ESPN: Zen of the Zone

[Townie72]

When a team starts getting open shots on every possession the coach has to make a choice:
- option 1: stick with their D and hope that the other team will miss wide open shots
- option 2: change something with their existing D to hopefully stop what's working
- option 3: switch to a new D entirely

That exact thought process is what got Duke to start playing zone last night... they were getting killed in man 2 man as they couldn't stay in front of the Ducks and Oregon wasn't missing the dunks and layups they were getting. There was no option 2 as Coach K has zero depth this year so he opted for the zone.

It's never been clear to me why our coach, or any coach for that matter, would limit themselves to option 1 and 2 only when they are clearly not working. And I don't want to hear "but but we never practice man 2 man"... these kids have been playing man 2 man since they stepped on a basketball court. You just need to decide whether or not you're switching screens or not. To me trying the same thing that doesn't work over and over is just plain old stubbornness. No excuse for it.

Well, I'll grant you this. You really don't understand.

Boeheim's reasons for using the Zone are very different from K's in the scenario you painted.

One problem you have is a belief that M2M is better at defending long range shooters. As long as you keep hanging on to that mistaken belief, you'll continued to be baffled.

Add to this, a belief that a team doesn't have to practice M2M to play it.

The stubbornness you see is a failure of people --- Boeheim, in this case --- to agree with you.

It's not necessary that JB's logic be clear to you. It's only necessary that it be clear to him.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Just watching the first 5 minutes of that game, Providence is playing the "2-3 matchup zone" Packer says (apart from claiming our ali oop offense is illegal) that we have much better athletes that enable us to go m2m. Wonder where the Pitino learned the "2-3 matchup zone".

lol you have me interested now. What was illegal about the alley oop?

 

[HOFCeluck]

Well, I'll grant you this. You really don't understand.

Boeheim's reasons for using the Zone are very different from K's in the scenario you painted.

One problem you have is a belief that M2M is better at defending long range shooters. As long as you keep hanging on to that mistaken belief, you'll continued to be baffled.

Add to this, a belief that a team doesn't have to practice M2M to play it.

The stubbornness you see is a failure of people --- Boeheim, in this case --- to agree with you.

It's not necessary that JB's logic be clear to you. It's only necessary that it be clear to him.

So if the zone doesn't work and we lose, for any reason, then it's sort of a fait accompli right?

 

[Dave85]

lol you have me interested now. What was illegal about the alley oop?

What's should be illegal is idiotic commentary. The commentary has been such low quality.

 

[NJCuse97]

lol you have me interested now. What was illegal about the alley oop?

Paraphrasing here, but Packer said that Douglas shoots more than passes, and that most of his passes are in the cylinder, but refs aren't watching and we are getting away with it.

 

[Townie72]

So if the zone doesn't work and we lose, for any reason, then it's sort of a fait accompli right?

Not sure I understand this. What is it that is a "fait acompli" (an accomplished fact)?

 

[OrangeFoo]

Well, I'll grant you this. You really don't understand.

Boeheim's reasons for using the Zone are very different from K's in the scenario you painted.

One problem you have is a belief that M2M is better at defending long range shooters. As long as you keep hanging on to that mistaken belief, you'll continued to be baffled.

Add to this, a belief that a team doesn't have to practice M2M to play it.

The stubbornness you see is a failure of people --- Boeheim, in this case --- to agree with you.

It's not necessary that JB's logic be clear to you. It's only necessary that it be clear to him.

Where did I say anything about long range shooters? Pitt destroys us inside out other teams destroy us from the outside, others from the ft line... It really doesn't matter how we are getting beat, when you are getting beat you need a plan B.

 

[mark79]

lol you have me interested now. What was illegal about the alley oop?

Packer was claiming that Sherman Douglas' alley oop was so close to being a shot that they were catching it within the cylinder which would amount to offensive interference. He probably saw it happen and not get called once and decided he would be clever and point it out. Not so much.

 

[SWC75]

What JB has done since committing to the Zone is really a sophisticated management technique.

It's the same basic process that allows manufacturing costs on may products to fall continually. You learn and adjust, learn and adjust, over and over again. It's "Continuous Improvement" taken from the business world (and the Japanese originally) and applied to basketball.

After 16 years of learning and adjusting in playing, coaching, teaching and recruiting, his understanding of the zone and how to use it are way beyond what others could do by just experimenting with it.

 

[SWC75]

Where did I say anything about long range shooters? Pitt destroys us inside out other teams destroy us from the outside, others from the ft line... It really doesn't matter how we are getting beat, when you are getting beat you need a plan B.

But is Plan B necessarily an entirely different defense or an adjustment to the defense you are using?

 

[OrangeFoo]

But is Plan B necessarily an entirely different defense or an adjustment to the defense you are using?

He can make adjustments as option b but when that doesn't work? Pitt has solved for all adjustments the zone can make.

 

[Townie72]

Where did I say anything about long range shooters? Pitt destroys us inside out other teams destroy us from the outside, others from the ft line... It really doesn't matter how we are getting beat, when you are getting beat you need a plan B.

M2M won't fix that.

Plan B, C, D, etc are to modify the Zone.

M2M is no longer part of the plan anywhere at any time.

 

[Townie72]

He can make adjustments as option b but when that doesn't work? Pitt has solved for all adjustments the zone can make.

Are you aware of where SU stands in Total Defense, Defense against the 3 pt shot, etc?

Did you notice that we just held two teams that average in the 70's to 50 pts?

Losing a few games against Pitt isn't an adequate reason to introduce a defense that we rarely use and that every team runs and runs against 95% of the time.

 

[kirbivore]

View attachment 58476
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...tays-true-famous-syracuse-orange-zone-defense

 

[kirbivore]

lol you have me interested now. What was illegal about the alley oop?

I can remember him using the telestrater to point out how the catch is inside the cylinder.