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Exhibition Thoughts

General20

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The lesson I learned from this game . . . there is a glaring performance gap between our A team players and our B team players.

In case you are wondering, the A team is:

Ennis
Cooney
Fair
Grant
Keita

This is going to be our A team all year long and there is only one thing you need to know about them - they are ready to go. In my opinion they are ahead of the curve and playing better than most teams do at this point in the season. This game was not for them, so I'm not going to dwell on any of their performances. As a whole the A team shot close to 60% from the floor (and from 3).

Now lets take a look at our B team.

Gbinije (zero meaningful game experience - little total experience)
Patterson (zero experience)
Johnson (zero experience)
Roberson (zero experience)
Christmas (little meaningful experience)
Coleman (zero meaningful experience - little total experience)

Right now none of the B team players look like they belong on the same court as the A team players, but that should not be too much of a surprise given their experience levels. Out of these players only Patterson played well - his stat line - 11 points (in 15 minutes) 2 assists, 2 turnovers.

What I want to do is break down the struggles each of these guys are having and how I see them contributing down the line.

Gbinije - The cliff notes on Gbinije are: good on D, bad on O. In my opinion he has the lowest ceiling of anybody on the team. This wont make him a fan favorite, but it also does not preclude him from being an important cog. Everybody is wondering what our team will look like offensively with Ennis on the bench, but with Gbinije we know we will actually be better defensively. Again, not sexy, but important. In this game Gbinije continued to show that he does not offer much offensively, and he showed (for the first time) that he cannot handle playing point against a press. Right now Gbinije has the inside track on the back up point guard role, but if he can't cut it against pressure, he might be passed. The more interesting battle to me is if Gbinije can hold onto the back up shooting guard role, or phrased another way, can we afford to have a poor offensive player get quality minutes at shooting guard?

Patterson - As I said earlier, he played well. Patterson could not hit a shot in Canada, but he will be a good shooter before he leaves Syracuse, I am reasonably confident about that. Hitting shots is great, but the thing that stood out to me is that when Gbinije fell apart against the press, the ball was put in Patterson's hands, and he came through. Breaking the press with ease on two consecutive trips, and finding open teammates for dunks each time. Defensively Patterson has real presence. He needs to learn what he can and can't get away with, but once he does I think he will be even better than Gbinije defensively, which should make things interesting. Patterson isn't going to play this year unless he can learn the zone quickly and add some consistency to his game. I think this is very possible. Pay attention to his decision making (especially defensively), when he stops looking like a freshmen he might start seeing the court a lot.

Johnson - In this game Johnson didn't make any shots, but throughout the course of his career making shots is not going to be one of Johnson's problems so you can forget this one time bad shooting game. Johnson's problem right now is he does not have a definitive position. He won't play any meaningful forward minutes as a freshman. Can he handle playing defense at the top of the key? If he can, there are shooting guard minutes to be had. With Johnson its the defense that matters most.

Roberson - Like Johnson he missed a lot of shots and struggled defensively, but he also showed that he has some major skills. Keep in mind that Roberson is well behind the rest of the team in practice reps. There is only one thing he needs to become a contributor, and that's time. At some point I think Roberson will eclipse Christmas and Coleman for the third forward minutes.

Christmas - In this game he had large stretches where he was pretty much invisible. This is a problem that has plagued him his whole career and I am not sure that at this point it can be fixed. Keita will get most of the center minutes. Either Christmas or Coleman will be his backup. I think Christmas has the inside track but this is anybodies race. The best we can hope for with Christmas is inconstancy throughout the year, with some good play sprinkled in when it matters most.

Coleman - Rebounded like a monster in this game, but did not look particularly good on offense (which is a problem because defense is not his strength). My guess is whoever loses out on the B team center role also loses whatever forward minutes there might be to Roberson. Both Christmas and Coleman will be given every opportunity to succeed, and hopefully they both make strides in the right direction because we are going to need them both next year.
 
The only thing I'd disagree with is the statement that Christmas has little meaningful experience. He's contributed to some big wins.

I would agree the guy was a starter on an Elite 8 team as a frosh, who got tons of meaningful minutes when Fab bailed. Last year he was a starter playing close to 20 mins a game on a final four team.

Pretty sure teams across the country would kill for a big with that type of limited experience.
 
It was tough for me to watch DC2 and Rak last night. The one thing I will say is that I am almost pulling more for DC2 because if he plays it means he comes around offensively which gives us a different look also he is busting his ass and trying hard where as Rak for whatever reason just doesn't have the zest. It showed on the first play he touched it offensovely. He got the ball was wide open no one around and he took to long and allowed some one to rotate and block him. I knew right then he wouldn't have a good game.

Backup PG may wind up being whatever group does the best breaking press minus Ennis because we could see the press most games without him. I do prefer Cooney/Patterson's style of getting the ball and dribbling it quickly up court to MikeG slowly working it which seems to just give the defense more opertunities to harrass him. MikeG hasn't closed the door on anyone at the 1,2 or 3 IMO. Buss, BJ and Roberson all look to be better players than him at some point. When that will be who knows.
 
The lesson I learned from this game . . . there is a glaring performance gap between our A team players and our B team players.

In case you are wondering, the A team is:

Ennis
Cooney
Fair
Grant
Keita

This is going to be our A team all year long and there is only one thing you need to know about them - they are ready to go. In my opinion they are ahead of the curve and playing better than most teams do at this point in the season. This game was not for them, so I'm not going to dwell on any of their performances. As a whole the A team shot close to 60% from the floor (and from 3).

Now lets take a look at our B team.

Gbinije (zero meaningful game experience - little total experience)
Patterson (zero experience)
Johnson (zero experience)
Roberson (zero experience)
Christmas (little meaningful experience)
Coleman (zero meaningful experience - little total experience)

Right now none of the B team players look like they belong on the same court as the A team players, but that should not be too much of a surprise given their experience levels. Out of these players only Patterson played well - his stat line - 11 points (in 15 minutes) 2 assists, 2 turnovers.

What I want to do is break down the struggles each of these guys are having and how I see them contributing down the line.

Gbinije - The cliff notes on Gbinije are: good on D, bad on O. In my opinion he has the lowest ceiling of anybody on the team. This wont make him a fan favorite, but it also does not preclude him from being an important cog. Everybody is wondering what our team will look like offensively with Ennis on the bench, but with Gbinije we know we will actually be better defensively. Again, not s e x y, but important. In this game Gbinije continued to show that he does not offer much offensively, and he showed (for the first time) that he cannot handle playing point against a press. Right now Gbinije has the inside track on the back up point guard role, but if he can't cut it against pressure, he might be passed. The more interesting battle to me is if Gbinije can hold onto the back up shooting guard role, or phrased another way, can we afford to have a poor offensive player get quality minutes at shooting guard?

Patterson - As I said earlier, he played well. Patterson could not hit a shot in Canada, but he will be a good shooter before he leaves Syracuse, I am reasonably confident about that. Hitting shots is great, but the thing that stood out to me is that when Gbinije fell apart against the press, the ball was put in Patterson's hands, and he came through. Breaking the press with ease on two consecutive trips, and finding open teammates for dunks each time. Defensively Patterson has real presence. He needs to learn what he can and can't get away with, but once he does I think he will be even better than Gbinije defensively, which should make things interesting. Patterson isn't going to play this year unless he can learn the zone quickly and add some consistency to his game. I think this is very possible. Pay attention to his decision making (especially defensively), when he stops looking like a freshmen he might start seeing the court a lot.

Johnson - In this game Johnson didn't make any shots, but throughout the course of his career making shots is not going to be one of Johnson's problems so you can forget this one time bad shooting game. Johnson's problem right now is he does not have a definitive position. He won't play any meaningful forward minutes as a freshman. Can he handle playing defense at the top of the key? If he can, there are shooting guard minutes to be had. With Johnson its the defense that matters most.

Roberson - Like Johnson he missed a lot of shots and struggled defensively, but he also showed that he has some major skills. Keep in mind that Roberson is well behind the rest of the team in practice reps. There is only one thing he needs to become a contributor, and that's time. At some point I think Roberson will eclipse Christmas and Coleman for the third forward minutes.

Christmas - In this game he had large stretches where he was pretty much invisible. This is a problem that has plagued him his whole career and I am not sure that at this point it can be fixed. Keita will get most of the center minutes. Either Christmas or Coleman will be his backup. I think Christmas has the inside track but this is anybodies race. The best we can hope for with Christmas is inconstancy throughout the year, with some good play sprinkled in when it matters most.

Coleman - Rebounded like a monster in this game, but did not look particularly good on offense (which is a problem because defense is not his strength). My guess is whoever loses out on the B team center role also loses whatever forward minutes there might be to Roberson. Both Christmas and Coleman will be given every opportunity to succeed, and hopefully they both make strides in the right direction because we are going to need them both next year.
Roberson only missed 6 practices.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2
 
I hope Ennis is taking his vitamins every day because he is going to have to play 37/38 minutes a game in meaningful games against good teams. When he goes out bad things will happen.
 
The lesson I learned from this game . . . there is a glaring performance gap between our A team players and our B team players.

In case you are wondering, the A team is:

Ennis
Cooney
Fair
Grant
Keita

This is going to be our A team all year long and there is only one thing you need to know about them - they are ready to go. In my opinion they are ahead of the curve and playing better than most teams do at this point in the season. This game was not for them, so I'm not going to dwell on any of their performances. As a whole the A team shot close to 60% from the floor (and from 3).

Now lets take a look at our B team.

Gbinije (zero meaningful game experience - little total experience)
Patterson (zero experience)
Johnson (zero experience)
Roberson (zero experience)
Christmas (little meaningful experience)
Coleman (zero meaningful experience - little total experience)

Right now none of the B team players look like they belong on the same court as the A team players, but that should not be too much of a surprise given their experience levels. Out of these players only Patterson played well - his stat line - 11 points (in 15 minutes) 2 assists, 2 turnovers.

What I want to do is break down the struggles each of these guys are having and how I see them contributing down the line.

Gbinije - The cliff notes on Gbinije are: good on D, bad on O. In my opinion he has the lowest ceiling of anybody on the team. This wont make him a fan favorite, but it also does not preclude him from being an important cog. Everybody is wondering what our team will look like offensively with Ennis on the bench, but with Gbinije we know we will actually be better defensively. Again, not s e x y, but important. In this game Gbinije continued to show that he does not offer much offensively, and he showed (for the first time) that he cannot handle playing point against a press. Right now Gbinije has the inside track on the back up point guard role, but if he can't cut it against pressure, he might be passed. The more interesting battle to me is if Gbinije can hold onto the back up shooting guard role, or phrased another way, can we afford to have a poor offensive player get quality minutes at shooting guard?

Patterson - As I said earlier, he played well. Patterson could not hit a shot in Canada, but he will be a good shooter before he leaves Syracuse, I am reasonably confident about that. Hitting shots is great, but the thing that stood out to me is that when Gbinije fell apart against the press, the ball was put in Patterson's hands, and he came through. Breaking the press with ease on two consecutive trips, and finding open teammates for dunks each time. Defensively Patterson has real presence. He needs to learn what he can and can't get away with, but once he does I think he will be even better than Gbinije defensively, which should make things interesting. Patterson isn't going to play this year unless he can learn the zone quickly and add some consistency to his game. I think this is very possible. Pay attention to his decision making (especially defensively), when he stops looking like a freshmen he might start seeing the court a lot.

Johnson - In this game Johnson didn't make any shots, but throughout the course of his career making shots is not going to be one of Johnson's problems so you can forget this one time bad shooting game. Johnson's problem right now is he does not have a definitive position. He won't play any meaningful forward minutes as a freshman. Can he handle playing defense at the top of the key? If he can, there are shooting guard minutes to be had. With Johnson its the defense that matters most.

Roberson - Like Johnson he missed a lot of shots and struggled defensively, but he also showed that he has some major skills. Keep in mind that Roberson is well behind the rest of the team in practice reps. There is only one thing he needs to become a contributor, and that's time. At some point I think Roberson will eclipse Christmas and Coleman for the third forward minutes.

Christmas - In this game he had large stretches where he was pretty much invisible. This is a problem that has plagued him his whole career and I am not sure that at this point it can be fixed. Keita will get most of the center minutes. Either Christmas or Coleman will be his backup. I think Christmas has the inside track but this is anybodies race. The best we can hope for with Christmas is inconstancy throughout the year, with some good play sprinkled in when it matters most.

Coleman - Rebounded like a monster in this game, but did not look particularly good on offense (which is a problem because defense is not his strength). My guess is whoever loses out on the B team center role also loses whatever forward minutes there might be to Roberson. Both Christmas and Coleman will be given every opportunity to succeed, and hopefully they both make strides in the right direction because we are going to need them both next year.

Well, that kills my dream for this year of a "Starting Seven" (or Eight) like the '09-'10 team)! Great analysis.-VBOF
 
C
Well, that kills my dream for this year of a "Starting Seven" (or Eight) like the '09-'10 team)! Great analysis.-VBOF
I wouldn't give up on our dream. You have the starting 5 listed above, then add in Coleman and Rak. I disagree with the OP, both of those two have helpful, significant experience. Rak was playing in the NCAAs, and Coleman is the offensive post hope. I see both getting good minutes and if things go according to plan it will push BMK into the 3rd center role by the end of the year.

The 7 above don't include a 3rd guard. The competition is on for that spot and there are minutes available. The minutes should be, at a minimum, equal to Cooney's minutes from last year. Because we have to believe that one of the candidates should be better than what Cooney gave us last year. Probably won't be decided until the conference schedule is about to begin. This makes 8.

Then I think there will be at least developmental minutes to Roberson as really the 3rd forward (even though Rak starts there). Roberson should get at least MCW frosh type developmental minutes but hopefully more in line with Grant type frosh minutes.
 
The lesson I learned from this game . . . there is a glaring performance gap between our A team players and our B team players.

In case you are wondering, the A team is:

Ennis
Cooney
Fair
Grant
Keita

This is going to be our A team all year long and there is only one thing you need to know about them - they are ready to go. In my opinion they are ahead of the curve and playing better than most teams do at this point in the season. This game was not for them, so I'm not going to dwell on any of their performances. As a whole the A team shot close to 60% from the floor (and from 3).
I hope not. I hope BMK is eventually replaced with the duo of Rak and DC2. They have higher upside.

And while it is looking like we are going to have to live with Cooney as the main 2, there is hope that competition may come from one of the developing newcomers.
 
I hope not. I hope BMK is eventually replaced with the duo of Rak and DC2. They have higher upside.

And while it is looking like we are going to have to live with Cooney as the main 2, there is hope that competition may come from one of the developing newcomers.
"Have to live with Cooney as the main 2"???
What do you see as the problem? At this point he is clearly the choice and I don't even think it's close for anyone else.
 
I hope not. I hope BMK is eventually replaced with the duo of Rak and DC2. They have higher upside.

And while it is looking like we are going to have to live with Cooney as the main 2, there is hope that competition may come from one of the developing newcomers.

Yeah the more I see of cooney so far the more I see him as a weapon not just the only guy we can go with.
 
Ttr5

Christmas - In this game he had large stretches where he was pretty much invisible. This is a problem that has plagued him his whole career and I am not sure that at this point it can be fixed. Keita will get most of the center minutes. Either Christmas or Coleman will be his backup. I think Christmas has the inside track but this is anybodies race. The best we can hope for with Christmas is inconstancy throughout the year, with some good play sprinkled in when it matters most.
.

Yeah I am in the camp that disagrees about christmas as well, I think he is ahead of Dajuan and Keita. Keita brings more defensively but Christmas has a higher ceiling offensively and still plays strong defense.

imo hes our best big. He was maybe our most mobile player in canada on top of it. He was second in team net points by a stretch in canda, and played nearly all his minutes out of the mid post doubling Dajuan and Keitas net points even with Dajuan's 21 point game.

I think in this game in general we were trying to get roberson, BJ and Grant more minutes and Rak found himself in the low post even at pf early on.

I do disagree with hop keeping him in the low post on offense though especially at PF, I know hes tall and can jump the highest with alittle more strength and hands then Keita, but its not where his potential is, hes not 7'0-7'1, and showed a great motor and a real real good dribble for a big in canada.
I am not one to disagree, but I see to much motor and potential and post moves in Rak, and hes a Jr and deserved some greenlight to play to his potential now against easier competition especially. He already knows how to score in the low post your not teaching him anything new early on.

He just needs to knock down those shots that he can get from the midpost. He has more moves, dribble and beef to get a shot up in the lane then Warrick did, and Warrick shot alot of midrange jumpers.
 
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"Have to live with Cooney as the main 2"???
What do you see as the problem? At this point he is clearly the choice and I don't even think it's close for anyone else.
The main problem I see with Cooney as the 2g is scoring. An earlier thread put his over/under at 8 ppg. That's a problem.

A related concern is his 3 pt %, it is difficult to think he will improve to over 32% given what he did last year. That lack of a threat may allow for easier doubling of CJ.

So, while Cooney may be the clear choice at this time, I don't view that as a good thing,
 
Yeah I am in the camp that disagrees about christmas as well, I think he is ahead of Dajuan and Keita. Keita brings more defensively but Christmas has a higher ceiling offensively and still plays better defense.

imo hes our best big. He was maybe our most mobile player in canada on top of it. He was second in team net points by a stretch in canda, and played nearly all his minutes out of the mid post doubling Dajuan and Keitas net points even with Dajuan's 21 point game.

I think in this game in general we were trying to get roberson, BJ and Grant more minutes and Rak found himself in the low post even at pf early on.

I do disagree with hop keeping him in the low post on offense though especially at PF, I know hes tall and can jump the highest with alittle more strength and hands then Keita, but its not where his potential is, hes not 7'0-7'1, and showed a great motor and a real real good dribble for a big in canada.
I am not one to disagree, but I see to much motor and potential and post moves in Rak, and hes a Jr and deserved some greenlight to play to his potential now against easier competition especially.

He just needs to knock down those shots that he can get from the midpost. He has more moves, dribble and beef to get a shot up in the lane then Warrick did, and Warrick shot alot of midrange jumpers.

I don't disagree with your assesment of Rak and surely he has shown all the parts of an offensive game, played great defense at times and rebounded great for stretches. The problem IMO is that he simply doesn't play with any sense of urgency except for in short bursts and then its gone. If you aren't going to play with urgency when there are two other guys at your position what can the coach do but try one of them. I keep trhinking Rak will get it and in Canada I surely thought he showed signs but last night in a game he should have dominated as far as rebounding, blocking shots and just going hard at the rim he didn't. Coleman for all his trouble on offense had like 9 rebounds in less time. Rak skill wise and athletically probably is our best big but he has yet to show he can be relied on to really go at it consistently.
 
The main problem I see with Cooney as the 2g is scoring. An earlier thread put his over/under at 8 ppg. That's a problem.

A related concern is his 3 pt %, it is difficult to think he will improve to over 32% given what he did last year. That lack of a threat may allow for easier doubling of CJ.

So, while Cooney may be the clear choice at this time, I don't view that as a good thing,
I don't think Cooney will have a problem getting to 8pts a game. That's 2 3's and 2 pts somewhere else per game.
 
The main problem I see with Cooney as the 2g is scoring. An earlier thread put his over/under at 8 ppg. That's a problem.

A related concern is his 3 pt %, it is difficult to think he will improve to over 32% given what he did last year. That lack of a threat may allow for easier doubling of CJ.

So, while Cooney may be the clear choice at this time, I don't view that as a good thing,

Cooney will shoot 40% plus! He was just lacking belief, he has it now and there is no turning back. Gotta believe with him.
 
The lesson I learned from this game . . . there is a glaring performance gap between our A team players and our B team players.

Coleman - Rebounded like a monster in this game, but did not look particularly good on offense (which is a problem because defense is not his strength). My guess is whoever loses out on the B team center role also loses whatever forward minutes there might be to Roberson. Both Christmas and Coleman will be given every opportunity to succeed, and hopefully they both make strides in the right direction because we are going to need them both next year.

Coleman's go to move is to lower his should and charge. I find it hard to believe this is the same kid who was so effective in HS. How did he score all those points? They do call charges in HS, too.
 
"Have to live with Cooney as the main 2"???
What do you see as the problem? At this point he is clearly the choice and I don't even think it's close for anyone else.
I'm with you. Clearly the choice and not a matter of "living with him" anymore. He's been our best shooter since August and will be one of the main scoring options. Let me also add that I have to hand it to you, realorange. You've had more belief in Cooney than most and nearly all of us, including me. I'm really glad that you were right. Cooney to me is more important than any guard except Ennis and we will need him to light it up. Not to mention, he has been the best defensive guard this pre-season. He's got his hands on many passes and has covered the most ground at the top of the zone.
 
I'm with you. Clearly the choice and not a matter of "living with him" anymore. He's been our best shooter since August and will be one of the main scoring options. Let me also add that I have to hand it to you, realorange. You've had more belief in Cooney than most and nearly all of us, including me. I'm really glad that you were right. Cooney to me is more important than any guard except Ennis and we will need him to light it up. Not to mention, he has been the best defensive guard this pre-season. He's got his hands on many passes and has covered the most ground at the top of the zone.

Agreed especially about Realorange and his Cooney belief. I am fully on board and always was I just worried it may not happen for Cooney until he was a Junior or Senior.
 
I disagree with a few points.

Gbinije- I don't think he has a lower ceiling than most the guys on this team. He is essentially a redshirt freshman and I like the potential that's there. He's really tall for a college SG and the perfect size for a pro SG. If he can find consistency with his jumper, the rest of his game will open up. I haven't liked his performances so far, but he has plenty potential.

Johnson- I like that we will have another tall, athletic shooter for the next 3-4 years. I like his game a lot but he will not be competing for SG minutes once we get to the serious games. Between Cooney and Gbinije, there is no room for another SG. It will be a battle between him and Roberson this season for about 4-7 mpg at a forward spot.

Patterson- I really don't see him getting many minutes unless we have injuries or foul trouble. Like I said, Cooney and Gbinije are the leaders at SG and he just doesn't have the skillset of a PG. His handle is shakier than I expected and he has a bad pass for every good pass. I'm sure the game will slow down for him but I just don't think this is his year.
 
I disagree with a few points.

Gbinije- I don't think he has a lower ceiling than most the guys on this team. He is essentially a redshirt freshman and I like the potential that's there. He's really tall for a college SG and the perfect size for a pro SG. If he can find consistency with his jumper, the rest of his game will open up. I haven't liked his performances so far, but he has plenty potential.

Johnson- I like that we will have another tall, athletic shooter for the next 3-4 years. I like his game a lot but he will not be competing for SG minutes once we get to the serious games. Between Cooney and Gbinije, there is no room for another SG. It will be a battle between him and Roberson this season for about 4-7 mpg at a forward spot.

Patterson- I really don't see him getting many minutes unless we have injuries or foul trouble. Like I said, Cooney and Gbinije are the leaders at SG and he just doesn't have the skillset of a PG. His handle is shakier than I expected and he has a bad pass for every good pass. I'm sure the game will slow down for him but I just don't think this is his year.

All three of these are connected. If MikeG cannot run the backup PG spot some one else will be tried, m0re than likely a combination of Cooney and Patterson together. If MikeG doesn't shoot it well and Cooney has to play when Ennis rests then BJ or Buss are the logical choices to spell Cooney untill Ennis sits.

Another point to think on is that JB had BJ in first as a 2G before Buss got off the bench. IMO it was by plan to see BJ at the 2 for a bit. They did slide him back to the 3 once Buss came in but he is getting a look there in the 1st exhibition before he plays the 3.

You may be right and MikeG locks up the backup PG and 2G spots as we move through the early season but he doesn't have it locked up yet from what I have seen.
 
The main problem I see with Cooney as the 2g is scoring. An earlier thread put his over/under at 8 ppg. That's a problem.

A related concern is his 3 pt %, it is difficult to think he will improve to over 32% given what he did last year. That lack of a threat may allow for easier doubling of CJ.

So, while Cooney may be the clear choice at this time, I don't view that as a good thing,


What have you seen of cooney that doesn't show he is ready to contribute 8-12 pts a game? I think it makes little sense to revert back to last year given his clear improvements so far.
 
What have you seen of cooney that doesn't show he is ready to contribute 8-12 pts a game? I think it makes little sense to revert back to last year given his clear improvements so far.

Holy Fathers or whoever they were payed close attanetion to Cooney in there zone and shaded his way. Think about his 4 threes. 2 were sideline shots where he inbounded from the baseline to a player who screned the wing on that side of the zone and tossed it back to him. One was off a late trandsition drive from Ennis specifically to set Cooney up. The 4th was after an offensive rebound I believe. Point being we are looking to get Trevor shots from 3 and the defense is trying to stop that. Is a shooter confident? I think those two baseline inbounds plays show how confident Cooney is right now. HE also already has the offense off the pump fake but that may take some tome for him to figure out what and when to use it. Cooney has me pretty excited.
 

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