Face Off struggles and adjustments by staff and players | Syracusefan.com

Face Off struggles and adjustments by staff and players

ohmilax34

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I watched the Albany game, but I haven't seen the Duke or Notre Dame games. I don't get to (or choose to) watch games live, but I watch them when they show up on youtube a day or so later. However, I don't fully watch the games SU loses.

I know the story of the Duke game. Face off struggles, efficient offense, defense tightening up, but the team coming up short in the end. I know the story of the Notre Dame game. Face off struggles, huge possession disadvantage that can't be overcome. I don't have a good sense of how the coaches approached face offs during those games. I did see that Savage took some vs. ND and had the best % of any of the SU fogos.

What I saw vs. Albany looked like Phaup taking the draws at the beginning of the game, and winning the majority of them. Then, in the middle of the game, Varello took some and did well, then Savage took some and did pretty well. Then in the second half, Phaup came back in to take some draws. This seemed like a new strategy by the coaches, and I liked it when I saw it. I wonder if Phaup is spending that time, when Varello and Savage are taking the draws, reviewing film of the draws he took and what the Albany fogo and wing guys were doing. This seems smart in many ways. It keeps Phaup fresh, it gives other guys some reps to help in the future and it's important to win draws at the end of games, so being able to make adjustments to help win those draws is critical.

I don't know if this is what's happening, but I hope it is. My biggest fear for this team is that they lose in the playoffs because of a big possession disadvantage. I think it's critical that they are competitive on face offs with the very best teams. The UNC will be interesting. I think they're pretty good on face offs, and they ride very hard to create more of a possession disadvantage.
 
I watched the Albany game, but I haven't seen the Duke or Notre Dame games. I don't get to (or choose to) watch games live, but I watch them when they show up on youtube a day or so later. However, I don't fully watch the games SU loses.

I know the story of the Duke game. Face off struggles, efficient offense, defense tightening up, but the team coming up short in the end. I know the story of the Notre Dame game. Face off struggles, huge possession disadvantage that can't be overcome. I don't have a good sense of how the coaches approached face offs during those games. I did see that Savage took some vs. ND and had the best % of any of the SU fogos.

What I saw vs. Albany looked like Phaup taking the draws at the beginning of the game, and winning the majority of them. Then, in the middle of the game, Varello took some and did well, then Savage took some and did pretty well. Then in the second half, Phaup came back in to take some draws. This seemed like a new strategy by the coaches, and I liked it when I saw it. I wonder if Phaup is spending that time, when Varello and Savage are taking the draws, reviewing film of the draws he took and what the Albany fogo and wing guys were doing. This seems smart in many ways. It keeps Phaup fresh, it gives other guys some reps to help in the future and it's important to win draws at the end of games, so being able to make adjustments to help win those draws is critical.

I don't know if this is what's happening, but I hope it is. My biggest fear for this team is that they lose in the playoffs because of a big possession disadvantage. I think it's critical that they are competitive on face offs with the very best teams. The UNC will be interesting. I think they're pretty good on face offs, and they ride very hard to create more of a possession disadvantage.
I think the reason for the initial switch to Varello was that Phaup (for the third time) got a second violation with way too much time remaining in the half. He has really killed us with those. I think it is possible to win a game while not winning that many faceoffs, but what you can't have is a massive streak of faceoff losses that give the D no time to recover, which happened against both Duke and ND. At least I don't believe any of Phaups violations were before the whistle against Albany. Those are by far the most frustrating!

Also as an aside, would definitely recommend at least watching the comeback Cuse had against Duke. May raise your confidence levels for this team/their potential ceiling. Wish I could unsee the ND game.
 
I think the reason for the initial switch to Varello was that Phaup (for the third time) got a second violation with way too much time remaining in the half. He has really killed us with those. I think it is possible to win a game while not winning that many faceoffs, but what you can't have is a massive streak of faceoff losses that give the D no time to recover, which happened against both Duke and ND. At least I don't believe any of Phaups violations were before the whistle against Albany. Those are by far the most frustrating!

Also as an aside, would definitely recommend at least watching the comeback Cuse had against Duke. May raise your confidence levels for this team/their potential ceiling. Wish I could unsee the ND game.
LOL, I actually did watch most of the comeback in the Duke game. This offense can really hum when it's clicking. The Albany game was interesting in that SU had long possessions, some guys seemed to not get into the flow of the offense, but it was effective.

I didn't pick up the fact that Phaup had some violations. Thanks!
 
I don't think Phaup is watching film on the sidelines - is that allowed for a player to do? I know Tillman at Maryland has the tablet with him but I think he is only coach I've noticed who uses it. Not sure how thats legal (I am not sure what he does with it though, maybe Zach80 could enlighten us?) or why, since it is legal, other coaches don't use it as well. Phaup may be able to watch the face-off as a neutral observer and pick up on things he's missing from the sidelines though. It sounds like all the guys are supportive of each other which is good to see.

I too liked the strategy, seemed to both balance the need for Phaup to get his confidence back and the other guys to get reps. Hard to manage but I think they did a good job. I wish they had started this process earlier in the year, but hindsight is 20/20. The Albany game had a very strange vibe, it almost felt like an exhibition game. I imagine the UNC game will have a very different intensity and pace to it.

Interested to see what they do against UNC. I feel like Phaup will get the start but he'll have a quick hook if he struggles. Varello had a very nice day against Albany which was nice to see, he must be second in line. I guess the question is how fast they move to Savage if Varello also struggles?
 
I don't think Phaup is watching film on the sidelines - is that allowed for a player to do? I know Tillman at Maryland has the tablet with him but I think he is only coach I've noticed who uses it. Not sure how thats legal (I am not sure what he does with it though, maybe Zach80 could enlighten us?) or why, since it is legal, other coaches don't use it as well. Phaup may be able to watch the face-off as a neutral observer and pick up on things he's missing from the sidelines though. It sounds like all the guys are supportive of each other which is good to see.

I too liked the strategy, seemed to both balance the need for Phaup to get his confidence back and the other guys to get reps. Hard to manage but I think they did a good job. I wish they had started this process earlier in the year, but hindsight is 20/20. The Albany game had a very strange vibe, it almost felt like an exhibition game. I imagine the UNC game will have a very different intensity and pace to it.

Interested to see what they do against UNC. I feel like Phaup will get the start but he'll have a quick hook if he struggles. Varello had a very nice day against Albany which was nice to see, he must be second in line. I guess the question is how fast they move to Savage if Varello also struggles?
The Albany game seemed like the first game since UVA that SU really inverted their offensive middies a lot. It seemed the strategy was to have a middie and Rehfuss behind the cage, get the ball to rehfuss and have him look for open players. It worked pretty well. I'd like to see them build on that with a pass from Rehfuss to Hiltz on the lefty wing and let him look for open players too, because he's great at that, he can also shoot, and sometimes he moves the ball on to the top right of the box to a middie who has a lot of room to dodge.

Vs. Albany, SU seemed to have extended possessions, which would be great vs. UNC who like up tempo games.
 
I watched the Albany game, but I haven't seen the Duke or Notre Dame games. I don't get to (or choose to) watch games live, but I watch them when they show up on youtube a day or so later. However, I don't fully watch the games SU loses.

I know the story of the Duke game. Face off struggles, efficient offense, defense tightening up, but the team coming up short in the end. I know the story of the Notre Dame game. Face off struggles, huge possession disadvantage that can't be overcome. I don't have a good sense of how the coaches approached face offs during those games. I did see that Savage took some vs. ND and had the best % of any of the SU fogos.

What I saw vs. Albany looked like Phaup taking the draws at the beginning of the game, and winning the majority of them. Then, in the middle of the game, Varello took some and did well, then Savage took some and did pretty well. Then in the second half, Phaup came back in to take some draws. This seemed like a new strategy by the coaches, and I liked it when I saw it. I wonder if Phaup is spending that time, when Varello and Savage are taking the draws, reviewing film of the draws he took and what the Albany fogo and wing guys were doing. This seems smart in many ways. It keeps Phaup fresh, it gives other guys some reps to help in the future and it's important to win draws at the end of games, so being able to make adjustments to help win those draws is critical.

I don't know if this is what's happening, but I hope it is. My biggest fear for this team is that they lose in the playoffs because of a big possession disadvantage. I think it's critical that they are competitive on face offs with the very best teams. The UNC will be interesting. I think they're pretty good on face offs, and they ride very hard to create more of a possession disadvantage.

UNC will be a very good barometer as to where we are at the X. UNC's FOGO combo isn't bad but they struggled mightily against Duke and UVA, especially in the 4th quarter. If SU struggles again at the X on Sat, were in disastrous trouble. I think Desko's plan was to ride with Phaup but once he got a violation and lost a few he went to Varello who I thought did fairly well. Going to Savage late in the 2nd and in the second half seemed pre-determined and a good idea to get him some draws.

The biggest issue I see is that I don't think the program has a solution yet if Phaup starts to falter again. Varello seems like the #2 guy but he's had his own struggles and out of the three is the slowest and struggles the most after gaining possession. Savage has looked pretty good in limited time but he's still a true frosh who has only played in 2 games. Complicating matters more is that SU has to get itself into the Tourney before they can worry about losing draws in the 1st round. If they don't win one of the next three games they are likely out.

I was encouraged that Phaup went back home on his own to clear his head and get some work in with his faceoff coach who is still an active guy professionally. to me it seems clear from that DO article that the new rules have screwed him up especially in terms of when he starts losing draws and is relying on memory and techniques hes honed over the years that are no longer possible ot use. If SU had a few lesser opponents left I think that would have helped get Savage more up to speed an into a real power share with Phaup. At this point though we are likely to live and die with Phaup, though Desko does have options behind him and seems quicker to pull the trigger then in the past. Saturday will tell me a lot.
 
I don't think Phaup is watching film on the sidelines - is that allowed for a player to do? I know Tillman at Maryland has the tablet with him but I think he is only coach I've noticed who uses it. Not sure how thats legal (I am not sure what he does with it though, maybe Zach80 could enlighten us?) or why, since it is legal, other coaches don't use it as well. Phaup may be able to watch the face-off as a neutral observer and pick up on things he's missing from the sidelines though. It sounds like all the guys are supportive of each other which is good to see.

I too liked the strategy, seemed to both balance the need for Phaup to get his confidence back and the other guys to get reps. Hard to manage but I think they did a good job. I wish they had started this process earlier in the year, but hindsight is 20/20. The Albany game had a very strange vibe, it almost felt like an exhibition game. I imagine the UNC game will have a very different intensity and pace to it.

Interested to see what they do against UNC. I feel like Phaup will get the start but he'll have a quick hook if he struggles. Varello had a very nice day against Albany which was nice to see, he must be second in line. I guess the question is how fast they move to Savage if Varello also struggles?

I think Desko will give Phaup some leash but I don't believe he can do the same with Varello. Varello has really struggled under the new rules as well but has been a bit better since the Duke game when he won a handful of draws. Varello's problem is that much like Phaup this year he can go long stretches where he isn't winning draws a lot and is good for at least 2 violations a game. Now on the other hand Varello does battle back and can win some even after losing 5-6 in a row. If I am Desko I am giving Phaup 2 or 3 draws max before I go to Savage.

I think Savage is the ultimate answer as the #2 guy and as I mentioned previously and you above he really should have been getting draws earlier in the year to get him ready, hard to ask him this far into the year to suddenly take a good share of the draws.

Wing play was better against Albany but I still don't have much faith in the wing play outside of Dearth and even he has been up and down. UNC will be telling, if were not at 50% or at least close to it, that doesn't bode well for UVA and definitely not ND.
 
I think Desko will give Phaup some leash but I don't believe he can do the same with Varello. Varello has really struggled under the new rules as well but has been a bit better since the Duke game when he won a handful of draws. Varello's problem is that much like Phaup this year he can go long stretches where he isn't winning draws a lot and is good for at least 2 violations a game. Now on the other hand Varello does battle back and can win some even after losing 5-6 in a row. If I am Desko I am giving Phaup 2 or 3 draws max before I go to Savage.

I think Savage is the ultimate answer as the #2 guy and as I mentioned previously and you above he really should have been getting draws earlier in the year to get him ready, hard to ask him this far into the year to suddenly take a good share of the draws.

Wing play was better against Albany but I still don't have much faith in the wing play outside of Dearth and even he has been up and down. UNC will be telling, if were not at 50% or at least close to it, that doesn't bode well for UVA and definitely not ND.
I saw Kennedy initiate a lot of contact with his opponent on a face off wing vs. Albany. I will try to see if that's something they're trying to do more often now. In a slower game like the Albany game, Kennedy can play more on face off wings, because our offense had the ball for long stretches and he was probably pretty fresh.
 
The Albany game seemed like the first game since UVA that SU really inverted their offensive middies a lot. It seemed the strategy was to have a middie and Rehfuss behind the cage, get the ball to rehfuss and have him look for open players. It worked pretty well. I'd like to see them build on that with a pass from Rehfuss to Hiltz on the lefty wing and let him look for open players too, because he's great at that, he can also shoot, and sometimes he moves the ball on to the top right of the box to a middie who has a lot of room to dodge.

Vs. Albany, SU seemed to have extended possessions, which would be great vs. UNC who like up tempo games.

Yes, the invert has been really successful this season, though I think they've been saving it for big games this year. I was a bit surprised to see them use it so much against Albany, but they may have been trying to work out some kinks. I think the coaches are planning on using it a lot these next three games, and know there is no sense in trying to keep any of it a secret at this point in the season.

The offense looked unstoppable early in the season when Curry was getting the short stick and he would invert. Defenses have adjusted though and put the long stick on him and a shorty on Dordevic and Trimboli. Dordevic seems to be getting more comfortable behind the cage, it took him a while to get going against Duke. Trimboli does not invert much, but I find it interesting the one time I can think of that he did do it, he scored. Seebold and Cook also look more comfortable behind the cage than they do in front of it, and they gave Buttermore a number of invert runs against Albany. I think this strategy works pretty well since you have two attackmen in Scanlan and Hiltz who dominate the wings, so there is more space behind the goal.
 
Yes, the invert has been really successful this season, though I think they've been saving it for big games this year. I was a bit surprised to see them use it so much against Albany, but they may have been trying to work out some kinks. I think the coaches are planning on using it a lot these next three games, and know there is no sense in trying to keep any of it a secret at this point in the season.

The offense looked unstoppable early in the season when Curry was getting the short stick and he would invert. Defenses have adjusted though and put the long stick on him and a shorty on Dordevic and Trimboli. Dordevic seems to be getting more comfortable behind the cage, it took him a while to get going against Duke. Trimboli does not invert much, but I find it interesting the one time I can think of that he did do it, he scored. Seebold and Cook also look more comfortable behind the cage than they do in front of it, and they gave Buttermore a number of invert runs against Albany. I think this strategy works pretty well since you have two attackmen in Scanlan and Hiltz who dominate the wings, so there is more space behind the goal.
That's a good point about what space Scanlon and Hiltz like to occupy. I thought Hiltz was good against Albany and was a little unlucky not to get another goal and assist. It seemed like the offense didn't flow through him as much as it sometimes has this season. Scanlon beating a shortstick a couple times for goals was also great to see.
 
That's a good point about what space Scanlon and Hiltz like to occupy. I thought Hiltz was good against Albany and was a little unlucky not to get another goal and assist. It seemed like the offense didn't flow through him as much as it sometimes has this season. Scanlon beating a shortstick a couple times for goals was also great to see.
Scanlan is underrated as a dodger, with many in the social media/fan lax world thinking he can't do it at all. Anyone who thinks that probably just watched his bad day UVA game and literally nothing else in his career. He has an unorthodox dodging style which usually leads to him not drawing slides. Often it looks like he is clamped down and then in an instant the ball is in the goal. He has a really deceptive hitch and go move and also shoots the ball off the dodge a beat earlier than the goalie is expecting. I have seen him practically walking with the ball on a dodge and lightly toss it mid-step and beat the goalie with no speed on the ball just because it is a beat earlier than what they expect. Quite a unique player in that regard. He won't break ankles but he will put the ball in the goal. His best asset is probably still his passing, but his dodging is far from weak. Sorry to further derail from the original faceoff topic!
 
Scanlan is underrated as a dodger, with many in the social media/fan lax world thinking he can't do it at all. Anyone who thinks that probably just watched his bad day UVA game and literally nothing else in his career. He has an unorthodox dodging style which usually leads to him not drawing slides. Often it looks like he is clamped down and then in an instant the ball is in the goal. He has a really deceptive hitch and go move and also shoots the ball off the dodge a beat earlier than the goalie is expecting. I have seen him practically walking with the ball on a dodge and lightly toss it mid-step and beat the goalie with no speed on the ball just because it is a beat earlier than what they expect. Quite a unique player in that regard. He won't break ankles but he will put the ball in the goal. His best asset is probably still his passing, but his dodging is far from weak. Sorry to further derail from the original faceoff topic!
Not a problem. Everything is linked together, at least somewhat.
 
Didnt scanlan take faceoffs in the world games against Baptist and Canadian fogo
 
I saw Kennedy initiate a lot of contact with his opponent on a face off wing vs. Albany. I will try to see if that's something they're trying to do more often now. In a slower game like the Albany game, Kennedy can play more on face off wings, because our offense had the ball for long stretches and he was probably pretty fresh.
Contact mostly happens when there are actual scrums which was the case with Albany .Dont want your wing physically tying themselve with another on approach when the ball is being won clean by the opposing fogo because split seconds matter. Addressing another, our wings are the fastest atheletes on team but wings dont just sprint to a faceoff as a quick change of direction is often needed for reasons that I assume are known by most. Our wings are there when battles occur but also must adhere to their responsibilities which perhaps should be loosened agaisnt slower fogos. In scrums, gonna be contact and pushing when maneuvering to position. Albany game showed wings more involved because there were actually scrums at x rather than clear wins or kickbacks to their wings.. In previous game vs ND , our wings won most of the few scrums whether initial or secondarily. Overlooked in that game was Aviles had four ground balls, two on kickbacks , believe Varello and Savage sent one each his way, n two on balls jarred out of ND heads by Kennedy when they were gathering possession. Mentioned those four gb's because no one else has. Aviles has been very good defensively these past two games as well. Every fanbase defaults to a narrative true or not whenever losing faceoffs . Opposing wings will win some scrums but realty is there e have been very few totals by wings on either side but our wings have actually totaled more gb's than opposing on the few scrums near x in those bad faceoff games. One large concern especuially for this game is rushes to cage off clean fogo wins. Depending on direction of break, one wing redirects down towards middle while the other rushes down to alley to cover down while close should comes up. This has not always been timely or totally coordinated . UNC fogos are both very fast and will go straight to goal on any clean wins so our wings will need to be positioned lower which might hinder their involvement in quick battles. In last two meetings of teams in 2019 , Cuse had slight edge 25- 23 but mixed results for both Phaup and Varello in individual games . If one remembers NC used a mid late in 2nd game on faceoffs who changed game . Watch Utube vids by Guerlian explaining all the various fogo methods , position can be intricate with several ways and counters. Phaup had a overriding strength but will have to expand his repertoire. Putting the ball on the ground rather than going for clean wins may become a emphasis agaisnt some . Dont think we have ad here at present and suspect to see all three fogos, tbh hoping for a split.
 
Yes, the invert has been really successful this season, though I think they've been saving it for big games this year. I was a bit surprised to see them use it so much against Albany, but they may have been trying to work out some kinks. I think the coaches are planning on using it a lot these next three games, and know there is no sense in trying to keep any of it a secret at this point in the season.

The offense looked unstoppable early in the season when Curry was getting the short stick and he would invert. Defenses have adjusted though and put the long stick on him and a shorty on Dordevic and Trimboli. Dordevic seems to be getting more comfortable behind the cage, it took him a while to get going against Duke. Trimboli does not invert much, but I find it interesting the one time I can think of that he did do it, he scored. Seebold and Cook also look more comfortable behind the cage than they do in front of it, and they gave Buttermore a number of invert runs against Albany. I think this strategy works pretty well since you have two attackmen in Scanlan and Hiltz who dominate the wings, so there is more space behind the goal.
Mixed feelings. When March came aboard, everyone was pleased because the ball moved around quickly to space. The invert was used judiciously to great success when team occasionally bogged down . Nowgreater use but game planned for , can still have success but leaves us vulnerable to transition agaisnt. Hard to swallow that Cuse was trying to slow agaisnt Albany who was trying to push. Certainly cant complain about offense since they have been have been very productive and efficient but up to this year Cuse was the team that use to wear down opponents late in games with their pace and depth. Dont seem to have the advantange compared to other ACC teams as others have deepened their talent. Possessions are certainly a key component that has handicapped Cuse at times but in other games rather see more diversity . Do love what Refhuss and the attack have done this year just wish mids were joining the party more often and that our pace could more resemble that of uva and unc when able.
 

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