Exhibition thoughts

[General20]

Headline for this game will be: pedestrian 10 point win against a bad Buffalo team, and I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

However we need to keep in mind that this is an exhibition, they look different than regular season games do because they are played differently than regular season games are.

The thing that really stood out to me was Red's decision to have Kyle setting screens for George - over and over. And over and over again Buffalo correctly decided to double George off the screen and force the ball out of his hands, leaving us with Kyle in speace around the free throw line.

This worked pretty okay for most of the game because SU hit around 40% of their 3's which kept the lead around 15. Still it seemed to me like something they would never schematically try during the regular season. Why keep putting the ball in the hands of your least creative player and worst shooter? Especially when it pushed Freeman to periphery and made him completely invisible.

With about 3 Minutes left in the game we saw something closer to our real offense, I think. Buffalo hit four straight 3s and cut the lead down to single digits. All of a sudden Kyle stopped screening for George and Feeeman started doing it instead. All of a sudden SU started scoring down low instead of relying on 3s, and all of a sudden the offense (to my eyes) looked a lot better. They ended up winning by 10 despite Buffalo hitting a fifth 3 in a row.

It would take someone smarter than me to tell you how good Syracuse is going to be this year. What I can tell you is the team we saw in this exhibition game wont look much like the regular season team schematically speaking.

Individually speaking, I saw a pretty nice 8 man rotation of George, Starling, Anthony, Kingz, Freeman, Betsy, Kyle, and Souare.

Buffalo is a mid-major who looks like a mid major, by that I mean they are both undersized and also not particularly athletic. Even against them Fennell looked like a mid-major type athlete. He's not going to be ready for a while. Same with Womack. Zephir, is like Chaz Owens, a glorified walk-on.

White is, of course, the unknown not having played yet. He is a highly rated recruit, but I think will have trouble taking minutes from Freeman, Kingz, and Betsey. He might have an easier time earning minutes as a small ball 5. We will see.

 

[Orangezoo]

Headline for this game will be: pedestrian 10 point win against a bad Buffalo team, and I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

However we need to keep in mind that this is an exhibition, they look different than regular season games do because they are played differently than regular season games are.

The thing that really stood out to me was Red's decision to have Kyle setting screens for George - over and over. And over and over again Buffalo correctly decided to double George off the screen and force the ball out of his hands, leaving us with Kyle in speace around the free throw line.

This worked pretty okay for most of the game because SU hit around 40% of their 3's which kept the lead around 15. Still it seemed to me like something they would never schematically try during the regular season. Why keep putting the ball in the hands of your least creative player and worst shooter? Especially when it pushed Freeman to periphery and made him completely invisible.

With about 3 Minutes left in the game we saw something closer to our real offense, I think. Buffalo hit four straight 3s and cut the lead down to single digits. All of a sudden Kyle stopped screening for George and Feeeman started doing it instead. All of a sudden SU started scoring down low instead of relying on 3s, and all of a sudden the offense (to my eyes) looked a lot better. They ended up winning by 10 despite Buffalo hitting a fifth 3 in a row.

It would take someone smarter than me to tell you how good Syracuse is going to be this year. What I can tell you is the team we saw in this exhibition game wont look much like the regular season team schematically speaking.

Individually speaking, I saw a pretty nice 8 man rotation of George, Starling, Anthony, Kingz, Freeman, Betsy, Kyle, and Souare.

Buffalo is a mid-major who looks like a mid major, by that I mean they are both undersized and also not particularly athletic. Even against them Fennell looked like a mid-major type athlete. He's not going to be ready for a while. Same with Womack. Zephir, is like Chaz Owens, a glorified walk-on.

White is, of course, the unknown not having played yet. He is a highly rated recruit, but I think will have trouble taking minutes from Freeman, Kingz, and Betsey. He might have an easier time earning minutes as a small ball 5. We will see.

A couple of things-

1 - Time will tell but I don’t think Fennels athleticism will matter much in terms of his playing time. He’s crafty and smart and a high IQ player in general who showed he has a solid shot in the World Cup. I think he earns his way on the floor and is effective as a reserve albeit in limited time.

2- Sadiq is a tbd but if he is a high motor and big time defender he is going to get minutes even at the expense of those other guys or if we go without Kyle or Souare on the floor.

3- I concur on the offense looking more like the norm late. I will also say that when they switched to the short roll even in the first half it gave UB problems. I still think you see Kyle being used in that action but by no means exclusively like was the case to your point.

4- The make up of this UB team is a bit more like the old Oates teams( not as talented of course) in that they have more physically strong bully ball types out there. This is a change from how they have looked the previous two years. No idea if they are any good. McKenna is a bit of an interesting player given his journey and looks to be a problem in that league. Freitag didn’t play at Wisky but has a solid pedigree and talent. Pair that with their returning guys and that roster is good enough to compete in the MAC in this portal era imho. That means nothing for us though of course.

 

[Niastri]

Headline for this game will be: pedestrian 10 point win against a bad Buffalo team, and I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

However we need to keep in mind that this is an exhibition, they look different than regular season games do because they are played differently than regular season games are.

The thing that really stood out to me was Red's decision to have Kyle setting screens for George - over and over. And over and over again Buffalo correctly decided to double George off the screen and force the ball out of his hands, leaving us with Kyle in speace around the free throw line.

This worked pretty okay for most of the game because SU hit around 40% of their 3's which kept the lead around 15. Still it seemed to me like something they would never schematically try during the regular season. Why keep putting the ball in the hands of your least creative player and worst shooter? Especially when it pushed Freeman to periphery and made him completely invisible.

With about 3 Minutes left in the game we saw something closer to our real offense, I think. Buffalo hit four straight 3s and cut the lead down to single digits. All of a sudden Kyle stopped screening for George and Feeeman started doing it instead. All of a sudden SU started scoring down low instead of relying on 3s, and all of a sudden the offense (to my eyes) looked a lot better. They ended up winning by 10 despite Buffalo hitting a fifth 3 in a row.

It would take someone smarter than me to tell you how good Syracuse is going to be this year. What I can tell you is the team we saw in this exhibition game wont look much like the regular season team schematically speaking.

Individually speaking, I saw a pretty nice 8 man rotation of George, Starling, Anthony, Kingz, Freeman, Betsy, Kyle, and Souare.

Buffalo is a mid-major who looks like a mid major, by that I mean they are both undersized and also not particularly athletic. Even against them Fennell looked like a mid-major type athlete. He's not going to be ready for a while. Same with Womack. Zephir, is like Chaz Owens, a glorified walk-on.

White is, of course, the unknown not having played yet. He is a highly rated recruit, but I think will have trouble taking minutes from Freeman, Kingz, and Betsey. He might have an easier time earning minutes as a small ball 5. We will see.

I agree completely on your point about Fennell. He seems kind of behind after coming to Syracuse late after playing for the Aussie national team. The offense just felt shaky with the ball in his hands. He was credited with two assists and a turnover, I would have guessed those numbers should be reversed. He missed every shot he took and only got 12 minutes.

With the offensive limitations of Kyle, Souare and White, we might find that Red tries to keep the time with two of them very limited. White and Souare might be in a battle for minutes, with instant offense Betsey having already leapfrogged them in the rotation.

Betsey actually took minutes last night from Kingz and Starling, it seemed. I'm very curious to see how this shakes out when White is back and the minutes for the deep bench get pared down. Guys unlikely to play much (Zephir, Womack and Fennell) got 25 minutes last night that will be split among other players.

I feel it could be Kyle, Freeman, Betsey as the big men, with Kingz, Starling, and Anthony the SF/3G rotation, with George getting infrequent rest.

Maybe White/Souare/Fennell are each a .5 in the rotation?

Who backs up George when he had to be out? I hadn't even hypothesized the answer might be Anthony... But Red seemed to give him an extended tryout at running the offense last night. In the moment, I took that as a reaction to Fennell's shakiness. Maybe Red is leaning that way.

 

[Orangezoo]

I agree completely on your point about Fennell. He seems kind of behind after coming to Syracuse late after playing for the Aussie national team. The offense just felt shaky with the ball in his hands. He was credited with two assists and a turnover, I would have guessed those numbers should be reversed. He missed every shot he took and only got 12 minutes.

With the offensive limitations of Kyle, Souare and White, we might find that Red tries to keep the time with two of them very limited. White and Souare might be in a battle for minutes, with instant offense Betsey having already leapfrogged them in the rotation.

Betsey actually took minutes last night from Kingz and Starling, it seemed. I'm very curious to see how this shakes out when White is back and the minutes for the deep bench get pared down. Guys unlikely to play much (Zephir, Womack and Fennell) got 25 minutes last night that will be split among other players.

I feel it could be Kyle, Freeman, Betsey as the big men, with Kingz, Starling, and Anthony the SF/3G rotation, with George getting infrequent rest.

Maybe White/Souare/Fennell are each a .5 in the rotation?

Who backs up George when he had to be out? I hadn't even hypothesized the answer might be Anthony... But Red seemed to give him an extended tryout at running the offense last night. In the moment, I took that as a reaction to Fennell's shakiness. Maybe Red is leaning that way.

Not sure I saw any shakiness from Fennell. He had a couple of mistakes but seemed to be fine to me as he settled in. He did rush a shot but overall seemed fine. He appeared more comfortable with getting into the offense than Kiyan to me. Kiyan was more comfortable looking to get to his spot to attack from the wing vs Fennell who operated more in the middle of the floor.

For better or worse, George’s post game comments of certain groups not having played together that much if at all until this game showed as much as anything out there. Hopefully practice will evolve to going with the most likely combos going forward now.

 

[hoopsupstate]

It’s hard to judge freshman after one exhibition game. Give them a dozen or so games to see how they integrate into the college game. Our freshman don’t need to be difference makers, just play a role that helps the team to win games.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The thing that really stood out to me was Red's decision to have Kyle setting screens for George - over and over. And over and over again Buffalo correctly decided to double George off the screen and force the ball out of his hands, leaving us with Kyle in speace around the free throw line.

This is why Donnie should be the pick man up high. Kyle, just like Eddie, is ZERO THREAT to score from out there.

High / Low Double Post Offense is the obvious answer, with Kyle down low and Donnie in the high post. Red apparently has learned nothing in this regard since last year.

You don't use guys up high on the pick and roll who present no threat to score. It's so easy to double team the ball handler if the guy making the pick can't score. I mean, come on folks, this isn't that hard.

This worked pretty okay for most of the game because SU hit around 40% of their 3's which kept the lead around 15. Still it seemed to me like something they would never schematically try during the regular season. Why keep putting the ball in the hands of your least creative player and worst shooter? Especially when it pushed Freeman to periphery and made him completely invisible.

Letting Donnie float at the perimeter is a waste of his talent. I've said it 100 times, but Kevin Durant started out by taking advantage of his physical talents to find the spot where nobody could stop him from scoring. That was developing his midrange game, just like Troy Weaver taught Melo and Hakeem the jab step.

Boeheim was a master of this - find where your player has his best chance of scoring, and then get him the ball in that spot.

With about 3 Minutes left in the game we saw something closer to our real offense, I think. Buffalo hit four straight 3s and cut the lead down to single digits. All of a sudden Kyle stopped screening for George and Feeeman started doing it instead. All of a sudden SU started scoring down low instead of relying on 3s, and all of a sudden the offense (to my eyes) looked a lot better. They ended up winning by 10 despite Buffalo hitting a fifth 3 in a row.

It would take someone smarter than me to tell you how good Syracuse is going to be this year. What I can tell you is the team we saw in this exhibition game wont look much like the regular season team schematically speaking.

Yes, this is the "good news" part - Red has clearly made strategic changes. Very hopeful about the aggressive defense, at least until late in the game. But it's not like that's never happened before to us.

Individually speaking, I saw a pretty nice 8 man rotation of George, Starling, Anthony, Kingz, Freeman, Betsy, Kyle, and Souare.

I think that the key to unlocking this team's potential will be what Mike Brown hopes to bring to the Knicks - using more depth, using more fresh players to keep up a higher pace of play.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not sure I saw any shakiness from Fennell. He had a couple of mistakes but seemed to be fine to me as he settled in. He did rush a shot but overall seemed fine. He appeared more comfortable with getting into the offense than Kiyan to me. Kiyan was more comfortable looking to get to his spot to attack from the wing vs Fennell who operated more in the middle of the floor.

For better or worse, George’s post game comments of certain groups not having played together that much if at all until this game showed as much as anything out there. Hopefully practice will evolve to going with the most likely combos going forward now.

Yeah, I think Fennell is going to be a rotation player for us this year.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Yeah, I think Fennell is going to be a rotation player for us this year.

Fennell is a very good player. We hit threes when he was in due to his passing and driving. He is 6’6” add good size

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Fennell will play. He’s the only ball handler we have outside of George. We don’t want too much of JJ at the point this year, even though I think we see it at different times.

 

[CuseMan4]

Mmmm this is going to turn some heads and will be unpopular with some people. But I think our best line up, and we’ll see more of this by the end of the season than you think.

PG: George
SG:Starling
SF: Kingz
PF: Betsy
C: Freeman

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Mmmm this is going to turn some heads and will be unpopular with some people. But I think our best line up, and we’ll see more of this by the end of the season than you think.

PG: George
SG:Starling
SF: Kingz
PF: Betsy
C: Freeman

Curious if this is from information or observation. (I didn’t see the game). Thanks in advance

 

[Niastri]

Mmmm this is going to turn some heads and will be unpopular with some people. But I think our best line up, and we’ll see more of this by the end of the season than you think.

PG: George
SG:Starling
SF: Kingz
PF: Betsy
C: Freeman

I think that might be our best offensive lineup, but Freeman will struggle to guard more physical centers, and Betsey might not be big enough to help with that.

Also, Freeman is a great defensive rebounder, but Betsey hasn't established himself that way yet. He only had 3 against Buffalo, and has a career DRB% of only 10%. For reference, Freeman was at 30% last season (an elite number) and Kyle is at 13.5% last season (a number which worried me, somewhat alleviated by his 9 boards against Buffalo).

I think we are putting a lot of pressure on Freeman to both guard the other team's center and get all the rebounds with your proposed lineup. I think this is going to get Freeman in unnecessary foul trouble. When Kyle is on the bench, I hope either Souare or White are out there to keep the size up.

When Kyle is on the floor, we can play small with 3 guards, but I would avoid that without Kyle.

I think I will grow to love the Freeman, White, Betsey, Starling/Kingz, George lineup when Kyle needs a rest, but a lot depends on White living up to his high school highlights and preseason hype.

 

[Orangezoo]

I think that might be our best offensive lineup, but Freeman will struggle to guard more physical centers, and Betsey might not be big enough to help with that.

Also, Freeman is a great defensive rebounder, but Betsey hasn't established himself that way yet. He only had 3 against Buffalo, and has a career DRB% of only 10%. For reference, Freeman was at 30% last season (an elite number) and Kyle is at 13.5% last season (a number which worried me, somewhat alleviated by his 9 boards against Buffalo).

I think we are putting a lot of pressure on Freeman to both guard the other team's center and get all the rebounds with your proposed lineup. I think this is going to get Freeman in unnecessary foul trouble. When Kyle is on the bench, I hope either Souare or White are out there to keep the size up.

When Kyle is on the floor, we can play small with 3 guards, but I would avoid that without Kyle.

I think I will grow to love the Freeman, White, Betsey, Starling/Kingz, George lineup when Kyle needs a rest, but a lot depends on White living up to his high school highlights and preseason hype.

When Kyle was disciplined in the post he was a real problem. He also plays a little like the the guy from Morehead state who was a rebound machine in the way he works on the glass both offensive and defensive. As he settles in more his activity will be a problem for teams just as Donnie’s three level ability will be as well. I think Kyle will be more valuable than some think given how aggressive he is attacking the rim.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Mmmm this is going to turn some heads and will be unpopular with some people. But I think our best line up, and we’ll see more of this by the end of the season than you think.

PG: George
SG:Starling
SF: Kingz
PF: Betsy
C: Freeman

I love this lineup for end of halves. Puts a lot of stress on the defense, no one to help off of. I expect this to be the group who closes with a lead, might not trust Kyle to make free throws yet.

 

[Ottoman]

I'm not as big a Fennel fan as many on this board, but he is a 6'6" point guard. He will almost always look less athletic than the opposing player, but should more than make up for that with length.

I don't think he played all that well against Buffalo, but I did notice that the ball movement and tempo improved when he was in the game.

 

[dasher]

Mmmm this is going to turn some heads and will be unpopular with some people. But I think our best line up, and we’ll see more of this by the end of the season than you think.

PG: George
SG:Starling
SF: Kingz
PF: Betsy
C: Freeman

Yeah, I think you will see a lineup like that when we have the lead, for sure.

 

[dasher]

When Kyle was disciplined in the post he was a real problem. He also plays a little like the the guy from Morehead state who was a rebound machine in the way he works on the glass both offensive and defensive. As he settles in more his activity will be a problem for teams just as Donnie’s three level ability will be as well. I think Kyle will be more valuable than some think given how aggressive he is attacking the rim.

Yet, you can't have him on the floor when you are nursing a lead late in the game

 

[Orangezoo]

Yet, you can't have him on the floor when you are nursing a lead late in the game

In fairness it’s certainly a problem we are all too familiar with here at SU….

 

[Briancuse]

Fennell will play. He’s the only ball handler we have outside of George. We don’t want too much of JJ at the point this year, even though I think we see it at different times.

Never saw him play until sat, was very impressed. The announcer didnt seem to think he was going to be a good outside shooter, Ive seen some posts on hers seem to think otherwise. What do you guys think?

 

[CardiacCuse]

I agree completely on your point about Fennell. He seems kind of behind after coming to Syracuse late after playing for the Aussie national team. The offense just felt shaky with the ball in his hands. He was credited with two assists and a turnover, I would have guessed those numbers should be reversed. He missed every shot he took and only got 12 minutes.

With the offensive limitations of Kyle, Souare and White, we might find that Red tries to keep the time with two of them very limited. White and Souare might be in a battle for minutes, with instant offense Betsey having already leapfrogged them in the rotation.

Betsey actually took minutes last night from Kingz and Starling, it seemed. I'm very curious to see how this shakes out when White is back and the minutes for the deep bench get pared down. Guys unlikely to play much (Zephir, Womack and Fennell) got 25 minutes last night that will be split among other players.

I feel it could be Kyle, Freeman, Betsey as the big men, with Kingz, Starling, and Anthony the SF/3G rotation, with George getting infrequent rest.

Maybe White/Souare/Fennell are each a .5 in the rotation?

Who backs up George when he had to be out? I hadn't even hypothesized the answer might be Anthony... But Red seemed to give him an extended tryout at running the offense last night. In the moment, I took that as a reaction to Fennell's shakiness. Maybe Red is leaning that way.

i like kiyan but hes no PG. his scoring is really good. but his body/strength is pretty small/weak for defense, too. gonna take some work to get there. fennell is a much better pg at the moment, and its not close.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Never saw him play until sat, was very impressed. The announcer didnt seem to think he was going to be a good outside shooter, Ive seen some posts on hers seem to think otherwise. What do you guys think?

He can shoot.

Was pleasantly surprised how comfortable he looked handling the ball.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Never saw him play until sat, was very impressed. The announcer didnt seem to think he was going to be a good outside shooter, Ive seen some posts on hers seem to think otherwise. What do you guys think?

He knocked down every three ball on the first two racks at the event last week at the Melo Center. He can certainly shoot. Satalin misspoke when he said that.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Never saw him play until sat, was very impressed. The announcer didnt seem to think he was going to be a good outside shooter, Ive seen some posts on hers seem to think otherwise. What do you guys think?

I watched Australia in the summer international tournament they played in. He had a few games where he hit 3 or 4 three-pointers. He's got a nice stroke. He's big, too, around 6-5 or 6-6.

 

[Surfan06001]

He’s crafty and smart and a high IQ player

I would add that he’s gritty, sneaky athletic, and plays like his dad was his coach.

 

[Hoopsfan830]

I think that might be our best offensive lineup, but Freeman will struggle to guard more physical centers, and Betsey might not be big enough to help with that.

Also, Freeman is a great defensive rebounder, but Betsey hasn't established himself that way yet. He only had 3 against Buffalo, and has a career DRB% of only 10%. For reference, Freeman was at 30% last season (an elite number) and Kyle is at 13.5% last season (a number which worried me, somewhat alleviated by his 9 boards against Buffalo).

I think we are putting a lot of pressure on Freeman to both guard the other team's center and get all the rebounds with your proposed lineup. I think this is going to get Freeman in unnecessary foul trouble. When Kyle is on the bench, I hope either Souare or White are out there to keep the size up.

When Kyle is on the floor, we can play small with 3 guards, but I would avoid that without Kyle.

I think I will grow to love the Freeman, White, Betsey, Starling/Kingz, George lineup when Kyle needs a rest, but a lot depends on White living up to his high school highlights and preseason hype.

This was the problem at UCLA when they forced Bilodeau to play the 5 instead of Kyle or Mara. Bilodeau normally couldn’t defend the opposing big, got in foul trouble, and spent a lot of energy at both ends. I think Freeman would have the same fate over long stretches.