ESPN reporting...

[Alsacs]

Oh, is THAT all? Vacated wins, PLUS probation AND losing scholarships? It's important to keep perspective here on how other schools have been punished of late.

Miami--after their hooker-and-blow gate, with far more sinister improper benefits than what will come out with us--got away with a SELF IMPOSED one-year post season ban.

ESPN is reporting that Oklahoma State has agreed to a 2 year, one scholarship reduction for their football team... and that is stemming from a huge scandal that SI published last year.

There is no way that we're going to accept the punishment you list above. One, because it would be unbelievably harsh. And two, because precedental cases are on our side.

I think that the NCAA is doing what they normally do--they throw a lot of s--t at the wall to see what sticks. My guess is that most of it will be penny ante stuff [especially with the alleged improper benefits, which I have a difficult time believing will be that severe, after what happened in '92] that WON'T stick, and that at the end of the day we'll be done to a couple of infractions that certainly will not necessitate to scorched earth you are predicting.

First who the e cares if JB loses some wins. I honestly don't think any fan should care about that. Second, probation is given no matter happens. Third, lost scholarships happen all the time as punishment and JB typically has 1 or 2 walkons on scholarship if we lose 1 or 2 scholarships while it will suck its not the end of the world.

All Syracuse should be fighting tooth and nail is a postseason ban. That is devastating. The rest of the stuff would suck but if we lost 1 scholarship for a decade it wouldn't really kill us just stop the walkon on scholarship we have been doing.

 

[joct]

Exactly. Old timers like myself that were around in 1993 survived that and we'll survive this. I remember it totally sucked at the time and it does now too, but we'll get past it.

Agreed. Thinking of back to then, if there is a positive in this, is that it has been relatively quiet until now. That one dragged out from Jan 91 (P-S articles) thru the announcement of the 1 year ban for the 93 season. With all sorts of drama in between. It essentially put a cloud over recruiting for almost 2 years. We did sign JW during that period, and since they weren't all leaving early that was enough combined with returning talent to sustain a good level. Assuming new sanctions are announced soon, we never really went through that mystery-cloud period, so the impact will be less...at least hopefully.

 

[Alsacs]

People need to understand the NCAA won't force JB out. In fact if anything I think it would make him stay on longer so the transition to Mike Hopkins was a lot more smoother for Hopkins. The NCAA is coming after us because of the Fab Melo stuff most likely JB may be guilty of being lax but he isn't a cheater.

 

[Alsacs]

BTW RF, Miami placed themselves on a 2 year bowl ban NOT 1 year. and in fact that self-imposed ban prevented the Canes from playing in 2012 ACC title game. Miami also did lose some scholarships. Miami by self imposing those 2 bowl bans lessened the blow when they went in front of the NCAA.

All Syracuse needs to fight is a postseason ban. They can take 1 or 2 scholarship hit for a few years and we should be able to get 7-8 players from 10 scholarship players.

 

[jordoo]

Am I concerned? Yes, but nothing is certain and I see no reason to waste much energy worrying about something I can do nothing about that has also BTW not yet happened.

 

[cusetown1]

People need to understand the NCAA won't force JB out. In fact if anything I think it would make him stay on longer so the transition to Mike Hopkins was a lot more smoother for Hopkins. The NCAA is coming after us because of the Fab Melo stuff most likely JB may be guilty of being lax but he isn't a cheater.

They are coming after cuse because Fab was their way of starting the investigation after the Fine fiasco, it has been a witch hunt ever since. I'm not saying fab didn't do anything wrong either. I don't understand either why everybody is so shocked that the NCAA concluded their investigation, it had to happen eventually. It doesn't mean the worlds going to stop now. We still have our best class ever and are looking at elite players for 2016. Hell the staff just went down to georgia to see an elite guard for 2016 two days ago. They seem really worried.

 

[Jake]

Lots of variables here. How many wins vacated? Is it enough to make 1,000 unattainable? Enough to make jb have to suffer the embarrassment of passing 900 or bob knight a second time? If so, no way does he do that. I think he'd step down. I think vacated wins (see 2012 - Fab Melo), maybe others, are in play...scholarships probably too. The big deal here is the post season ban. Would love to sacrifice this year, but I'm pretty sure it can't be this year - which means 2016 if at all. That will be the big fight. I have no idea what the extra benefits are...that came out if the blue.

 

[Orangezoo]

GIven the fact that some of the players named did indeed sit out for reasons I presume are linked to this investigation then that should be given the credence it deserves. If the NCAA is going to micromanage to the level that universities have no say over how to manage their institutions but instead roll in on the subjective pay for Kentucky's sins train SU needs to stand up to that BS. The NCAA has a lack of institutional control issue of its own and yet seems to continue on the attack at record pace with a serious lack of transparency. Add to that - as an organization who is supposed to be looking out for the entire landscape of collegiate athletics why would they not look into the the obvious issues going on at UK. Even if they are paper legal, Cal continues to push the limits on promotion of his program through linking to celebrities and other non-UK grads with high social/economic status. It is a complete sham and I for one hope it finally blows up in the NCAA's faces at some point. Sure that may change the landscape of college sports but it also would be better than the status quo.

 

[MSOrange]

Lots of variables here. How many wins vacated? Is it enough to make 1,000 unattainable? Enough to make jb have to suffer the embarrassment of passing 900 or bob knight a second time? If so, no way does he do that. I think he'd step down. I think vacated wins (see 2012 - Fab Melo), maybe others, are in play...scholarships probably too. The big deal here is the post season ban. Would love to sacrifice this year, but I'm pretty sure it can't be this year - which means 2016 if at all. That will be the big fight. I have no idea what the extra benefits are...that came out if the blue.

I agree about the postseason ban. If it comes to that- and I'm not saying that it will, I would much rather do it this year.

 

[Alsacs]

Lots of variables here. How many wins vacated? Is it enough to make 1,000 unattainable? Enough to make jb have to suffer the embarrassment of passing 900 or bob knight a second time? If so, no way does he do that. I think he'd step down. I think vacated wins (see 2012 - Fab Melo), maybe others, are in play...scholarships probably too. The big deal here is the post season ban. Would love to sacrifice this year, but I'm pretty sure it can't be this year - which means 2016 if at all. That will be the big fight. I have no idea what the extra benefits are...that came out if the blue.

If we are honestly looking at a possible postseason ban then Syracuse could do what Miami FB and self impose a postseason ban for 2015 just to show the NCAA we are taking the proactive approach. When Miami put themselves on a post season ban it helped them in front of the committee on infractions.

I doubt short of Syracuse being guilty of something MAJOR I can't see a multiple year postseason ban. I can't remember a basketball program ever getting a multiple year ban. So before the tournament this year Syracuse could decide on its own to make ourselves ineligible for postseason play.

 

[RF2044]

First who the e cares if JB loses some wins. I honestly don't think any fan should care about that. Second, probation is given no matter happens. Third, lost scholarships happen all the time as punishment and JB typically has 1 or 2 walkons on scholarship if we lose 1 or 2 scholarships while it will suck its not the end of the world.

All Syracuse should be fighting tooth and nail is a postseason ban. That is devastating. The rest of the stuff would suck but if we lost 1 scholarship for a decade it wouldn't really kill us just stop the walkon on scholarship we have been doing.

I agree--we should be angling for vacated wins, because that is the least impactful outcome. Even so, we could make the argument that it is historically significant, given that JB is second all time in wins [which hopefully will attach additional weight to that "penalty" that it might otherwise have attributed to it].

I don't think that a postseason ban is a given--we'll see how serious the improper benefit allegations are [and I reserve to change my mind on this once we see what they are]. The NCAA came at us with something like 256 original allegations in 1992, only to have those go down to 12 or so that were mostly BS. Are any of these going to stick? We'll see. But a postseason ban isn't a given. If you mean something different by 'probation' -- then we're not on the same page, and this paragraph may not perfectly apply to what you're saying. By 'probation,' do you mean a time period where we have to be on the straight and narrow, but don't necessarily incur additional penalties as long as we keep our nose clean? Because sign me up for that "penalty."

Scholarship restrictions are quite common. But again, look at how contemporary peer programs have been punished. Whatever transgressions we're guilty of, this is not anything on par with Penn State. Consider the Miami / OSU examples--if they lost 1 scholarship for football for much more significant infractions, then there's our baseline. And if our infractions aren't on par with what those schools did, why should we accept that penalty at all?

Lots of in flight logistics to consider. Thank god the NCAA is at its lowest point in terms of public perception, inconsistent enforcement, and member institutions challenging their authority / impartiality. All of those factors will work in our favor IF / when SU chooses to fight back.

 

[AirForceOrange]

We should have just swept the Fab and Southerland stuff under the rug, not self-reported and let them play, like other schools...then none of this would be happening. Almost feels like we are under scrutiny for finding out something was wrong, investigating and fixing it ourselves (like ideally it is supposed to work).

 

[Orangezoo]

We should have just swept the Fab and Southerland stuff under the rug, not self-reported and let them play, like other schools...then none of this would be happening. Almost feels like we are under scrutiny for finding out something was wrong, investigating and fixing it ourselves (like ideally it is supposed to work).

unfortunately this is very accurate. How many of us report a few untaxed dollars to the IRS? Many I am sure have had that happen a few times prob when younger. Report it and the IRS is likely to be more leniant than the NCAA is being right now. Either way it seems not reporting has more benefits these days.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

The school has done a lot of movement of personnel related to this over the last 2 seasons hoping that helps as well. Plus a new chancellor which at the least we can say we are under new management.

 

[cusetown1]

Loss of scholariships is very serious when it comes to basketball. Football you can get away with losing scholarships, I mean USC is playing well with like 40 scholarship players. To just assume we are going to lose scholly's AND a post season ban is thinking extremely worst case scenario.

 

[RF2044]

Loss of scholariships is very serious when it comes to basketball. Football you can get away with losing scholarships, I mean USC is playing well with like 40 scholarship players. To just assume we are going to lose scholly's AND a post season ban is thinking extremely worst case scenario.

Agreed. Much more serious in basketball than football. Which is why I think we can push back on that.

 

[cusetown1]

We should have just swept the Fab and Southerland stuff under the rug, not self-reported and let them play, like other schools...then none of this would be happening. Almost feels like we are under scrutiny for finding out something was wrong, investigating and fixing it ourselves (like ideally it is supposed to work).

Yup kind of sad to get punished for being proactive. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Another observation: If it took the NCAA this long to investigate Syracuse, which pretty much self-reported, then the NCAA infractions department is gonna have to open up a permanent satellite office at Chapel Hill...

 

[orangenirvana]

NCAA is all bark, no bite. I couldn't care less about this ridiculous hearing. Nothing but a scare tactic made public to help perpetuate the perception that the NCAA still exists and is upholding their phony civic duties that no one asks for. Wake me up when something real happens.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Agreed. Much more serious in basketball than football. Which is why I think we can push back on that.

Football is outside the 4 year window also - That is just ESPN looking for more clicks. Also I am not sure I trust "sources" anymore. What is that. I have a source that says ESPN has in the past embellished and even created news stories.

 

[Alsacs]

I agree--we should be angling for vacated wins, because that is the least impactful outcome. Even so, we could make the argument that it is historically significant, given that JB is second all time in wins [which hopefully will attached additional weight to that "penalty" that it might otherwise have attributed to it].

I don't think that a postseason ban is a given--we'll see how serious the improper benefit allegations are [and I reserve to change my mind on this once we see what they are]. The NCAA came at us with something like 256 original allegations in 1992, only to have those go down to 12 or so that were mostly BS. Are any of these going to stick? We'll see. But a postseason ban isn't a given. If you mean something different by 'probation' -- then we're not on the same page, and this paragraph may not perfectly apply to what you're saying. By 'probation,' do you mean a time period where we have to be on the straight and narrow, but don't necessarily incur additional penalties as long as we keep our nose clean? Because sign me up for that "penalty."

Scholarship restrictions are quite common. But again, look at how contemporary peer programs have been punished. Whatever transgressions we're guilty of, this is not anything on par with Penn State. Consider the Miami / OSU examples--if they lost 1 scholarship for football for much more significant infractions, then there's our baseline. And if our infractions aren't on par with what those schools did, why should we accept that penalty at all?

Lots of in flight logistics to consider. Thank god the NCAA is at its lowest point in terms of public perception, inconsistent enforcement, and member institutions challenging their authority / impartiality. All of those factors will work in our favor.

I take the term probation to mean like it does in the legal system. If your on probation from October 24, 2014 till October 24 2019 for those 5 years you must be in contact with the law or in this case the NCAA and provide any status updates and show any progress you have made and if you have anymore illegal activities or in the legal term fail to keep the peace and being a good citizen you will face more punishment at a lower standard of review.

I don't take probation to be a postseason ban I just take it to mean the NCAA will monitor us after the punishment is doled out to ensure changes are enforced and to make sure Syracuse improves.

 

[RF2044]

I take the term probation to mean like it does in the legal system. If your on probation from October 24, 2014 till October 24 2019 for those 5 years you must be in contact with the law or in this case the NCAA and provide any status updates and show any progress you have made and if you have anymore illegal activities or in the legal term fail to keep the peace and being a good citizen you will face more punishment at a lower standard of review.

I don't take probation to be a postseason ban I just take it to mean the NCAA will monitor us after the punishment is doled out to ensure changes are enforced and to make sure Syracuse improves.

Thanks for clarifying--if that's the case, it stinks but sign me up.

Vacated wins and probation--best case scenario, IMO.

 

[Knicks411]

Football is outside the 4 year window also - That is just ESPN looking for more clicks. Also I am not sure I trust "sources" anymore. What is that. I have a source that says ESPN has in the past embellished and even created news stories.

I think Brett McMurphy has been generally pretty good, at least with the conference expansion stuff.
But really, we can't worry about this till something concrete comes out. My gut feeling is a post-season ban seems unlikely, just cause how many of those have we seen in hoops lately? UConn was merely because they didn't clear a threshold and there was a clearly defined penalty for that.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Football is outside the 4 year window also - That is just ESPN looking for more clicks. Also I am not sure I trust "sources" anymore. What is that. I have a source that says ESPN has in the past embellished and even created news stories.

WHAT?!?! Is that true?!?! That is it...this world is over for me...I can't believe ESPN would do that?!?! That ledge looks very inviting!!

 

[AirForceOrange]

Thanks for clarifying--if that's the case, it stinks but sign me up.

Vacated wins and probation--best case scenario, IMO.

Why should any wins be vacated? Unless they found issues with other players. If it is about Fab and Southy, it appears as soon as the university found out what was happening, they were held out until the NCAA gave us the go ahead to let them play...