Etan is one reason that makes me proud of my status as an alumnus.

ottodaorange

2nd String
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
586
Like
534
He is a person of conscience and character. His reference at the end of this article references Charles Dickens characters Scrooge and Tiny Tim from A Christmas Carol. I would go further, to the end of the tale, and one of my favorite quotes: "This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased."
 

CuseAJM

Walk On
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
97
Like
351
I really feel it's unfair for folks to be so critical of the rule. How many Rich Pauls are there? All the NCAA was doing is setting some guardrails, so that an athlete won't be represented by an unequipped agent.

Is a Bachelor's Degree necessary? Probably not. But is it really that bad for the NCAA to try and set other guardrails?

It's easy for the media to run with this 'Rich Paul rule' narrative, but cmon... think of the bigger picture.
 

jgeorge322

All American
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
6,788
Like
9,979
I really feel it's unfair for folks to be so critical of the rule. How many Rich Pauls are there? All the NCAA was doing is setting some guardrails, so that an athlete won't be represented by an unequipped agent.

Is a Bachelor's Degree necessary? Probably not. But is it really that bad for the NCAA to try and set other guardrails?

It's easy for the media to run with this 'Rich Paul rule' narrative, but cmon... think of the bigger picture.
Agree.

Also, the article to me is weak take and nothing havent heard 1000x before.

I like his, “it could be racism take.” But a black woman led the commission.
 

Capt. Tuttle

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
16,130
Like
17,495
I really feel it's unfair for folks to be so critical of the rule. How many Rich Pauls are there? All the NCAA was doing is setting some guardrails, so that an athlete won't be represented by an unequipped agent.

Is a Bachelor's Degree necessary? Probably not. But is it really that bad for the NCAA to try and set other guardrails?

It's easy for the media to run with this 'Rich Paul rule' narrative, but cmon... think of the bigger picture.
If the rules are really important, why haven't they been rules before this?
 

jgeorge322

All American
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
6,788
Like
9,979
EVERYTHING Etan writes seems to be based in racism. He's kind of a one-trick-pony in that regard.
Agree. And im sorry, but these kids arent indentured servants or slaves. Those comparisons need to end.
 

FRANKIEFAN

Starter
Joined
Apr 1, 2018
Messages
1,488
Like
1,265
Agree. And im sorry, but these kids arent indentured servants or slaves. Those comparisons need to end.
If the rules regarding the draft for basketball and football matched hockey and baseball I'd be with you 100%.

I've never gotten an explanation for why the black sports can't have players be drafted/enter the draft and still play NCAA.
 

jgeorge322

All American
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
6,788
Like
9,979
If the rules regarding the draft for basketball and football matched hockey and baseball I'd be with you 100%.

I've never gotten an explanation for why the black sports can't have players be drafted/enter the draft and still play NCAA.
Two questions:

That makes them equal to slaves or indentured servants? (To be clear, I am not advocating that the system is 100% fair. But what is in life.)

If the NBA or NFL came out and said we want the ncaa hockey draft rules, do you honestly believe the ncaa would refuse it?

And some comments, the nfl is 68% african american and 28% white. Thats not an insignificant amount of white players. I honestly dont believe there is a larger conspiracy to hold down the black race via the draft rules. I find that inference ridiculous. The nfl owners are 100% about their own pocketbook.

I believe the nfl and nba players get paid way more than other sports at the entry level. Maybe the owners want more proof of value before committing? Hence the rules.

I believe there are real race issues we have to confront in this country, but i also believe race is used as both a sword and a shield, and sometimes (not always) inappropriately. I believe the rules regarding the draft is an example of the inappropriate use. I also believe the market will dictate changes to amateur compensation in the future but the ncaa isnt as weak as etan suggests. The ncaa’s leverage is fan interest/support. The g-league doesnt have that and may never. So until the players essentially strike or statutes are passed, we wont see change happen fast. Just my guess.

Also, ive thought of some solutions. I think setting up a trust fund where players can earn credits toward getting money post leaving school would be the best way to handle it. The longer you stay and the better your team does, the more credit you earn towards a future pay out. I think something along those lines could satisfy all parties. My personal opinion is players benefiting off their own likeness is not workable, because that would essentially permit boosters to pay players to come to their school.
 
Last edited:

FRANKIEFAN

Starter
Joined
Apr 1, 2018
Messages
1,488
Like
1,265
Oh I agree on most of what you say. I think if players were to get paid they should be forced to graduate and get the money afterwards. I think they should get something like a chunk of the TV money delayed until graduation.

I just think race is the main reason why a hockey player can enter the draft and still play NCAA and a basketball player can't.

No clue which side is the one that should budge NCAA or NFL/NBA. These are the only sports that really generate profit everything else runs at a deficit even hockey and baseball for the most part.

As Syracuse fans the hockey model would be great nearly all our incoming freshmen would be draft picks of some NBA team like BU in hockey.

And I think the idea rhetoric college degrees are worthless are pretty laughable the education is better than money for 99% of these guys. If your not good enough for the NBA not wanting a college degree is insane.
 

Ptzburghcuse

Walk On
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
110
Like
149
The entirety of this situation makes me sad. I love college football and basketball. I've always loved the passion these kids have and the energy the fans can generate at the collegiate level. For me, pro althetes (aside from the playoffs), too often appear to be going through the motions.

We can say pay the players but what then happens to every other sport not named football or basketball and more specifically, men's football and basketball? Do these other programs simply die as players can't be paid? What do you pay a top 25 recruit relative to a 100-200 guy? Is there a cap?

I'm not saying our current system works either. It would appear college football, and to some extent college basketball, don't have caps today which is why we start the college football year with less than (sometimes significantly less) legitimate title contenders. For everyone else there is little to cheer for...sadly. basketball, we have the same half dozen universities each year plus a couple wildcards.

I certainly don't want to watch a one year league consisting of the top 100 players with no team building, allegiance etc competing for, at least solely, draft position.
 

OttoMets

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
14,576
Like
18,675
Two questions:

That makes them equal to slaves or indentured servants? (To be clear, I am not advocating that the system is 100% fair. But what is in life.)

If the NBA or NFL came out and said we want the ncaa hockey draft rules, do you honestly believe the ncaa would refuse it?

And some comments, the nfl is 68% african american and 28% white. Thats not an insignificant amount of white players. I honestly dont believe there is a larger conspiracy to hold down the black race via the draft rules. I find that inference ridiculous. The nfl owners are 100% about their own pocketbook.

I believe the nfl and nba players get paid way more than other sports at the entry level. Maybe the owners want more proof of value before committing? Hence the rules.

I believe there are real race issues we have to confront in this country, but i also believe race is used as both a sword and a shield, and sometimes (not always) inappropriately. I believe the rules regarding the draft is an example of the inappropriate use. I also believe the market will dictate changes to amateur compensation in the future but the ncaa isnt as weak as etan suggests. The ncaa’s leverage is fan interest/support. The g-league doesnt have that and may never. So until the players essentially strike or statutes are passed, we wont see change happen fast. Just my guess.

Also, ive thought of some solutions. I think setting up a trust fund where players can earn credits toward getting money post leaving school would be the best way to handle it. The longer you stay and the better your team does, the more credit you earn towards a future pay out. I think something along those lines could satisfy all parties. My personal opinion is players benefiting off their own likeness is not workable, because that would essentially permit boosters to pay players to come to their school.
That is an excellent post. Nice.

I don't disagree with Etan on the whole, but the NCAA rule was on its face completely reasonable...shouldn't we want kids to be protected from shady hucksters? Applying an education requirement for agents was a fine way to try to accomplish that (like a lot of industries do). Pushback against this, and the tone it took, was unfortunate.
 

RandygoCuse

All Conference
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
2,405
Like
2,528
That is an excellent post. Nice.

I don't disagree with Etan on the whole, but the NCAA rule was on its face completely reasonable...shouldn't we want kids to be protected from shady hucksters? Applying an education requirement for agents was a fine way to try to accomplish that (like a lot of industries do). Pushback against this, and the tone it took, was unfortunate.
I think the question it comes down to was whether the NCAA targeted Rich Paul with this rule.
 

RoysRunts

All Conference
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
2,383
Like
657
So where did Etan get his writing skills and who paid for it? The only Millionaire I know who refers to Indentured Servitude.. (10 Years in NBA)
 

OttoinGrotto

Professor Irwin Corey
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
27,998
Like
52,468
I really feel it's unfair for folks to be so critical of the rule. How many Rich Pauls are there? All the NCAA was doing is setting some guardrails, so that an athlete won't be represented by an unequipped agent.

Is a Bachelor's Degree necessary? Probably not. But is it really that bad for the NCAA to try and set other guardrails?

It's easy for the media to run with this 'Rich Paul rule' narrative, but cmon... think of the bigger picture.
I don't see why the NCAA is involved at all.
 

Eric15

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
16,715
Like
42,631
I really feel it's unfair for folks to be so critical of the rule. How many Rich Pauls are there? All the NCAA was doing is setting some guardrails, so that an athlete won't be represented by an unequipped agent.

Is a Bachelor's Degree necessary? Probably not. But is it really that bad for the NCAA to try and set other guardrails?
A huge problem in the United States today are college degrees being required for jobs that don't really need them. It has led to colleges essentially operating like a cartel, massive amounts of unnecessary debt for students, and university bureaucrats making way too much money.

If you want to have a specific exam for people who wish to be an agent that asks questions tailored to that industry, then that's completely reasonable. But the idea that someone who has a BA in some obscure major is suddenly qualified to be an agent is arbitrary and stupid.
 

HSPORANGE

2nd String
Joined
Sep 12, 2016
Messages
542
Like
872
Oh I agree on most of what you say. I think if players were to get paid they should be forced to graduate and get the money afterwards. I think they should get something like a chunk of the TV money delayed until graduation.

I just think race is the main reason why a hockey player can enter the draft and still play NCAA and a basketball player can't.

No clue which side is the one that should budge NCAA or NFL/NBA. These are the only sports that really generate profit everything else runs at a deficit even hockey and baseball for the most part.

As Syracuse fans the hockey model would be great nearly all our incoming freshmen would be draft picks of some NBA team like BU in hockey.

And I think the idea rhetoric college degrees are worthless are pretty laughable the education is better than money for 99% of these guys. If your not good enough for the NBA not wanting a college degree is insane.
FYI hockey players do not enter the draft. They are draft eligible at a certain age (right around 18). If a 18 year old hockey player is drafted he can only play in the NHL, college, or major junior. 18 year olds are not allowed to play in the AHL or ECHL. Most 18 year olds drafted (not in top 5-10) are encouraged to go to the college they committed to, play another year of major junior, or play in a professional league in home country (example Swedes playing in Sweedish Elite League). Hockey draft is 110% different than the other professional leagues.
 

cuseinseattle

All American
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
4,817
Like
11,243
A huge problem in the United States today are college degrees being required for jobs that don't really need them. It has led to colleges essentially operating like a cartel, massive amounts of unnecessary debt for students, and university bureaucrats making way too much money.

If you want to have a specific exam for people who wish to be an agent that asks questions tailored to that industry, then that's completely reasonable. But the idea that someone who has a BA in some obscure major is suddenly qualified to be an agent is arbitrary and stupid.
100%
 

sufandu

All American
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
7,197
Like
7,082
A huge problem in the United States today are college degrees being required for jobs that don't really need them. It has led to colleges essentially operating like a cartel, massive amounts of unnecessary debt for students, and university bureaucrats making way too much money.

If you want to have a specific exam for people who wish to be an agent that asks questions tailored to that industry, then that's completely reasonable. But the idea that someone who has a BA in some obscure major is suddenly qualified to be an agent is arbitrary and stupid.
Couldn't agree more. And along those same lines, there are fields requiring higher level degrees than they did in the past with the intention that they'll be more respected. We care too much about pieces paper.
 

Online statistics

Members online
249
Guests online
568
Total visitors
817

Top Bottom