Emphasis on transition

[20Plus]

Even when we were 25 and 0 and there was little to complain about people were wondering why we were not running more. At that time it was pretty evident that Tyler just didn't push the ball.

This year is it mostly on Frank?

Or do we believe that the coaches need to enforce the culture of pushing the ball?

We have great wings and forwards that would love to run.

Why are we not doing it ?


Is it more on Frank or the coaches ?

 

[dasher]

Even when we were 25 and 0 and there was little to complain about people were wondering why we were not running more. At that time it was pretty evident that Tyler just didn't push the ball.

This year is it mostly on Frank?

Or do we believe that the coaches need to enforce the culture of pushing the ball?

We have great wings and forwards that would love to run.

Why are we not doing it ?


Is it more on Frank or the coaches ?

I think it is tough to be a running team when you only have 6 or 7 guys. But more than that, I think the coach believes that this teams chance to be successful rests on it's defense and doesn't want to get in a running game with teams where our defense isn't set up against them.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Coaches.

 

[Ajflood12]

Even when we were 25 and 0 and there was little to complain about people were wondering why we were not running more. At that time it was pretty evident that Tyler just didn't push the ball.

This year is it mostly on Frank?

Or do we believe that the coaches need to enforce the culture of pushing the ball?

We have great wings and forwards that would love to run.

Why are we not doing it ?


Is it more on Frank or the coaches ?

I don't think Frank has ever passed the ball on a fast break. I cannot remember one time. He is either scoring or losing the ball/fouling.

 

[upperdeck]

you need a few things to run the ball well..

1) a good outlet passer. we have none
2) good finishers. we have none
3) usually it helps to have speed, we are extremely slow.
4) helps if the lead guards are quick.. outs are not.

JB would run all day if he had the horses..

 

[HtownOrange]

JB loves transition. As noted above, we lack the personnel, or possibly personality, to run transition.

A true point guard that looks for transition is the start. Our D gets the ball via steal or D rebound. Watch the big guys, they are looking for an outlet.

This where we drop the ball, the guards are not looking to force the ball down court as in Orange past. Guards trained in transition do this instinctively at this level. If the guards would move down court, the transition game would kick in.

It is possible that JB may be slowing the transition game somewhat to avoid the running game against faster teams. Probably due to bench depth. However, with teams like BC and UVA, it should be installed to keep them off their game.

I am not sure our 6 man "rotation" could handle the transition game as run in Orange past (think Sherman Douglas era), I would not want to try to outrun Duke, UK, and several others as they simply would rotate their bench in and out and wear us down late in the second half.

NOTE: this defense is perfectly primed for the transition game, and if Sidibe would heal and MM is good, we could run it as a part of the game. We see what happens when we speed up a UVA, they cannot stay disciplined. Speed kills, but you have to have the horses (bench) to run.

 

[BlackSquirrels]

To my eye, SU has looked to run noticeably less since the 2013 Final Four game ended with a backcourt of Trevor Cooney and James Southerland. I think JB is trying to avoid a similar situation at all costs.

Also, in 2013, MCW and Triche were competent ball handlers so if one of them got in foul trouble, the other could take over. Since then, SU has had to lean on its main PG to play huge minutes because backups have been barely competent or non-existent. It makes sense to play slower to minimize the possibility and effect of foul trouble.

Guys like Tyler Ennis and Frank Howard were and are perfectly capable of getting fast break buckets.

 

[rrlbees]

JB loves transition. As noted above, we lack the personnel, or possibly personality, to run transition.

A true point guard that looks for transition is the start. Our D gets the ball via steal or D rebound. Watch the big guys, they are looking for an outlet.

This where we drop the ball, the guards are not looking to force the ball down court as in Orange past. Guards trained in transition do this instinctively at this level. If the guards would move down court, the transition game would kick in.

It is possible that JB may be slowing the transition game somewhat to avoid the running game against faster teams. Probably due to bench depth. However, with teams like BC and UVA, it should be installed to keep them off their game.

I am not sure our 6 man "rotation" could handle the transition game as run in Orange past (think Sherman Douglas era), I would not want to try to outrun Duke, UK, and several others as they simply would rotate their bench in and out and wear us down late in the second half.

NOTE: this defense is perfectly primed for the transition game, and if Sidibe would heal and MM is good, we could run it as a part of the game. We see what happens when we speed up a UVA, they cannot stay disciplined. Speed kills, but you have to have the horses (bench) to run.

Our big guys don’t look for an outlet. We do run off steals. Off rebounds our guards come back towards the rebounder to get the ball. The bigs look for the guard nearest them. They do not take the ball high, pivot, and look down court for the fast break possibility.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Coaches.

I can't believe this thread went beyond this. That's it. Just one reason we don't run. JB says not to. We had Tyler Roberson flying down the court four years in a row only to never receive a lead pass despite the fact he was faster than everyone else on the floor, often wide open, and with more than enough ability to finish with vigor. I saw all I needed to see to understand the choice was made from the sideline. Not the guard with the ball.

 

[rrlbees]

Even when we were 25 and 0 and there was little to complain about people were wondering why we were not running more. At that time it was pretty evident that Tyler just didn't push the ball.

This year is it mostly on Frank?

Or do we believe that the coaches need to enforce the culture of pushing the ball?

We have great wings and forwards that would love to run.

Why are we not doing it ?


Is it more on Frank or the coaches ?

Do we have great wings and forwards that would love to run? When jb was asked about running a couple weeks ago he said Frank wasn’t really a running pg and our forwards didn’t run well.

 

[HtownOrange]

Our big guys don’t look for an outlet. We do run off steals. Off rebounds our guards come back towards the rebounder to get the ball. The bigs look for the guard nearest them. They do not take the ball high, pivot, and look down court for the fast break possibility.

Chicken or egg, which came first?

I think the big guys look for the guard where they expect them, in the present case, on the defensive end of the court. If the guards were down court, the big guys would look down court.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Chicken or egg, which came first?

I think the big guys look for the guard where they expect them, in the present case, on the defensive end of the court. If the guards were down court, the big guys would look down court.

I don't believe this is true for our current lineup. First off, Chewy isn't comfortable passing anything other than a hand off to one of the guards. Rarely passes more than 5 feet distance.

I've seen Washington push the ball, he seems more natural with that. Maybe he just hasn't gotten the word yet.

 

[RF2044]

I think it isn't a simple answer, and is actually a combination of factors.

• Playing all zone makes players "stay home" to cover their assignments before kiting out on the break
• Chukwu isn't an especially instinctive outlet passer, so he looks to secure the ball and then hand it off to someone instead of looking to outlet
• We lack ball handlers
• Frank is a guy who isn't a quick twitch / push the ball type of lead guard -- he is more comfortable getting the ball, and then using his body to keep the defender at bay instead of playing at a break neck pace
• Depth
• Battle isn't smooth in transition and prefers to play ISO
• Coaching probably instructs these guys to take care of the ball, since they were so turnover prone early in the season
• We play at a deliberate pace, because that's what the players seem most comfortable doing

Need to rebound / force turnovers to run, but that's only the first part of it.

 

[br801]

I can't believe this thread went beyond this. That's it. Just one reason we don't run. JB says not to. We had Tyler Roberson flying down the court four years in a row only to never receive a lead pass despite the fact he was faster than everyone else on the floor, often wide open, and with more than enough ability to finish with vigor. I saw all I needed to see to understand the choice was made from the sideline. Not the guard with the ball.

In a few more years you'll be waxing poetic about Roberson's abilities as if he were the second coming of Julius Erving.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

In a few more years you'll be waxing poetic about Roberson's abilities as if he were the second coming of Julius Erving.

I did that when he was here as well.

Have I mentioned his jumpers? Smoother than Ray Allen and NBA three line was simply a layup for him...

 

[br801]

I did that when he was here as well.

Have I mentioned his jumpers? Smoother than Ray Allen and NBA three line was simply a layup for him...

He did have some great moments and was a terrific offensive rebounder. I was generally bullish on him while he was here and thought he could develop into a nice offensive threat. That never happened, but I don't think it was from lack of trying on his part or that of the coaching staff.

 

[SoBeCuse]

you need a few things to run the ball well..

1) a good outlet passer. we have none
2) good finishers. we have none
3) usually it helps to have speed, we are extremely slow.
4) helps if the lead guards are quick.. outs are not.

JB would run all day if he had the horses..

Boom. I think it is this. Talent limitations in running/pushing it as well as lack of depth.

 

[kuethstheman]

Boom. I think it is this. Talent limitations in running/pushing it as well as lack of depth.

There's that but I honestly think if FH woke up one morning and decided to start pushing it to the extreme, JB would let him. I don't agree that JB just rolls the ball out but I do believe he let's his horses play the way they want to.

 

[SoBeCuse]

There's that but I honestly think if FH woke up one morning and decided to start pushing it to the extreme, JB would let him. I don't agree that JB just rolls the ball out but I do believe he let's his horses play the way they want to.

Right. The depth issue and style of play with this particular team is a big factor like RF mentioned. Obviously they are extremely thin. But, even if Frank was capable of actually running/handling the ball adequately enough there are lots of risks of turnovers from everybody I think. A track meet sort of game could turn our attack into a comedy of errors while other teams would strategically use that pace to put the nail in the coffin early.

Personally I think pushing it and speed on the break will only happen if/when Carey has the ball. Recently there was a Zags (?) article about Carey. Carey said that he expects the ball in his hands a lot and that the staff views him as a “one and done type...” Who knows. I like the comparison of a poor man’s Ben Gordon someone here came up with recently. That being said, I think Carey is far from a one and done but that can change and fantasy vs reality comes into play.

Maybe even Bazely can push it with his skills. Looks like a dynamite point-forward type the more I see him. He might have the best handle out of all the current SU players.

 

[upperdeck]

gonna be crazy roster issues in 2 yrs if some of this is true.. It will be Howard Washington and Moyer left if everyone leave early like they all seem to be thinking they can.

 

[rrlbees]

There's that but I honestly think if FH woke up one morning and decided to start pushing it to the extreme, JB would let him. I don't agree that JB just rolls the ball out but I do believe he let's his horses play the way they want to.

Jb doesn’t just let players do what they want. Never.

 

[Cusefan0307]

gonna be crazy roster issues in 2 yrs if some of this is true.. It will be Howard Washington and Moyer left if everyone leave early like they all seem to be thinking they can.

Sidibe
Boeheim
Hughes
Moyer
Washington
Goodine
Marek ?

And we still can recruit! It will get figured out.

 

[kuethstheman]

Jb doesn’t just let players do what they want. Never.

I believe he does, as long as it works.

 

[djcon57]

you need a few things to run the ball well..

1) a good outlet passer. we have none
2) good finishers. we have none
3) usually it helps to have speed, we are extremely slow.
4) helps if the lead guards are quick.. outs are not.

JB would run all day if he had the horses..

Finishers is the key

 

[newmexicuse]

Even when we were 25 and 0 and there was little to complain about people were wondering why we were not running more. At that time it was pretty evident that Tyler just didn't push the ball.

This year is it mostly on Frank?

Or do we believe that the coaches need to enforce the culture of pushing the ball?

We have great wings and forwards that would love to run.

Why are we not doing it ?


Is it more on Frank or the coaches ?

When we were 25 & 0 only Jimmy, the raptors, and trex's were roaming the earth.