i need some qb advice from our experts. Why is Eric throwing off his back foot so much and under throwing everything. Everyone has bad games but it seams to me to be poor mechanics. If he puts some umph on the ball phillips scores on that and Custis doesn't have to slow down and we don't get picked. Am I wrong here. Please help me understand.
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Eric Dungey
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SUMBA
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Quarterbacks who run and take the punishment that ED does often alter their mechanics due to minor injuries. I am not sure if this is the case with Dungey but it will be interesting to see if it changes after his body has a chance to heal during the bye week.
GoSU96
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It’s because he’s an athlete playing QB. That’s why talk of him going to the nfl is nuts. He needs a lot of work
SUMBA
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That is a correct assessment. However, if you noticed yesterday he was grabbing his leg as if it was in pain. Sometimes these types of nagging injuries force changes in throwing mechanics. I don't know if this is the case with Dungey but it does often happen with quarterbacks who run often.
690West
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Man, this bye week is perfect timing.
care taker
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First of all ED has my respect tough as they come , improviser , competitor , good touch passer . His problem is he is to muscled up you can't be upper body muscled up . Look at the NFL Qb's Brady , Rodgers , breese Stanford , Ryan etc no muscles . I can off the top of my head remember 2 Tebow and Brady Quinn ..... To have a quick release and a fluid throwing motion you must be loose and be fast twitch , none of that happens when you are muscled up . The problem is for most skill guys the only way to gain weight is to put on muscle I had that problem with TD he got to muscled up in the winter we had to modify his workouts , we are trying to put on the extra pounds in his legs and ass to avoid getting him upper body stiff . For as long as I could remember pitchers never lifted weights for this reason .
He would benifit from using his wrist more, but that's a mechanical overhaul that takes a crazy amount of reps to correct .
He would benifit from using his wrist more, but that's a mechanical overhaul that takes a crazy amount of reps to correct .
djorange1989
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No way he is going to the NFL as a QB. He is banged up, he got injured against Clemson so that didn’t help yesterday. Kid is a hell of a QB. College QB.
cuse309
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That in a nutshell was the difference between our QB's yesterday. Rosier had plenty of time in the pocket. He could stand and deliver to his wr's. Dungey had no time.
Add to that Miami pretty much kept it at a 4 man rush while SU had 5 and that opened up some nice lanes for the Miami receivers.
I've always viewed Dungey as a kid who's a great college QB with a very low likelihood of making it long-term in the NFL. He could be drafted in like the sixth round by a team that wants to spend a few years working on his mechanics, but that's about it. Otherwise he'd have to play another position.
I'm not a coach, so I may not be a total expert here, but in my opinion a few things stand out about Dungey's throwing motion. I don't like his lower body mechanics. It seems to me he sometimes throws without rotating his hips enough (I noticed this a lot yesterday), and instead uses his upper body to generate the power. Other times, not so much yesterday, he'll start with his hips too open, thus not being able to generate enough power from them.
I also don't think he gets enough arm extension. Sometimes, to over simplify, it looks like a shot put type throw, where he's launching it solely with his shoulder rotation.
If you watch NFL QBs, you'll see that they're generating their power from their legs, and extending their arm fully. The longer the radius of the arc the arm makes, the more power (this is why in golf, you generate more swing speed with longer clubs). The more torque you get from your hips, and the more drive from your legs, the more power.
Also, and this is critical, it is easier to do things accurately in sports with big muscles rather than little ones - especially under pressure (whether it be late-game pressure or 300-lb lineman in your face pressure). This, in my opinion, is why Rosier was so good under duress last night - he has better mechanics.
I actually told my Dad during the game, "Dungey has all of the things that can make for a great college QB - heart, speed, toughness, clutch play... but not much of what makes an NFL QB, based on his mechanics."
I'm not a coach, so I may not be a total expert here, but in my opinion a few things stand out about Dungey's throwing motion. I don't like his lower body mechanics. It seems to me he sometimes throws without rotating his hips enough (I noticed this a lot yesterday), and instead uses his upper body to generate the power. Other times, not so much yesterday, he'll start with his hips too open, thus not being able to generate enough power from them.
I also don't think he gets enough arm extension. Sometimes, to over simplify, it looks like a shot put type throw, where he's launching it solely with his shoulder rotation.
If you watch NFL QBs, you'll see that they're generating their power from their legs, and extending their arm fully. The longer the radius of the arc the arm makes, the more power (this is why in golf, you generate more swing speed with longer clubs). The more torque you get from your hips, and the more drive from your legs, the more power.
Also, and this is critical, it is easier to do things accurately in sports with big muscles rather than little ones - especially under pressure (whether it be late-game pressure or 300-lb lineman in your face pressure). This, in my opinion, is why Rosier was so good under duress last night - he has better mechanics.
I actually told my Dad during the game, "Dungey has all of the things that can make for a great college QB - heart, speed, toughness, clutch play... but not much of what makes an NFL QB, based on his mechanics."
B
BillSU
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Shu49, SUMBA & GoSU96: Correct Mechanics
Quarterback Throwing Motion
Checkpoint 1 | Triangle
With the elbows level at the base and a loaded wrist in the “cocked” position off the back shoulder, the triangle shape provides for a powerful position to launch the football. This pre-throw carriage position reduces the tendency to wind up on the throw, aligns the throwing arm in a position that generates arm power, and reduces wasted motion resulting in a faster release.
Checkpoint 2 | Short Circle
Trigger the arm circle by bringing the ball from the carriage to a loaded position. Ideally, the quarterback should push the ball up and back away from the chest – never bringing the ball down below the chest and looping around. This will shorten arm action and quicken release time.
Checkpoint 3 | L Position
The move to the “L” position is done by bringing the ball further up and back, pointing the nose of the ball away from the target. When the arm is in the “L” position it helps to maximize arm power and acceleration. Keeping the ball tight to your head will result in a high elbow drive, maximizing throw power and minimizing strain in Checkpoints 4 and 5.
Checkpoint 4 | Elevate to “Zero”
The lead position the elbow has to be in to support the wrist. You may have heard coaches say “get the elbow up” – because the elbow only needs to go high enough to get over and ahead of the shoulder on the throw. The smoothness and efficiency of this move is the key to consistent power and accuracy on a throw. The “Zero” position places the elbow 6 inches ahead of the shoulder, 45 degrees up and out. “Zero” position is the orthopedic term given to this position because the rotator cuff muscles are neutral with no strain on them – that is, it’s the optimal position prior to the release because it minimizes strain on the joints and muscles involved in football throwing mechanics.
Checkpoint 5 | Arm Extension
The throwing arm now releases its energy, extended outward and upward toward the intended target. Complete extension, and firing the wrist at the exact moment, maximizes power, accuracy and spiral of the ball. Throwing over the top, as seen below, is harped upon by coaches at all age levels because the chain of power that occurs as the tricep fires energy up through arm and out through the wrist/fingers into the ball is maximized when the arm is fully extended upward and outward.
If you go to cuse.com you will see that Eric has all the best elements of setting to throw - proper triangle, etc. He wouldn’t have the following if he didn’t.
(“As a freshman Dungey was 105-for-176 passing and set the team record for most passing yards by a true freshman with 1,298 ... Tossed 11 touchdowns and recorded five two-touchdown pass games ... Third on the Orange freshman season record list with 1,649 yards of total offense (1,298 passing, 351 rushing) and averaged 206.1 yards of total offense per game ... Recorded 16 total touchdowns (11 passing, 5 rushing), two short of Donovan McNabb’s SU freshman record for touchdown.”)
You don’t achieve the numbers above or break records with Atta last year without proper mechanics.
Dungey’s problem is HC Dino Babers and his staff’s problem. Until we get a good offensive line at SU, one that can protect Dungey for a few seconds in a pocket and open some holes for our RB’s, Jawhar Jordan (had six TDS Friday, 25 on the season) so he can break some ankles in the secondary we will have to settle for short runs by our RB’s which will be a shame and a mobile QB which we should be thankful that ED is and is able to throw on the run. He did have problems - an off day with the four interceptions yesterday – the natural, very wet turf sucked but most of his troubles were caused by him being chased by a very good D-Line, linebackers and most of all Macintosh being in his face all day which caused rushed, off target throws, Miami played a man press defense leaving Dungey few targets to throw to and some were Eric’s fault. Until we get that good O-line we are stuck with who we have. Sampson will be a great protector - if you watch some of his film.
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Thank u and that makes sense. But on the throws I previously mentioned, he had some time but didn't follow thru on the throws. I feel it's more his footwork that is not right. Do they stress follow through at practice as u would know more than anyone.
Toga
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I'll say it again. This kid can be a pass receiving TE in the NFL.
kcsu
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2 weeks ago Big Ben threw 5.
Out of the 4 picks only 1 was on Eric.
Making the NFL is not a stretch for him. At minimum i can see the CFL. Its hard to teach his athleticism, intelligence, leadership,and toughness.
cuse10
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He underthrows and doesn't go through his progressions, but there's nothing wrong with his mechanics. He tossed a ball to Sean Riley against Central Michigan with the flick of a wrist. You can't drop that dime with poor mechanics. He needs time in the pocket. Shame that he won't have Erv and Ish next year with what should be an improved O Line.
CIL
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Give Miami's front a ton of credit here guys...they were in his face all day, hence the back foot.
It has been a habit of his in the past, but he has been much better this season.
Listen, he has his flaws, but I love that damn kid. He is a one, maybe two read type QB. What he did yesterday was all will - so proud of him.
It has been a habit of his in the past, but he has been much better this season.
Listen, he has his flaws, but I love that damn kid. He is a one, maybe two read type QB. What he did yesterday was all will - so proud of him.
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Unless you are mechanicaly trained at a young age it's hard to re train someone it takes 3000 reps to create muscle memory, most people that are great are just born with the proper mechanics Qb's are coached above the shoulders more than anything else
UnknownOrange
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He has never played tight end before in his life.
He weighs around 220 and that's the biggest he's ever been.
He would need to put on about 30-40 pounds to even reach the normal weight of an NFL tight end.
Why would any NFL team take a flyer on a guy who's never played a position that requires the skill of a WR but also the blocking of a guard/tackle?
He is never going to be an NFL tight end. Sorry.