Don't Worry About Our Freshmen | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Don't Worry About Our Freshmen

CusefanATL said:
the only reason people are worrying is because those same people incredibly thought we would play 4 frosh and go 11 deep.

the rational people arent worried.
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That's 5 frosh. :)
Chinonso-Obokoh-flus.jpg
 
Trueblue25 said:
There's been some worrying about our freshmen outside of Ennis on this board.

Stop.

BJ Johnson may be the youngest player in the class of 2013. I don't even know how high his ceiling could be yet he's so young. I suspect that he will be a great contributor, but likely not until his junior year. Right now, he's young mentally, and needs to grow into and put muscle on that nice frame of his. He has quickness, tenacity and plenty of talent.

Roberson has a sweeeeeet free throw stroke and looks like he could grow into a nice offensive role next year. He however, is also not ready yet this year to contribute. Beast needs to put on 10 pounds, then I suspect he could possibly turn into an offensive machine. I'm not worried at all about Roberson, he's not physically ready just yet for ACC play, and that's fine because we have several experienced players who play his position at forward.

If anything, Patterson to me has been incredibly impressive. I don't know if he's 100% ready to contribute. But damn, other teams would kill to have him, I know IU would. The kid had a great game against Binghamton (granted low competition). He looked great distributing the ball and was very active on the glass. It's nice seeing him put on a nice little performance like he did last night, when I remember how nervous and shaky he was in Canada. I'd say right now out of the non starting freshman, Buss is the most physically ready and most capable of contributing right now.

Fortunately, none of these players have to contribute right now. We are not other teams who bring in exciting prospects and depend on them to immediately contribute. We are Syracuse University, we take good players and turn them into exceptional players after 3 or 4 years. Bj, Tyler, and Buss are in a great position to play their freshman minutes when given, study JB and Hopkins and soak in the experience and knowledge they'll gain practicing against and watching players like CJ, Cooney, Grant etc.

We are in great shape.
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In the past our #9-#11 guys were just that- #9-#11 guys. This year I can picture them being the stars of the team in a couple of years. We've had a great run in this decade and I don't see it ending any time soon.
 
SWC75 said:
In the past our #9-#11 guys were just that- #9-#11 guys. This year I can picture them being the stars of the team in a couple of years. We've had a great run in this decade and I don't see it ending any time soon.
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BJ and Roberson has very high ceilings in my opinion, take it or leave it.

I think Buss is already a pretty decent player.
 
As I've said a number of times before, I do believe BJ should have redshirted. As have many others. He does not appear to be physically ready to compete at this level yet and needs time to learn our system. I'm not certain how a redshirt year would have hurt him. If he fulfills the promise that many have for him, he could still leave early. If however, he ends up needing that 5th year to meet his potential, he will not have it.

And I think we should be free to say that. To be honest, I wonder if some people on this board hold back any criticism of BJ or will in the future because his father posts here - including in this thread. And I wonder if we have gone too far in our assessment of his future due in part to that reason as well. It's human nature - if one of us was sitting next to a parent of a player in the stands and knew it, it's likely we would not be voicing any criticism of that player during the game - we'd only be positive.

He was a good recruit but not thought of in the same light as the top recruits. Of course, that doesn't mean he won't end up being better than many of them. The coaching staff knows talent. We all hope he achieves at a high level and we'll all be rooting for him to do so. But he needs to prove himself first and he won't get that chance until at least next year.

The reality is that he is very unlikely to play much this year barring injury. He's playing behind one of the best players in the country at SF and he's got a couple guys ahead of him at SG. And so far in the limited minutes he has played, he has played poorly, shooting 1-12 from 3. When you don't play much, it's tough to get in a rhythm. But those are the facts.

Now of course, I'm not saying his Dad should not post here - it's cool to have him as part of our forum. And I'm very glad his son is an Orangeman. I respect the decision BJ made I'm sure in consultation with his parents and the coaching staff. Ultimately, it was their decision to make and I hope it works out for the best.

Let's Go Orange and best of luck to BJ in his Orange career!
 
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thebigeast44 said:
As I've said a number of times before, I do believe BJ should have redshirted. As have many others. He does not appear to be physically ready to compete at this level yet and needs time to learn our system. I'm not certain how a redshirt year would have hurt him. If he fulfills the promise that many have for him, he could still leave early. If however, he ends up needing that 5th year to meet his potential, he will not have it.

And I think we should be free to say that. To be honest, I wonder if some people on this board hold back any criticism of BJ or will in the future because his father posts here - including in this thread. And I wonder if we have gone too far in our assessment of his future due in part to that reason as well. It's human nature - if one of us was sitting next to a parent of a player in the stands and knew it, it's likely we would not be voicing any criticism of that player during the game - we'd only be positive.

He was a good recruit but not thought of in the same light as the top recruits. Of course, that doesn't mean he won't end up being better than many of them. The coaching staff knows talent. We all hope he achieves at a high level and we'll all be rooting for him to do so. But he needs to prove himself first and he won't get that chance until at least next year.

The reality is that he is very unlikely to play much this year barring injury. He's playing behind one of the best players in the country at SF and he's got a couple guys ahead of him at SG. And so far in the limited minutes he has played, he has played poorly, shooting 1-12 from 3. When you don't play much, it's tough to get in a rhythm. But those are the facts.

Now of course, I'm not saying his Dad should not post here - it's cool to have him as part of our forum. And I'm very glad his son is an Orangeman. I respect the decision BJ made I'm sure in consultation with his parents and the coaching staff. Ultimately, it was their decision to make and I hope it works out for the best.

Let's Go Orange and best of luck to BJ in his Orange career!
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A very thoughtful and "gutsy"(well, message board gutsy) post that I mostly agree with. It's encouraging to see people go against herd mentality, and that's how God/nature works the beauty of evolution and progress. Apparently we do as well, and those who are in the minority opinion often face great resistance(reference Columbus, and any number of astronomers back in the day), so I'd like your post for that alone.

On that same note, maybe BJ and possibly those advising him wanted to go against what some here might consider conventional wisdom. Which of us can say for certain how that will work out in the end? Either way, what's done is done. My Dad used to say "all roads lead to Rome". Like the OP said(in fashion that rivaled even some of my drunken melodramatic posts!) things are going to work out, even if we don't see them as optimal. I do feel the issue with family here, but I think there is a lesson to be learned from that. Imagine for a moment the young gal in section 317's dad read these boards. How would some of you feel then? Heck, for all we know BJ's family may look down on those antics more than well thought out opinions on redshirting. They certainly wouldn't be alone if they did.
 
I think someone brought this up earlier. It is possible that BJ just didn't want to be in school for 5 years. He might just want to get his degree in 4 or less years, regardless of his success on the court. I'm making assumptions here, so take it for what it's worth.
 
cusetown1 said:
Who said that? Also a comment like " the rational people aren't worried" , that really sounds far from arrogant or should I say condescending?
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We are back on this AGAIN? do you have a personal vendetta against me? the posts ended on Sunday... I highly doubt it was even on the 1st page or 1st few pages. Did you search all of my posts to find something I said that could be construed as arrogant without even responding to the 2 questions I asked in the other thread?
 
CusefanATL said:
We are back on this AGAIN? do you have a personal vendetta against me? the posts ended on Sunday... I highly doubt it was even on the 1st page or 1st few pages. Did you search all of my posts to find something I said that could be construed as arrogant without even responding to the 2 questions I asked in the other thread?
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Not at all. I was reading the threads last night and stumbled on this one.
 
thebigeast44 said:
As I've said a number of times before, I do believe BJ should have redshirted. As have many others. He does not appear to be physically ready to compete at this level yet and needs time to learn our system. I'm not certain how a redshirt year would have hurt him. If he fulfills the promise that many have for him, he could still leave early. If however, he ends up needing that 5th year to meet his potential, he will not have it.

And I think we should be free to say that. To be honest, I wonder if some people on this board hold back any criticism of BJ or will in the future because his father posts here - including in this thread. And I wonder if we have gone too far in our assessment of his future due in part to that reason as well. It's human nature - if one of us was sitting next to a parent of a player in the stands and knew it, it's likely we would not be voicing any criticism of that player during the game - we'd only be positive.

He was a good recruit but not thought of in the same light as the top recruits. Of course, that doesn't mean he won't end up being better than many of them. The coaching staff knows talent. We all hope he achieves at a high level and we'll all be rooting for him to do so. But he needs to prove himself first and he won't get that chance until at least next year.

The reality is that he is very unlikely to play much this year barring injury. He's playing behind one of the best players in the country at SF and he's got a couple guys ahead of him at SG. And so far in the limited minutes he has played, he has played poorly, shooting 1-12 from 3. When you don't play much, it's tough to get in a rhythm. But those are the facts.

Now of course, I'm not saying his Dad should not post here - it's cool to have him as part of our forum. And I'm very glad his son is an Orangeman. I respect the decision BJ made I'm sure in consultation with his parents and the coaching staff. Ultimately, it was their decision to make and I hope it works out for the best.

Let's Go Orange and best of luck to BJ in his Orange career!
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You claim you respect the families decision yet say you have said many times that BJ should have red-shirted. Seems kind of contradictory to me. BJ's decision probably involved more variables than just how many minutes he got his frosh year. Healthy red shirts are not the norm in college basketball.

Yes, I temper what I say because I believe the poster who says he is BJ's dad. I would give the same courtesy to others if they claim it (and have with someone I thought was Billy E's dad).

Your third paragraph comments about "not thought of in the same light as the top recruits" and "he needs to prove himself first and he won't get that chance until at least next year" are sickening statements. JB did not have to bring BJ in. We have plenty of 2's and 3's - the highly recruited Roberson is unlikely to see major minutes. JB saw incredible potential. And the idea that BJ can't prove himself in practice, by working hard, by improving, gaining JB's trust, is just ridiculous.
 
cusetown1 said:
Not at all. I was reading the threads last night and stumbled on this one.
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I think there are only two options for you bros.
  • Talk out your "feelings"
  • Knife fight, edowd style
The only viable options, in my opinion. Either way, it will be settled.
:)
 
SU's freshmen are all talented. They ran a lineup out a few games ago: Coleman, Roberson, Johnson, Patterson, and Ennis,
and that lineup would start at probably 300 D1 basketball schools. They'd be that "mid-major that nobody wants to play"
come tournament time.

That said, I still wish 1-2 of them would manage to work their way into the rotation, and here's why. If you take the 3 who
play, what you still lack is a consistent outside (maybe even midrange) shooter, and a true ballhandler. Gbinije is trying to
be a 2G/backup point guard, but if SU happens to matchup against a team that can play D like Louisville, he hasn't yet
shown he's ready to handle the ball against that pressure. And while both he and Grant are extremely talented, neither has
demonstrated a consistent outside shot. Flashes, sure. Not yet consistent. I figured Patterson would play simply because
he's a natural guard, not a converted SF, and also hoped Roberson/Johnson could give them consistent shooting. I think
that's still a weakness for this team, even with Cooney's outstanding play so far.

The main problem for the freshman is you cannot take certain players off the floor. If they don't mind getting the MCW
treatment as a freshman, and they develop as he did, then SU has a great future.

Kev
 
KevMonstah said:
....
The main problem for the freshman is you cannot take certain players off the floor. If they don't mind getting the MCW
treatment as a freshman, and they develop as he did, then SU has a great future.

Kev
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MCW is a unique case -- could have played almost anywhere as a frosh, but was behind Dion and two returning starters.

Better examples are Damone Brown, D-Nik, Andy Rautins. Not ready for D-1 play as frosh, but developed into players.

I would say, though, that each of the 4 frosh (including Chino) is a different case. Easy to project (and no reason to worry) in 3 cases -- more difficult with BJ because he is so thin and a tweener, yet has good skills. Could make a D-Nik move from frosh year to junior. Glad he is Orange.
 
I suspect BJ wasn't redshirted because JB wasn't certain that Cooney could come through. Now that he has, people are wondering why BJ wasn't redshirted. They are clearly the most talented outside shooters on the team. Someday they may be in the starting line-up together, bombing away for us.
 
SWC75 said:
I suspect BJ wasn't redshirted because JB wasn't certain that Cooney could come through. Now that he has, people are wondering why BJ wasn't redshirted. They are clearly the most talented outside shooters on the team. Someday they may be in the starting line-up together, bombing away for us.
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Maybe, but BJ and his family weren't enthusiastic about BJ redshirting based on posts here by his father.
By the time the decision had to made, JB had seen enough of Cooney to know he was solid in the 2G spot.
I hope BJ will prove to be a talented outside shooter -- hasn't shown it in games so far. CJ is easily better so far, as is Ennis. BJ's time will come, but seems hard to believe that JB had any expectations for him this year beyond mop-up time.
 
In all fairness, when was the last time we've had a "sharpshooter" come in and do anything impressive his freshman year? Besides Gmac, Devo and I guess Flynn.


By the way, why in gods name did Terrence Roberts take 6 threes in the 05/06 season?
 
True enough that some frosh who were recruited as shooters did not show much in their first season (Rautins, D-Nik are good examples).

But there are frosh (in addition to ones you named) who have shown shooting ability right away -- Louie Orr, Rafael Addison, Greene. Southerland was inconsistent, but he hit a few. Triche. Even Mookie.

BJ needs to take some advantage of the court time he gets. Pass up a shot or two. Make a drive move. Or make a shot. Anything.
 
BJ will be awesome but will take some time.

By the time the Paterson becomes a senior, he will be like merging Scoop and Triche into a single player! Maybe better.

Don't give up on Silent G, he's going to have a great career also!
 
SoBristol said:
True enough that some frosh who were recruited as shooters did not show much in their first season (Rautins, D-Nik are good examples).

But there are frosh (in addition to ones you named) who have shown shooting ability right away -- Louie Orr, Rafael Addison, Greene. Southerland was inconsistent, but he hit a few. Triche. Even Mookie.

BJ needs to take some advantage of the court time he gets. Pass up a shot or two. Make a drive move. Or make a shot. Anything.
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Triche and Southerland were a combined 10/30 after their first 15 three point attempts in there first years. Better than BJ, but still not impressive.

BJ has hardly seen a fraction of the time past 3 point shooting specialists have in there freshman years.

I just don't think he's been given time to get in any sort of a groove, it's tough being an 18 year old playing in the dome. None of our other freshman besides Ennis are lighting up the perimeter either. Pretty sure Buss won some sort of 3 point shooting competition last year too.

As for whether or not he's physically ready, I have no idea, I've only seen 45 second to minute flashes of him. He looked fine in Canada.

There was a stretch of Triche's freshman year where he was like 0 for 20 straight 3s
 
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Dave85 said:
BJ will be awesome but will take some time.

By the time the Paterson becomes a senior, he will be like merging Scoop and Triche into a single player! Maybe better.

Don't give up on Silent G, he's going to have a great career also!
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G is my wild card, my favorite player.

He'll shock em all.
 
People forget that not every freshman can walk into the dome and play like gosh darn jeebus from the very start.

Tyler Ennis
 
tee1222 said:
Has everyone forgotten that BJ was the game high in points in an exhibition game? Exhibition or not, no fear. He will be fine and this will not be the last game he's the leading scorer.
http://suathletics.syr.edu/documents/2013/8/23/Bishops8.22.13.pdf?id=7731

Oh, and Go Aces!
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The kid has to hit the weight room. He's has like a 20" waistline. He is really skinny. But he realizes his potential can you imagine having TC and BJ at the 2 and the 3. Holy molly! Teams will not know which outside shooter to defend against! With the 2013, 2014, and 2015 recruits the Orange are going to be amazing the next few years!!!
 
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