End of Game Inbounding

[jordoo]

Its probably the best option to go lob something long if you cannot get a clean pass but with less than 5 second you do not have to getting the ball past half court nor about the closley guarded 5sec call. You simply have to avoid being tied up if you do not have the arrow. That being the case you look for the higher %age clean pass close to you IMO but you have someone at around mid court incase you have nothing and thats the backup plan to hit them on a long pass.

Still with no pass and no time coming off the clock, when the defensive team is down it should be an intentional foul if they hug the guy making a break for the ball. Grabbing a jersey on a guy coming around a screen or bumping/checking a guy is at least trying to play some sort of defense. Hugging is purpossley fouling and is in no way a bball play.

 

[kuethstheman]

That is just what I was going to suggest. And if I recall correctly, this happened back in Jan 2003 when we upset Pitt at the dome. I forgot who it was but they inbounded the ball and heaved it straight up so the clock was ticking. This was the game that we stormed the court early and had to inbounds it again. Or at least that is what I remember.

It was Hakim and if he was trying to run out the clock, he did it a tad early. JB said he must have lost his mind.

 

[stuckinbig11]

I think the concern, as you sort of alluded to, is if the long pass goes out of bounds without someone touching it, the opposition gets the ball with no time expired.

correct answer, and they get it out under their basket

 

[ClamOtto]

A related question is why CJ was inbounding. As our best FT shooter wouldn't you want him taking the pass and getting fouled? I understand his ball-handling isn't as strong as the guards and he could turn it over, but he could have basically held it until he got fouled or time ran out.

 

[jordoo]

A related question is why CJ was inbounding. As our best FT shooter wouldn't you want him taking the pass and getting fouled? I understand his ball-handling isn't as strong as the guards and he could turn it over, but he could have basically held it until he got fouled or time ran out.

JB almost always has an uperclass forward for inbounding. My guess is length so they can see and someone he trusts to make the right decision. Remmeber that year Devo and Andy went down . . . . . how many debacles did we have with Donte and Paul inbounding sheesh we lost that game to Pitt because those two couldn't get it in properly the last 3min.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

A related question is why CJ was inbounding. As our best FT shooter wouldn't you want him taking the pass and getting fouled? I understand his ball-handling isn't as strong as the guards and he could turn it over, but he could have basically held it until he got fouled or time ran out.

All true, but likely the thinking is that he doesn't trust RC/DC2/BMK/JG to inbound the ball at that point, and it's good to have a guy with some size to get it past the opponents guy (likely someone with length) guarding the inbounder.

 

[iommi]

Donte and Paul shortened my life by several years when they were in charge of inbounding the ball.

 

[ClamOtto]

JB almost always has an uperclass forward for inbounding. My guess is length so they can see and someone he trusts to make the right decision. Remmeber that year Devo and Andy went down . . . . . how many debacles did we have with Donte and Paul inbounding sheesh we lost that game to Pitt because those two couldn't get it in properly the last 3min.

Unfortunately I have flashbacks to the Pitt game every time we have to inbound with a lead and time running out.

 

[CorduroyG]

pretty sure hakim did that heave in the notre dame game, not the pitt game. i think thats a GREAT play, although hakim did it with a little too much time on the clock. if theres 5 seconds or less i dont understand why more teams dont do that. why wait to get fouled? just launch the ball in the air, or throw it down to the other end of the court, the clock is gonna run out. magic johnson did this in the 1991 western conference finals against portland. lakers were up 1 with a few seconds left, portland misses a jumper, magic gets the rebound and instead of waiting to get fouled he just throws the ball to the other end of the court and time expired. im sure its happened a few other times but magic and hak are the only 2 times i can remember.

heres the magic play, the sequence with the missed shot and rebound and fling starts at about 4:00.

 

[iommi]

pretty sure hakim did that heave in the notre dame game, not the pitt game. i think thats a GREAT play, although hakim did it with a little too much time on the clock. if theres 5 seconds or less i dont understand why more teams dont do that. why wait to get fouled? just launch the ball in the air, or throw it down to the other end of the court, the clock is gonna run out. magic johnson did this in the 1991 western conference finals against portland. lakers were up 1 with a few seconds left, portland misses a jumper, magic gets the rebound and instead of waiting to get fouled he just throws the ball to the other end of the court and time expired. im sure its happened a few other times but magic and hak are the only 2 times i can remember.

heres the magic play, the sequence with the missed shot and rebound and fling starts at about 4:00.

No, it was the Pitt game.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Okay so as I was watching the end of the game yesterday, something occurred to me and I thought I'd run it by the board here, since most of you are infinitely more knowledgeable of hoops than I (with the notable exception of Marsh, who has made it apparent that he knows jack about it).

So, here's the scenario. We're inbounding from under their basket with like 2.4 seconds remaining. Up by 2. Fair is doing the inbounding. Can't find anyone open, so calls a timeout. Second time, he's able to squeeze in a pass, and as expected, they foul us immediately.

However, the first time, right before he called the timeout, the announcers made mention of Triche being wide open sprinting down the court toward our basket - this made me think of the question in this thread.

Here's my question - why not send more of our team, if not all of them, into the far court at this time? If you throw a 3/4 court pass, it seems almost impossible for the other team to cleanly intercept and have a makeable basket with only 2 seconds. I realize there is a chance that someone could catch it cleanly, take 2 dribbles to half court, and heave a last minute hail mary.

The way I see it, chances are that a near full-length court pass to the other foul line would at the very least be tipped, causing the clock to start before anyone even has possession. Maybe it goes out of bounds under the other hoop or to the sideline, but then the odds are (if the ball even went out on us), that they get the ball with less than a second left with the whole length of the court to go.

Yeah I know there's some risk in this, and I'm sure there's a reason they don't do it. The same reason I'm sitting here being a Monday morning quarterback instead of bragging about my 900 wins. But I get so tense inbounding the ball there, where all it would take is a steal and a quick layup or jumper from near their own hoop, that it made me think of alternatives.

Just something to spark some discussion I guess. What do you all think? It seems to be weighing a shorter pass with faith in our free throw shooting potentially putting us up by an unreachable 4 points vs. a longer pass that could potentially give them a hail mary chance.

The clock doesn't start till the ball is touched. Throwing it where it's a free ball could create a foul situation for the winning team (like the collisions that occur with hail mary passes) going after the ball with little time off the clock. It would be less of a chance if the winning team isn't in the bonus FT situation yet. If a player is totally alone, then it just depends on the accuracy of the passer whether its a good play or not. Most coaches practice end of game situations and usually opt for a play freeing up the players with the surest hands and are better free throw shooters. It is a scary situation each option with its own risks, but one they should have practiced.

 

[Bayside44]

No, it was the Pitt game.

It was Notre Dame. Pitt game was the looked good quote from McNeil on the half court heave.

 

[Marsh01]

I thought it was ND as well. Pitt was the 3 court rush attempt game.

 

[tbonezone]

correct me if i'm wrong but i thought the foul for holding triche was whistled while the ball was still in cj's hands.

 

[kuethstheman]

correct me if i'm wrong but i thought the foul for holding triche was whistled while the ball was still in cj's hands.

Not sure but definitely no time came off the clock.

 

[SmilinBob]

correct me if i'm wrong but i thought the foul for holding triche was whistled while the ball was still in cj's hands.

You're correct. I believe he was just about to break long.

 

[tbonezone]

IMO mind you. under 10 seconds to go trailing team that should be whistled intentional.

 

[armory]

Still with no pass and no time coming off the clock, when the defensive team is down it should be an intentional foul if they hug the guy making a break for the ball. Grabbing a jersey on a guy coming around a screen or bumping/checking a guy is at least trying to play some sort of defense. Hugging is purpossley fouling and is in no way a bball play.

I was complaining about the same thing so I looked it up ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagrant_foul ... apparently it can only be called a "Flagrant-1" (no such thing as an "intentional foul" anymore I believe).

• Flagrant-1: A flagrant personal foul (or intentional foul) involves excessive or severe contact during a live ball.
• Flagrant-2: A flagrant technical foul involves unsportsmanlike conduct that is extreme in nature, or excessive or severe contact during a dead ball.

I believe that when the ref hands the ball to the player and blows the whistle, it becomes a "live ball". He flat out bear-hugged Triche, so it should have been called Flagrant-1 IMO... which would have been 1-and-1 & the ball.

Friend of mine had an interesting suggestion; a short clock runoff for fouling before the inbounds pass, he said 5 seconds but even 2-3 seconds would be a solid deterrent/penalty. Obviously that seems like a biased suggestion in hindsight, considering a 3 second runoff would have ended the game, but it still makes sense in theory.

 

[SmilinBob]

IMO mind you. under 10 seconds to go trailing team that should be whistled intentional.

I agree or a run off of time like in the NFL.

 

[mark79]

Okay so as I was watching the end of the game yesterday, something occurred to me and I thought I'd run it by the board here, since most of you are infinitely more knowledgeable of hoops than I (with the notable exception of Marsh, who has made it apparent that he knows jack about it).

So, here's the scenario. We're inbounding from under their basket with like 2.4 seconds remaining. Up by 2. Fair is doing the inbounding. Can't find anyone open, so calls a timeout. Second time, he's able to squeeze in a pass, and as expected, they foul us immediately.

However, the first time, right before he called the timeout, the announcers made mention of Triche being wide open sprinting down the court toward our basket - this made me think of the question in this thread.

Here's my question - why not send more of our team, if not all of them, into the far court at this time? If you throw a 3/4 court pass, it seems almost impossible for the other team to cleanly intercept and have a makeable basket with only 2 seconds. I realize there is a chance that someone could catch it cleanly, take 2 dribbles to half court, and heave a last minute hail mary.

The way I see it, chances are that a near full-length court pass to the other foul line would at the very least be tipped, causing the clock to start before anyone even has possession. Maybe it goes out of bounds under the other hoop or to the sideline, but then the odds are (if the ball even went out on us), that they get the ball with less than a second left with the whole length of the court to go.

Yeah I know there's some risk in this, and I'm sure there's a reason they don't do it. The same reason I'm sitting here being a Monday morning quarterback instead of bragging about my 900 wins. But I get so tense inbounding the ball there, where all it would take is a steal and a quick layup or jumper from near their own hoop, that it made me think of alternatives.

Just something to spark some discussion I guess. What do you all think? It seems to be weighing a shorter pass with faith in our free throw shooting potentially putting us up by an unreachable 4 points vs. a longer pass that could potentially give them a hail mary chance.

I thought of the same thing. We don't even have to catch it. We just have to ensure it doesn't go out of bounds untouched. Put two or three guys by the opposite foul line just to ensure it gets touched. Two seconds from the opposite foul line to collect and shoot is virtually impossible. You would only get a couple of dribbles and then a total heave.

 

[upperdeck]

we also had fouls left to give and didnt use them and then allowed a wild shot.

 

[CorduroyG]

if the other team has no timeouts i like it, if they do then i dont like it. the chances of cincinnati intercepting a long pass cleanly then making a half court or longer shot in 2 seconds is not gonna happen. but with a timeout they could intercept the pass, call timeout then set up an inbounds play and they can go all christian laettner on us

 

[iommi]

we also had fouls left to give and didnt use them and then allowed a wild shot.

They were in the 1 and 1 before trying the 3-pointer that rimmed out, if you're referring to that scenario.

 

[JOC44]

It was Notre Dame. Pitt game was the looked good quote from McNeil on the half court heave.

Correct.

I was boarding a train in D.C. at the end of the Notre Dame game. I called my wife to get play-by-play and she says somebody got fouled. Praying it was McNamara I said "is it a white guy?" She said no, which raised all sorts of bad possibilities. Then when we missed the FT she said, "he missed, uh uh uh, oh God." That was her play-by-play on Warrick throwing the ball in the air.

 

[armory]

They were in the 1 and 1 before trying the 3-pointer that rimmed out, if you're referring to that scenario.

Yep, believe we had 6 at the time.

re: 'throwing the ball into the air' ... does anyone know the official rule for when the ball is ruled dead if it were to land out of bounds? Can't be when the ball crosses the plane because all sorts of saved possessions would be ruled out of bounds then ... if its when the ball lands, then damn, get Rak in there and have him heave it straight up as far as he can!

Afraid this might fall into the obscure "technical foul" category which still exists for a host of strange violations.