For those who talk about the value of an education that is being offered to these kids, too many drop out or leave early for the pros. If a kid gets a scholarship to play for a Division 1 school, and they don't finish their degree before their eligibility expires or they withdraw / go pro, then I think it would be fair to offer those kids the opportunity to come back and continue to work toward their degree for a period of say 10 years after their class graduated for free.

 

[Timonen]

If I was a part of the black leadership in this country, I would be screaming to everyone who would listen, that paying these players is just another form of indentured servitude -- perhaps even more than it is now.

If paying them is indentured servitude, what is it called when they are forced to go to college for no pay because of an arbitrary rule that the sole professional organization made up?

 

[xc84]

If paying them is indentured servitude, what is it called when they are forced to go to college for no pay because of an arbitrary rule that the sole professional organization made up?

I know of no player who was "forced" to go to college and football players receive the opportunity for an education worth in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's how they are paid. Most students would die to get that.

 

[Timonen]

I know of no player who was "forced" to go to college and football players receive the opportunity for an education worth in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's how they are paid. Most students would die to get that.

"most students would..." is a straw man argument. Most students don't have marketable skills. The NFL says you need to be in college for x years or be a certain age...so if you want to be a professional football player, you are forced to attend. What's that called? There's a middle ground which is how baseball and hockey do it. Much more equitable/flexible if paying is off the table.

Also, we really overestimate the "value" of education if the people attending don't want to be there for an education. If you give me $100K in My Little Pony dolls, that may have $100K in value for someone who loves MLP but has $0 for me. Same with formal education for a large share of folks hellbent on playing pro sports.

 

[xc84]

"most students would..." is a straw man argument. Most students don't have marketable skills. The NFL says you need to be in college for x years or be a certain age...so if you want to be a professional football player, you are forced to attend. What's that called? There's a middle ground which is how baseball and hockey do it. Much more equitable/flexible if paying is off the table.

Ok...change it to "all college students"

Most college football players have the same "marketable skills" as non-athletes. If the NFL is screwing these marketable athletes, then why not sue the NFL? Again, no one is forced to attend college. I think Ray Seals would differ on whether someone is forced to attend college too. As for the middle ground...if these players are so "marketbable" then by all means they should jump ship and some savvy businessman can take advantage of this marketable sweet spot. The fact is, right now, outside of the university setting that provides these players with a handsome benefit worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, no one wants to see them. If that were not true, we would not be discussing it.