FF teams and recruiting.

[SBU72]

The Final Four consists of a 4 seed, two 5 seeds and a 9 seed. UConn comes closest to being a blue blood. (Gage...). There are a lot of good players on these teams. A few may be able use this as a audition for the NBA, but are there any 1-n-dones? 5 star freshman recruits? Even 4 star freshman who over proformed? I guess my point is that we want SU to get 5* recruits or top 50 recruits but did these teams show that it's not imperative to do so. What does a review of SU recruits show? Benny has under performed. Judah more or less what was expected but what about the others? Yes higher ranking is only an indication of what can be expected and maybe increases the probability but it isn't a guarantee. And no I am not suggesting only pursuing 3* recruits just opening a discussion.

 

[capeorange]

Could be the system and strength and conditioning program too. The 4 remaining teams play much more aggressive D and would easily out muscle us. Those things can be changed with our current group.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The tournament is built for random results.

Just build the best roster you can, get the best seed in the tournament you can, roll the ball out, and win one game at a time.

 

[JRDCuse]

There are a lot of good players on these teams for sure. Go listen to Devos podcast with scoop. At the end scoop says he tried to put cuse on to a Philly kid who went to Miami. If you follow scoop on insta, or just look at their roster, it isn’t too hard to figure out who that was. This kid and Judah would’ve made a hell of a back court. When their careers are all said and done, this kid will have had the best career out of any of the current Miami players.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Athleticism, some shooters, good, tough rebounders, ability to play defense (maybe not Miami). Outside of some shooting, we haven't had much of any of that in years.

 

[Jasoncuse]

There are a lot of good players on these teams for sure. Go listen to Devos podcast with scoop. At the end scoop says he tried to put cuse on to a Philly kid who went to Miami. If you follow scoop on insta, or just look at their roster, it isn’t too hard to figure out who that was. This kid and Judah would’ve made a hell of a back court. When their careers are all said and done, this kid will have had the best career out of any of the current Miami players.

He would've been an absolute perfect zone guard, no less. 6'5" and super athletic.

But we had Buddy and Joe!

 

[JRDCuse]

He would've been an absolute perfect zone guard, no less. 6'5" and super athletic.

But we had Buddy and Joe!

Unbelievably athletic, saw him in Albany. He has forehead above the rim bounce.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Its a weird year in the tournament. I heard it was the 1st time ever that a McDonalds AA isn't playing in the Final Four.

Transfer Portal has changed everything. What you see from the "underdogs" is either/both a heavy dose of upperclassmen and use of NIL with portal players.

Roster building moving forward will be a whole new world and relying on any one method will most likely lead to failure.

 

[Cusefan0307]

There are a lot of good players on these teams for sure. Go listen to Devos podcast with scoop. At the end scoop says he tried to put cuse on to a Philly kid who went to Miami. If you follow scoop on insta, or just look at their roster, it isn’t too hard to figure out who that was. This kid and Judah would’ve made a hell of a back court. When their careers are all said and done, this kid will have had the best career out of any of the current Miami players.

We prioritized Jalen Carey over Isaiah Wong too fwiw.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The P6 only having two teams doesn't happen often. Since we joined the ACC, the P6 has had 29 out of 36 F4s. One of those was UConn's 1st year in the AAC. Another was Houston who is heading to the B12. And two of those were Gonzaga who is basically a P6 calibre team (and might be headed to the B12). Only Loyola in the previous 8 NCAATs was not a bigger program. This year we have two in FAU and San Diego State (although they may be heading to the P12 soon).

Final Fours by conference those 9 NCAATs...

8 - ACC
5 - B12, B1G, SEC
4 - Big East
2 - AAC, P12, WCC
1 - CUSA, MVC, MWC


As to the seeds of the F4 teams over the previous 25 NCAATs...

1-5 seeds accounted for 86% of the F4 teams. So this year having 75% is right in line. However 1-3 seeds accounted for 72% of the teams. No teams this year are a 1-3 seed. Just having two 1-3 seeds would be a pretty big deal. We have ZERO this year. The curse of the 6 seed remains. No F4 teams since 1992.


Of the last 44 Final Four teams, at least 38 will be in a P6 conference next year. If Gonzaga and San Diego State also head to the P6, then it will be 41 out of 44. If that happens then only FAU (AAC), Loyola (A10), and Wichita State (AAC) will be on the outside.

If you go by future conferences then teams in the ___ would account for ___ Final Fours over the last 11 years.

11 - ACC (one per year avg)
8 - B1G
7 - SEC
6 - B12
5 - Big East
2 - AAC, WCC
1- A10, P12, MWC

That could shift if Gonzaga goes to the B12 (bumped to 8), San Diego State goes to the P12 (bumped to 2), or the 4 Big East teams go to the B12 (bumped to 11 or 13 with Gonzaga too).

 

[teamco]

From ESPNStatsInfo- This year is the first FF without a former McDonald's All-American since 1979 when the NCAA tournament began seeding teams.

Statistical fluke, or evidence that NIL $s and the transfer portal are fundamentally changing how coaches go about stocking their programs' with talent?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

From ESPNStatsInfo- This year is the first FF without a former McDonald's All-American since 1979 when the NCAA tournament began seeding teams.

Statistical fluke, or evidence that NIL $s and the transfer portal are fundamentally changing how coaches go about stocking their programs' with talent?

Fluke.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

From ESPNStatsInfo- This year is the first FF without a former McDonald's All-American since 1979 when the NCAA tournament began seeding teams.

Statistical fluke, or evidence that NIL $s and the transfer portal are fundamentally changing how coaches go about stocking their programs' with talent?

I think the extra Covid year is playing into this as well. If you have a bunch of 23 year olds playing a bunch of 18 year olds, the chances are that you will win even with less talent.

How many McDs are not one and done? Even the ones who should stay in schools a 2nd year tend to leave early.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

From ESPNStatsInfo- This year is the first FF without a former McDonald's All-American since 1979 when the NCAA tournament began seeding teams.

Statistical fluke, or evidence that NIL $s and the transfer portal are fundamentally changing how coaches go about stocking their programs' with talent?

We’ll be the ones reverting back to the norm next year with JJ

 

[Otto'd]

The tournament is built for random results.

Just build the best roster you can, get the best seed in the tournament you can, roll the ball out, and win one game at a time.

For a tourney built for Random results the National championships seem to be not Random at all. Its like 6 schools. Nova, Duke, UNC, Kansas, Uconn. Florida.

Count their combined titles since 1999

 

[HRE Otto IV]

For a tourney built for Random results the National championships seem to be not Random at all. Its like 6 schools. Nova, Duke, UNC, Kansas, Uconn. Florida.

Count their combined titles since 1999

The prior 10 NCAATs had 9 different schools win. And if UConn does not win this year it will be 10 different schools over the last 11.

There was a similar run from 1994-2008 where over 15 NCAATs we had 12 different teams win a title.

Since the NCAAT went to 64+ teams we have seen 19 different schools win a title over 37 NCAATs.

5 - Duke
4 - UNC, UConn
3 - Kentucky, Kansas, Nova
2 - Louisville, Florida
1 - UCLA, Indiana, Michigan State, Baylor, UVA, SU, Maryland, Arizona, Arkansas, UNLV, Michigan

Crazy that in the modern era of the NCAAT that UConn could be tied for most titles. The only non current P6 team with a title is UNLV, and that was all the way back in 1990. You have to go back to UTEP in 1966 to find another. Although Louisville did win it in 1986 and wasn't in a P6 at the time.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

For a tourney built for Random results the National championships seem to be not Random at all. Its like 6 schools. Nova, Duke, UNC, Kansas, Uconn. Florida.

Count their combined titles since 1999

You're over indexing on the names of the jerseys, and not enough that strength of teams competing still matters a lot.

 

[SBU72]

With the portal and NIL, I have wondered why teams spend so much effort recruiting.

 

[JimBoston]

There are 2 models to build rosters that top teams are using right now. The first is get as many top recruits as you can including multiple 1 and dones. The second it to recruit really good players (recruits #50 to #125), maybe get 1 top recruit, develop the players, and fill a couple of holes with the portal. The first model means you are going to have a very talented but inexperienced team and it has not resulted in winning national championships. The second model when they have experience can win national championships.

 

[UpstateSM]

I think the extra Covid year is playing into this as well. If you have a bunch of 23 year olds playing a bunch of 18 year olds, the chances are that you will win even with less talent.

How many McDs are not one and done? Even the ones who should stay in schools a 2nd year tend to leave early.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Did you see the K-State coach go into the FAU locker room after they beat K-State? Everyone was fawning over what a classy move it was. All I could think was that in reality it was a recruiting trip.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The Final Four consists of a 4 seed, two 5 seeds and a 9 seed. UConn comes closest to being a blue blood. (Gage...). There are a lot of good players on these teams. A few may be able use this as a audition for the NBA, but are there any 1-n-dones? 5 star freshman recruits? Even 4 star freshman who over proformed? I guess my point is that we want SU to get 5* recruits or top 50 recruits but did these teams show that it's not imperative to do so. What does a review of SU recruits show? Benny has under performed. Judah more or less what was expected but what about the others? Yes higher ranking is only an indication of what can be expected and maybe increases the probability but it isn't a guarantee. And no I am not suggesting only pursuing 3* recruits just opening a discussion.

This Final Four shows that we are in an era when physical defense wins championships.

 

[IthacaMatt]

There are 2 models to build rosters that top teams are using right now. The first is get as many top recruits as you can including multiple 1 and dones. The second it to recruit really good players (recruits #50 to #125), maybe get 1 top recruit, develop the players, and fill a couple of holes with the portal. The first model means you are going to have a very talented but inexperienced team and it has not resulted in winning national championships. The second model when they have experience can win national championships.

Well said. I agree.

 

[rrlbees]

This Final Four shows that we are in an era when physical defense wins championships.

Is it though? It feels like a lot of these games are high scoring and I’ve won money betting the over many times.

 

[grepal]

Could be the system and strength and conditioning program too. The 4 remaining teams play much more aggressive D and would easily out muscle us. Those things can be changed with our current group.

In your face defense, timely shooting, rebounding, strategy, game planning and teamwork are a dangerous combination. If all it took were 5 stars Kentucky and Duke would play in the finals every year, Kansas would play in the game sometimes also.