Dwight Freeney

[Shark58]

go get that 2nd ring

 

[Symphony Steve]

Yep. Make a couple of big plays and enhance your Hall of Fame chances.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[OrangePA]

He has a great career.

 

[KaiserUEO]

hes getting a little over 50% of the snaps, but hasn't had a sack since dash was telling me hilaree has her decorator in the White House measuring the drapes while the 2nd debate was on.

it would be nice to see him drop tommyboy for sure.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Yep. Make a couple of big plays and enhance your Hall of Fame chances.

I think he is a lock now that Charles Haley is in.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I think he is a lock now that Charles Haley is in.

Charles Haley has 4 more rings and 200...200!!! more tackles.

we covered the shlit out of this before, Freeney is a 1 trick poney...a very good 1 trick poney, who will have to wait a long, long time to get in.

not saying he wont, hes got a lot going for him...but he is certainly no lock.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Charles Haley has 4 more rings and 200...200!!! more tackles.

Really, this is how we judge defensive players, by counting tackles and rings? Both players were among the most disruptive defensive players in their respective eras. I don't know how to account for the large discrepancy in tackles. Part of it might have to do with the eras in which they played. I do remember it being said that teams would deliberately run in Haley's direction because they questioned his tackling ability. That strategy did not usually work. Anyway, counting tackles is not a great measure of a defensive player's value.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Really, this is how we judge defensive players, by counting tackles and rings? Both players were among the most disruptive defensive players in their respective eras. I don't know how to account for the large discrepancy in tackles. Part of it might have to do with the eras in which they played. I do remember it being said that teams would deliberately run in Haley's direction because they questioned his tackling ability. That strategy did not usually work. Anyway, counting tackles is not a great measure of a defensive player's value.

yes, that is exactly how we judge them. that is a big part of the judgement, rings can be overlooked, but when you are the All Time Ring leader, it has a little weight.

one of the ideas of playing defense...or at least so I was told...

was to tackle the other guy with the ball.

another thing to do, was win.

Charles Haley was a winner, who was a complete player.

Freeney's tackle #s are EXTREMELY low when compared to his peers.

 

[RF2044]

yes, that is exactly how we judge them. that is a big part of the judgement, rings can be overlooked, but when you are the All Time Ring leader, it has a little weight.

one of the ideas of playing defense...or at least so I was told...

was to tackle the other guy with the ball.

another thing to do, was win.

Charles Haley was a winner, who was a complete player.

Freeney's tackle #s are EXTREMELY low when compared to his peers.

I wonder if that has to do more with modern specialization in the game [i.e., designated pass rusher], versus the old days when players weren't part of sub packages, played all three downs, etc.

Freeney is one of the top sack specialists in NFL history. He's also had longevity. I wonder if the goal posts move a little as we begin coming up with evaluative criteria to judge modern era players.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I wonder if that has to do more with modern specialization in the game [i.e., designated pass rusher], versus the old days when players weren't part of sub packages, played all three downs, etc.

Freeney is one of the top sack specialists in NFL history. He's also had longevity. I wonder if the goal posts move a little as we begin coming up with evaluative criteria to judge modern era players.

good point.

but go look at all his peers and their tackle numbers.

hell, just look at his buddy Mathis: 123 sacks...397 tackles.

Freeney...122.5 sacks...281 tackles.

hes a career 30 HR guy that hit .220

 

[RF2044]

good point.

but go look at all his peers and their tackle numbers.

hell, just look at his buddy Mathis: 123 sacks...397 tackles.

Freeney...122.5 sacks...281 tackles.

hes a career 30 HR guy that hit .220

I was thinking Omar Visquel, but that analogy works.

Like Visquel, I think it is important to keep playing / pad his stats a little to get to "acceptable" numbers [outside of sacks] that don't disqualify him. He was a dominant force, though, that affected games -- that is tough to quantify. Master of the strip sack.

 

[Finwad32]

good point.

but go look at all his peers and their tackle numbers.

hell, just look at his buddy Mathis: 123 sacks...397 tackles.

Freeney...122.5 sacks...281 tackles.

hes a career 30 HR guy that hit .220

I'd be interested to see where DB tackle #'s are trending over the past 30-years. I'd be willing to venture a guess that Defensive Back tackle #'s are trending up over one's career. Those guys are typically the tackle leaders of their ball clubs nowadays where in the past that would've been viewed as a horrendous defense if your DB's had to make the tackle.

The same could be said for DL Tackles, which I'd imagine could have decreased across the board.

Also, I think QB's are generally more athletic nowadays and taught much better on pocket presence. Sack #'s as a whole are probably pretty consistent even though passing attempts have greatly increased.

Ofcourse, I'm too lazy to do actual research on this so I'm going to hinge my argument on guesses that I consider fact.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Charles Haley was a winner

It's silly enough when people make this argument about quarterbacks. It's ludicrous with defensive players. Dick Butkus must have been a loser. Tony Tolbert was a winner!

 

[AZOrange]

I'd be interested to see where DB tackle #'s are trending over the past 30-years. I'd be willing to venture a guess that Defensive Back tackle #'s are trending up over one's career. Those guys are typically the tackle leaders of their ball clubs nowadays where in the past that would've been viewed as a horrendous defense if your DB's had to make the tackle.

The same could be said for DL Tackles, which I'd imagine could have decreased across the board.

Also, I think QB's are generally more athletic nowadays and taught much better on pocket presence. Sack #'s as a whole are probably pretty consistent even though passing attempts have greatly increased.

Ofcourse, I'm too lazy to do actual research on this so I'm going to hinge my argument on guesses that I consider fact.

I had to go back and look because I didn't believe it but guys like Peppers and Ware have nearly 700 tackles each! Freeney had a career high in his rookie year...

 

[donniesyracuse]

Again, I don't think you measure a guy like Freeney's value by counting tackles. He only made like 50 tackles for Syracuse in 2001. Would anyone deny that it was one of the most impressive defensive seasons in Syracuse history?

 

[cuse309]

This got me wondering...what SU football player has the most Superbowl rings all time? Was it the Moose?

 

[donniesyracuse]

This got me wondering...what SU football player has the most Superbowl rings all time?

I know Art Monk and Daryl Johnston have three. Anybody have more?

 

[cuse309]

I know Art Monk and Daryl Johnston have three. Anybody have more?

Art Monk had 2 by my count...87 and 91

 

[donniesyracuse]

Art Monk had 2 by my count...87 and 91

I was thinking he was on the 82 team; my bad

Edit: I guess he was in fact on the 82 team. I don't remember the circumstances, was he hurt during the season? Do you still earn a ring in such a case?

 

[KaiserUEO]

I was thinking he was on the 82 team; my bad

Edit: I guess he was in fact on the 82 team. I don't remember the circumstances, was he hurt during the season? Do you still earn a ring in such a case?

yes. he was on it. got hurt in last game of the year.

Ring for Art.

 

[cuse309]

I was thinking he was on the 82 team; my bad

Edit: I guess he was in fact on the 82 team. I don't remember the circumstances, was he hurt during the season? Do you still earn a ring in such a case?

SU athletics website lists him as only having superbowl rings from 87 and 91.

 

[donniesyracuse]

SU athletics website lists him as only having superbowl rings from 87 and 91.

#AlternativeFacts

 

[KaiserUEO]

I had to go back and look because I didn't believe it but guys like Peppers and Ware have nearly 700 tackles each! Freeney had a career high in his rookie year...

this will make the Freeney supporters cry...

Clyde Simmons: 121.5 sacks (basically the same) 966 tackles...NOT in the HOF

Freeney was very very good, he will likely get in.

but there are a LOT of guys who need to go before him.

 

[AZOrange]

Again, I don't think you measure a guy like Freeney's value by counting tackles. He only made like 50 tackles for Syracuse in 2001. Would anyone deny that it was one of the most impressive defensive seasons in Syracuse history?

No I agree and I'm not trying to disparage Dwight (who I love) but comparing him side by side to a contemporary like Ware it's easy to see who is first ballot