Class of 2020 F Jyare Davis (DE) TRANSFERRING TO SYRACUSE (4/15/24)

[007]

First, Lampkin is Brown's replacement. Not Davis. Davis is just an add. As for the pt guard. Judah is a talented guy. But he didn't pass and he couldn't shoot. Leffew will do both. It's about whether the team will be better next year. We are bigger all over the court. Lampkin will give us more than Brown. Freeman will give us a lot more than Taylor. Honestly, we are a lot better. How many more wins...hard to say. But we won't be getting blown off the floor like we did this year.

Yup. The roster, with Lampkin, Leffew, Davis (I expect at least 1 more portal), Freeman and Moore addresses deficiencies in skill, experience, and toughness. There was also addition by subtraction in chemistry and buy in. The team will be better constructed which should translate to more success.

I think the tendency to judge individual player additions in a vacuum misses the much more important aspect as to how the pieces interact and impact the whole. Team construction has to be done with vision.

 

[djcon57]

First, Lampkin is Brown's replacement. Not Davis. Davis is just an add. As for the pt guard. Judah is a talented guy. But he didn't pass and he couldn't shoot. Leffew will do both. It's about whether the team will be better next year. We are bigger all over the court. Lampkin will give us more than Brown. Freeman will give us a lot more than Taylor. Honestly, we are a lot better. How many more wins...hard to say. But we won't be getting blown off the floor like we did this year.

Saying Lampkin will give us more than Brown is a crazy take. Totally ignoring defense

 

[OttoinGrotto]

First, Lampkin is Brown's replacement. Not Davis. Davis is just an add. As for the pt guard. Judah is a talented guy. But he didn't pass and he couldn't shoot. Leffew will do both. It's about whether the team will be better next year. We are bigger all over the court. Lampkin will give us more than Brown. Freeman will give us a lot more than Taylor. Honestly, we are a lot better. How many more wins...hard to say. But we won't be getting blown off the floor like we did this year.

I think I agree with this.

Freeman > Taylor to an enormous degree.

Rotation of Lampkin/McCleod/Patterson for 40 minutes at center > Brown/Carey/Hima for 40 minutes.

Leffew isn't better than Judah but the things he does seem to fit better.

Bell and Starling will improve their games at least a little bit. Same for Cuffe.

Westry's health is a big wildcard, but he projects as a solid bench piece at minimum if he is. Likely contributes on the floor in similar ways to Copeland (not necessarily statistically, I mean more in terms of what he does), so that could be a wash. Assuming we nab Davis at the minimum he'll be more reliable than Benny was. You can see an 8-9 man rotation set up, and I didn't even mention Moore or potential other portal adds.

Sure the defense probably sucks, but YOLO.

 

[Cusefan0307]

First, Lampkin is Brown's replacement. Not Davis. Davis is just an add. As for the pt guard. Judah is a talented guy. But he didn't pass and he couldn't shoot. Leffew will do both. It's about whether the team will be better next year. We are bigger all over the court. Lampkin will give us more than Brown. Freeman will give us a lot more than Taylor. Honestly, we are a lot better. How many more wins...hard to say. But we won't be getting blown off the floor like we did this year.

Lampkin being better than Brown is not a given and not something I am willing to say. The rest is fair and I think we are better if we can defend, but that's a big IF. I suspect the new coach is being hired to help Red with that.

 

[Marsh01]

First, Lampkin is Brown's replacement. Not Davis. Davis is just an add. As for the pt guard. Judah is a talented guy. But he didn't pass and he couldn't shoot. Leffew will do both. It's about whether the team will be better next year. We are bigger all over the court. Lampkin will give us more than Brown. Freeman will give us a lot more than Taylor. Honestly, we are a lot better. How many more wins...hard to say. But we won't be getting blown off the floor like we did this year.

No more mental midgets next season. Probably the biggest takeaway from this entire thing. And im being kind with the wording

 

[RF2044]

No more mental midgets next season. Probably the biggest takeaway from this entire thing. And im being kind with the wording

Right?

We had one guy who was looney tunes, and had to be dismissed mid-season.

And we had two others [3 actually, 1 of whom hasn't portaled out] who -- while not being bad kids in the eyes of the coaching staff -- were divisive in the locker room, didn't listen to the coach's instructions on the court, and were passive aggressive about undermining his authority. Hint: Maliq Brown wasn't one of the three.

Addition by subtraction, for sure.

 

[baggerbob]

Call me crazy but I think Bell and Starling will probably be the leading scorers on next year’s team. I don’t think Bell will be in the 7-10ppg range. I would think 15+. When he was scoring, we won games.

If Bell doesn't play defense and rebound next year his minutes will go down.

 

[Mr. M]

Saying Lampkin will give us more than Brown is a crazy take. Totally ignoring defense

they're totally different guys from defense perspective, yeah Malik gets steals and guards perimeter and switches well, awesome & unique skillset there.. but he also gets backed down and eaten alive close to the basket at times, see UNC/Clemson. that shouldn't happen with Lampkin

 

[Marsh01]

Right?

We had one guy who was looney tunes, and had to be dismissed mid-season.

And we had two others [3 actually, 1 of whom hasn't portaled out] who -- while not being bad kids in the eyes of the coaching staff -- were divisive in the locker room, didn't listen to the coach's instructions on the court, and were passive aggressive about undermining his authority.

Addition by subtraction, for sure.

I dont get how some people cant see this. Maybe its just me

 

[djcon57]

they're totally different guys from defense perspective, yeah Malik gets steals and guards perimeter and switches well, awesome & unique skillset there.. but he also gets backed down and eaten alive close to the basket at times, see UNC/Clemson. that shouldn't happen with Lampkin

I’ve seen Lampkin get scored on in the post. He doesn’t block shots at all. He’s a big dude but defense is not his game. Should help rebounding tho. I’m not down on him. Just think it’s underselling Maliq

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I dont get how some people cant see this. Maybe its just me

It's just insecurity.

Boeheim spoiled us for a long time. And then, he, uh... didn't. And so fans are aware now that success, especially that we got used to, can't be assumed.

So they're like "the portal is the answer!" and for some reason they think we'll get all the best guys from the portal, because that's exactly how our high school classes full up with burger boys works.

We're not going to roll out a perfect team next season. That's never been on the table. Flipping the whole roster wouldn't have accomplished that either.

What we need to do is take the long view. Red has to build the program back. Individual season success can happen more quickly thanks to the portal, but the 2025 class will really make or break Red. That needs to be a good one. And yes, I am saying we're going to rely on some freshmen for a little bit. Yeah. That's going to happen.

 

[Marsh01]

It's just insecurity.

Boeheim spoiled us for a long time. And then, he, uh... didn't. And so fans are aware now that success, especially that we got used to, can't be assumed.

So they're like "the portal is the answer!" and for some reason they think we'll get all the best guys from the portal, because that's exactly how our high school classes full up with burger boys works.

We're not going to roll out a perfect team next season. That's never been on the table. Flipping the whole roster wouldn't have accomplished that either.

What we need to do is take the long view. Red has to build the program back. Individual season success can happen more quickly thanks to the portal, but the 2025 class will really make or break Red. That needs to be a good one. And yes, I am saying we're going to rely on some freshmen for a little bit. Yeah. That's going to happen.

Exactly. I dont know what people expected. To bring in multiple 5 star portal kids? I mean give me a break. I expect us to be relatively competitive next season and then in 2025 really make a giant leap.

To assume anything else is ridiculous. And all this Red is a failure, hes got one more year or hes out is pure garbage. Guy won 20 games with an island of misfit mental rejects this season.

 

[Niastri]

JJ being able to push pace and score in transition will be a benefit too. He didn’t get to do that enough this year. We didn’t leverage his speed because Judah refused to push it a lot.

I'm actually a little worried that our transition will suffer because Lampkin is in for Brown. Brown was able to beat most centers and power forwards up and down the court.

Lampkin sometimes doesn't make it into the screen when "playing defense" in transition.

He's nimble, and has good post moves, but he's very slow.

If we have a good transition game, Lampkin won't be the star of that show.

That said, Freeman, Bell and Starling are all athletic, and Leffew is supposed to be a good passer, so we should be ok.

I'll be excited to see fewer 1 on 4 fast breaks next season.

 

[Melancer46]

I'm actually a little worried that our transition will suffer because Lampkin is in for Brown. Brown was able to beat most centers and power forwards up and down the court.

Lampkin sometimes doesn't make it into the screen when "playing defense" in transition.

He's nimble, and has good post moves, but he's very slow.

If we have a good transition game, Lampkin won't be the star of that show.

That said, Freeman, Bell and Starling are all athletic, and Leffew is supposed to be a good passer, so we should be ok.

I'll be excited to see fewer 1 on 4 fast breaks next season.

I think the hope is Lampkin can get the rebound and make the outlet pass. No doubt he won't be winning many foot races but if our C is the first guy down the floor we've probably got other issues going on lol.

Having said that, I have many fond memories of Fab Melo out running centers down the floor for easy buckets.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Saying Lampkin will give us more than Brown is a crazy take. Totally ignoring defense

Lampkin is way better than Brown at post scoring and rebounding. Like 10x better and much bigger.

It’s a shame we couldn’t retain Brown to be in the role he had early when he’d come off the bench for McLeod and slap the ball away nonstop and create all those turnovers but that wasn’t gonna happen when he was a productive 35 mins per night starting center.

I’m not sure the team is very good with Malik being a 30+ min per night center. He did some things well and was serviceable. Don’t love him as the 4.

We’ll miss him but we get a big size upgrade thinking that means we’ll be easier to score inside on is stupid.

 

[im4cuse]

First, Lampkin is Brown's replacement. Not Davis. Davis is just an add. As for the pt guard. Judah is a talented guy. But he didn't pass and he couldn't shoot. Leffew will do both. It's about whether the team will be better next year. We are bigger all over the court. Lampkin will give us more than Brown. Freeman will give us a lot more than Taylor. Honestly, we are a lot better. How many more wins...hard to say. But we won't be getting blown off the floor like we did this year.

“But we won't be getting blown off the floor like we did this year.”

 

[djcon57]

Lampkin is way better than Brown at post scoring and rebounding. Like 10x better and much bigger.

It’s a shame we couldn’t retain Brown to be in the role he had early when he’d come off the bench for McLeod and slap the ball away nonstop and create all those turnovers but that wasn’t gonna happen when he was a productive 35 mins per night starting center.

I’m not sure the team is very good with Malik being a 30+ min per night center. He did some things well and was serviceable. Don’t love him as the 4.

We’ll miss him but we get a big size upgrade thinking that means we’ll be easier to score inside on is stupid.

I never said we would be easier to score inside on. Did you see what UConn did to Edey?

 

[CardiacCuse]

I think the tendency to judge individual player additions in a vacuum misses the much more important aspect as to how the pieces interact and impact the whole. Team construction has to be done with vision.

totally and I;d take it a step further...

THIS AINT 1 on 1! This aint AND1!!

Judah ...would be great in that sport...if it existed.

this game of "who is better than who" people play by comparing individual stats and ignoring the team aspect of the sport...makes me wonder how closely some people even watch the games.

giving up on defense, lackadaisical rottations, poor decisoons, inablity to shoot 3s...they rarely show up in box scores...but they definitely show up in win-loss records

not trying to diss judah...but player eval needs t be more nuanced than looking at scoring averages.

 

[HyattsCuse]

Exactly. I dont know what people expected. To bring in multiple 5 star portal kids? I mean give me a break. I expect us to be relatively competitive next season and then in 2025 really make a giant leap.

It's hard for me to think like that anymore. Pre-portal/free transfer era, we'd have an idea of what the team will look like in two years and be able to forecast a bit, but now, I am looking at what the 2024 roster is looking like and can't see anyone other than, hopefully, Moore, definitively being on the 2025 team.

I'd be interested to know how you think we can make a giant leap without knowing the players. I'm trying to stay optimistic!

 

[RF2044]

Yup. The roster, with Lampkin, Leffew, Davis (I expect at least 1 more portal), Freeman and Moore addresses deficiencies in skill, experience, and toughness. There was also addition by subtraction in chemistry and buy in. The team will be better constructed which should translate to more success.

I think the tendency to judge individual player additions in a vacuum misses the much more important aspect as to how the pieces interact and impact the whole. Team construction has to be done with vision.

Look no further than the 2010 squad, and the big shoes that several principal players had to replace from the previous year [Flynn, Harris, Devo].

Scoop / Triche weren't objectively "better" than Flynn. He was a high NBA draft pick, they were good college players.

Rautins wasn't objectively "better" than Devendorf.

But collectively, the whole ended up being better than the sum of the individual parts. That 2010 squad had perfect chemistry, and highly complimentary skill sets that enabled that team to achieve greatness... and a #1 ranking.

The lesson? This isn't an all-star game, where the goal is to slap together the five most individually talented players. The goal is to identify system fits, and players who have the right balance of complimentary skill sets.

If only Arinze hadn't gotten hurt...

 

[Marsh01]

It's hard for me to optimistically think like that anymore. Pre-portal/free transfer era, we'd have an idea of what the team will look like in two years and be able to forecast a bit, but now, I am looking at what the 2024 roster is looking like and can't see anyone other than, hopefully, Moore, definitively being on the 2025 team.

I'd be interested to know how you think we can make a giant leap without knowing the players. I'm trying to stay optimistic!

Follow the 2025 recruiting page and look at who we are going after and who we have offered. Night and day from the past decade.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I dont get how some people cant see this. Maybe its just me

because no official outlets confirm that narrative...

if well-known people or official channels were confriming this stuff, the general narrative would be much more critical

even most hardcore fans dont really know the real details

 

[007]

Look no further than the 2010 squad, and the principal players that several key components replaced from the previous year [Flynn, Harris, Devo].

Scoop / Triche weren't objectively "better" than Flynn. He was a high NBA draft pick, they were good college players.

Rautins wasn't objectively "better" than Devendorf.

But collectively, the whole ended up being better than the sum of the individual parts. That 2010 squad had perfect chemistry, and highly complimentary skill sets that enabled that team to achieve greatness... and a #1 ranking.

The lesson? This isn't an all-star game, where the goal is to slap together the five most individually talented players. The goal is to identify system fits, and players who have the right balance of complimentary skill sets.

If only Arinze hadn't gotten hurt...

Well said RF and great analogy to the 2010 team.

 

[Marsh01]

Look no further than the 2010 squad, and the principal players that several key components replaced from the previous year [Flynn, Harris, Devo].

Scoop / Triche weren't objectively "better" than Flynn. He was a high NBA draft pick, they were good college players.

Rautins wasn't objectively "better" than Devendorf.

But collectively, the whole ended up being better than the sum of the individual parts. That 2010 squad had perfect chemistry, and highly complimentary skill sets that enabled that team to achieve greatness... and a #1 ranking.

The lesson? This isn't an all-star game, where the goal is to slap together the five most individually talented players. The goal is to identify system fits, and players who have the right balance of complimentary skill sets.

If only Arinze hadn't gotten hurt...

The ending of this season bothered me more than any season aside from 1987. I didnt sleep for months

 

[Marsh01]

because no official outlets confirm that narrative...

if well-known people or official channels were confriming this stuff, the general narrative would be much more critical

even most hardcore fans dont really know the real details

Probably best it never comes out.