First 10 Minutes of Second Half

[jgeorge322]

Joe G was as good as it gets. Just phenomenal. Then, he switched into crazy Joe. I think this can be said for the whole team. They make great plays and then cancel them out. E.g. Buddy getting picked right under the hoop at a terrible time. Jimmy fumbling a ball away he should have. I don’t see the defense getting any better so the key to me is reducing the number of avoidable mistakes. I feel like we still make way too many of those.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yeah - the one thing this team does poorly is manage a lead on the road or a lead in general. A lot of that stems from missing the opportunity to slow the pace for a few possessions to get a grip on the game. Usually we end up with 3 to 4 bad possessions with rushed shots or turnovers that erode a good sized lead. It happens as well with 12 mins left because the pace of the game is so fast.

We have to play fast for long stretches but we lack that feel to stop and throw some longer possession body blows to start putting a team away. Part of that is defense for sure. The other though is impatience.

 

[MDCuse]

This has always been my issue with this team. Guys like Joe/Jimmy/Cole serve a role. They are tremendous guys to have coming off the bench. However, when you extend the sample size (give them more minutes) the warts start to show. You will see these guys look like world beaters in spurts then look like High School JV players the next game. These guys aren't good enough to be consistent 30-35 MPG guys, but we don't have much as far as alternatives.

 

[Newhouser]

Joe G was as good as it gets. Just phenomenal. Then, he switched into crazy Joe. I think this can be said for the whole team. They make great plays and then cancel them out. E.g. Buddy getting picked right under the hoop at a terrible time. Jimmy fumbling a ball away he should have. I don’t see the defense getting any better so the key to me is reducing the number of avoidable mistakes. I feel like we still make way too many of those.

Terrible shots are amplified to the Nth degree with this team because our D is so bad. They should be marked as turnovers.

 

[RF2044]

Joe G was as good as it gets. Just phenomenal. Then, he switched into crazy Joe. I think this can be said for the whole team. They make great plays and then cancel them out. E.g. Buddy getting picked right under the hoop at a terrible time. Jimmy fumbling a ball away he should have. I don’t see the defense getting any better so the key to me is reducing the number of avoidable mistakes. I feel like we still make way too many of those.

Fatigue?

 

[CardiacCuse]

its really weird how they can play very very well and also very very poorly for extended stretches...usually every game...the peaks are pretty high but the valleys are also pretty low

i think they often go away from whats working...and tend to get lulled into 1 on 1 gunning at times

of course part of it is the defense but i think this is mental issue

i do think they are starting to "know better" what to do out there, it seems

they cant quite execute certain things even if they know what to i.e. defensive rotations for example...

i said it weeks ago, and i'll repeat...i think by the end of the season, they will be playing at a ncaa tourney caliber but will lack the resume of a tourney team

 

[orangefog]

Fatigue?

Physical and mental. I think JB brought Symir in at the right time in the second half, maybe a minute or two earlier would have worked. But, I wish he would have gotten Benny in there for a few minutes to give the forwards a little time to rest and refocus. It worked out, and maybe it wouldn't have if Benny got in, but maybe it keeps the energy up throughout the second half instead of having the waves.

 

[RF2044]

its really weird how they can play very very well and also very very poorly for extended stretches...usually every game...the peaks are pretty high but the valleys are also pretty low

i think they often go away from whats working...and tend to get lulled into 1 on 1 gunning at times

of course part of it is the defense but i think this is mental issue

i do think they are starting to "know better" what to do out there, it seems

they cant quite execute certain things even if they know what to i.e. defensive rotations for example...

i said it weeks ago, and i'll repeat...i think by the end of the season, they will be playing at a ncaa tourney caliber but will lack the resume of a tourney team

I don't know about "NCAA tournament caliber." This team has a massive fatal flaw, which was on full display last night: inability to defend the three ball.

Late in the second half, we were shooting 80% FOR THE HALF, but were only up 3 because we squandered a double digit lead by allowing a flurry of threes. We gave up at least 15 last night. Probably didn't have any business winning giving up that many, but we pulled it out and closed.

At the end of the day, the most important development might be Swider starting to get into a groove. I think we need him to be closer to 17 ppg than 10 ppg. He's delivered that the last two games, and we've had two big wins.

But at the end of the day, the team is the same that it was on opening night. When we shoot well collectively, we can beat teams. If we don't, we struggle. And the defense gives anybody we play a puncher's chance, because our perimeter defense is so bad.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I don't know about "NCAA tournament caliber." This team has a massive fatal flaw, which was on full display last night: inability to defend the three ball.

Late in the second half, we were shooting 80% FOR THE HALF, but were only up 3 because we squandered a double digit lead by allowing a flurry of threes. We gave up at least 15 last night. Probably didn't have any business winning giving up that many, but we pulled it out and closed.

At the end of the day, the most important development might be Swider starting to get into a groove. I think we need him to be closer to 17 ppg than 10 ppg. He's delivered that the last two games, and we've had two big wins.

But at the end of the day, the team is the same that it was on opening night. When we shoot well collectively, we can beat teams. If we don't, we struggle. And the defense gives anybody we play a puncher's chance, because our perimeter defense is so bad.

i see your way of looking at it...but I think this team is better...much better than the beginning of the season...

swider, sy, and jesse are all playing much better than the first game...even benny is starting to show glimpses of getting it together (but still basically the same level as game 1)

buddy, jimmy and joe are basically the same...although i think buddy and joe are starting to get better at dishing to teammates for scores...their assists are up and the balanced scoring weve seen in recent games is a definite improvement overall, to me

the defense is better...the rotations are better and players are starting to know where to go without thinking...its becming automatic for them...which it decidedly wasnt in the beginning of the season

are they still too slow ? yes. are they giving up too many open 3s? yes. will that change? no

It is a big problem...so, yeah, it puts a ceiling on how good this team can be

i would say the turnovers and poor shot selection at times was as big of a problem in the second half lead evaporation - and thats fixable...unlikely but possible

overall, i gues youre right, they arent gonna win if they dont shoot well...unlike past su teams that could grind a win with d they dont have that option...but i see clear signs of improvement and i expect that to keep going this month and into march...the team will be even better by acc tourney time, imo.

i think something has clicked with the team...of course, there are some gaps in the roster ...but they can still get better and I think they are.

 

[RF2044]

i see your way of looking at it...but I think this team is better...much better than the beginning of the season...

swider, sy, and jesse are all playing much better than the first game...even benny is starting to show glimpses of getting it together (but still basically the same level as game 1)

buddy, jimmy and joe are basically the same...although i think buddy and joe are starting to get better at dishing to teammates for scores...their assists are up and the balanced scoring weve seen in recent games is a definite improvement overall, to me

the defense is better...the rotations are better and players are starting to know where to go without thinking...its becming automatic for them...which it decidedly wasnt in the beginning of the season

are they still too slow ? yes. are they giving up too many open 3s? yes. will that change? no

It is a big problem...so, yeah, it puts a ceiling on how good this team can be

i would say the turnovers and poor shot selection at times was as big of a problem in the second half lead evaporation - and thats fixable...unlikely but possible

overall, i gues youre right, they arent gonna win if they dont shoot well...unlike past su teams that could grind a win with d they dont have that option...but i see clear signs of improvement and i expect that to keep going this month and into march...the team will be even better by acc tourney time, imo.

i think something has clicked with the team...of course, there are some gaps in the roster ...but they can still get better and I think they are.

Good post.

Problem is, the resume is lacking -- and they're running out of time. We also have some bad losses that tarnish our resume. So barring an ACCT run, I just can't envision this team getting to the NCAAT.

 

[DCUNITED13]

Nice point regarding holding a lead. I think it partially stems from not having a "change-up" coming off the bench like we had in the past. No one on the bench can affect a game with a scoring offence. When the starting 5 get a head of steam all is well. However, we do not have a PG that is can drive and dish/create to change how we run our offence. That would be a wrinkle into our normal offence where we could eat up time and change the tone and point of the attack. (Can you imagine having Ty Battle added to this group of shooters). Agree that not much we can do on defense except recognize the upcoming pass quicker.

 

[NorSyr66]

Physical and mental. I think JB brought Symir in at the right time in the second half, maybe a minute or two earlier would have worked. But, I wish he would have gotten Benny in there for a few minutes to give the forwards a little time to rest and refocus. It worked out, and maybe it wouldn't have if Benny got in, but maybe it keeps the energy up throughout the second half instead of having the waves.

Totally agree he needed a bit of time with Benny to give the forwards a blow. At the same time we needed Symir just to take some time of the clock and not be a "turnover" waiting to happen. On top of that, both Symir and Benny would give us at least a bit more defense.

 

[hoopsupstate]

If we had just beat Colgate, Pitt and Georgetown we’d be 14-8 and looking ok.

 

[Newhouser]

Totally agree he needed a bit of time with Benny to give the forwards a blow. At the same time we needed Symir just to take some time of the clock and not be a "turnover" waiting to happen. On top of that, both Symir and Benny would give us at least a bit more defense.

Symir is good at getting it into the frontcourt but last night he was almost a turnover waiting to happen when he would penetrate and not look to shoot and got stuck in no man's land a couple of times.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Totally agree he needed a bit of time with Benny to give the forwards a blow. At the same time we needed Symir just to take some time of the clock and not be a "turnover" waiting to happen. On top of that, both Symir and Benny would give us at least a bit more defense.

If we had just five more stops last night we could have won easily. Just better focus and more effort could result in easier games. Our guards need to stay home on defense and stop following the ball. If you’re in Smith’s area you stay with him and not follow the ball. They leave and guard air and are in position to guard no one.

 

[upperdeck]

if you just dont have Buddy giving the ball away twice for layup baskets the lead ever really gets down to under 7 and never gets stressful.. that gave NC st life.

 

[kuethstheman]

If we had just five more stops last night we could have won easily. Just better focus and more effort could result in easier games. Our guards need to stay home on defense and stop following the ball. If you’re in Smith’s area you stay with him and not follow the ball. They leave and guard air and are in position to guard no one.

"Guarding air" is so common throughout the years that I almost wonder if it's coached that way. Even the better defensive teams have done that. I would think it's better for them to match up with a perimeter player. You see it sometimes but not often.

 

[MDCuse]

If we had just beat Colgate, Pitt and Georgetown we’d be 14-8 and looking ok.

But that's who this team is. They just aren't good enough.

 

[AlaskaSU]

The key is Swisher. At 6'9" he a!ways has a height advantage over his defender. When Buddy is covered by a 3 Swisher is covered by a 2. Although be has been on fire from 3 the last 2 games that is unsustainable. We need to see him have a powerful mid-range game where he should have consistently good percentages. We have a height advantage that is being underutilized. Offense is ouf strength and we need to play to it.

 

[SU94]

Fatigue?

I generally agree with this, but it should be pointed out that NCSU's run to largely erase the 10-11 point deficit began after a timeout. I think in this instance, it was more about NCSU's fatigue (semi remedied by the TO) and re-dedication to their defensive pressure. The result, a 16-7 run over 6 minutes that got the Wolfies back within 2 points with 6 minutes left. Then they tired again and Cole hit a crutch second-chance three to get the lead back up to 5.

JAB needs to have some faith in the reserves, because winning 4 in 4 days in Greensboro is our only shot (and you know this is what JAB is thinking). The starters cannot play 145 minutes over 4-5 days.

 

[NineOneSeven]

We are 11-11. This is not a tournament team. Even if they somehow won the ACCT (shocking stuff), that second sentence is still a fact. Georgia once won the SEC tournament as a clear non-tournament team.

11-11. I hope they can pull out 17-14.

 

[Orangezoo]

But that's who this team is. They just aren't good enough.

Add the coaching element to that part of team too. There are things in every loss this year that take me back to better teams/years. The situational/tactical substitutions are not what they used to be. Whether it's a hockey line change, not bringing Benny in for 2 minutes ahead of a media TO or to clean up things on one wing on D or even to spell our unathletic forwards that have to expel twice the energy vs a prototypical SU wing.

These little moves were the things that JB just mastered to the point of holding serve to make a run, holding a lead, etc.

Now you don't see the effect- the changes sometimes work but it's as consistent as the team itself.

 

[MDCuse]

Add the coaching element to that part of team too. There are things in every loss this year that take me back to better teams/years. The situational/tactical substitutions are not what they used to be. Whether it's a hockey line change, not bringing Benny in for 2 minutes ahead of a media TO or to clean up things on one wing on D or even to spell our unathletic forwards that have to expel twice the energy vs a prototypical SU wing.

These little moves were the things that JB just mastered to the point of holding serve to make a run, holding a lead, etc.

Now you don't see the effect- the changes sometimes work but it's as consistent as the team itself.

Oh, to me, Jim is the absolute A1 reason why this team isn't very good. From failures in recruiting, failure to develop players, to the current roster construction this is all on Jim. This current roster is so poorly constructed that he's basically pinned himself into a corner on how to manager minutes, subs, etc

 

[CardiacCuse]

We are 11-11. This is not a tournament team. Even if they somehow won the ACCT (shocking stuff), that second sentence is still a fact. Georgia once won the SEC tournament as a clear non-tournament team.

11-11. I hope they can pull out 17-14.

well I agree with you...but I think the resume/criteria of an ncaa tourney team is different from what it means to be playing at an ncaa tourney level in march.

based on resume...there really isnt any scenario this team makes the tourney, aside from running the table from here on out...even then would likely be quite iffy...i understand how the resume review system works and i get it.

I would just say that a team is capable of playing at a top 25 level or top 40 or whatever by the end of the season even if they werent that for most of the year. the lightbulb can come on and a team can click all of a sudden - it happens in every sport. the st louis cardinals won like 19 games in a row this past baseball season at the end of the year after being a 500 team the whole year, for example.

in other words - current level of a team doesnt have to align with how a team's entire season would be assessed/ranked. generally there isnt much difference between the two...and thats why they use the entire season to assess teams - but there are exceptions, imo...and i think theres a small chance it could happen with this team...especially given how the last two games have gone

 

[djcon57]

well I agree with you...but I think the resume/criteria of an ncaa tourney team is different from what it means to be playing at an ncaa tourney level in march.

based on resume...there really isnt any scenario this team makes the tourney, aside from running the table from here on out...even then would likely be quite iffy...i understand how the resume review system works and i get it.

I would just say that a team is capable of playing at a top 25 level or top 40 or whatever by the end of the season even if they werent that for most of the year. the lightbulb can come on and a team can click all of a sudden - it happens in every sport. the st louis cardinals won like 19 games in a row this past baseball season at the end of the year after being a 500 team the whole year, for example.

in other words - current level of a team doesnt have to align with how a team's entire season would be assessed/ranked. generally there isnt much difference between the two...and thats why they use the entire season to assess teams - but there are exceptions, imo...and i think theres a small chance it could happen with this team...especially given how the last two games have gone

i get your point, but if you go back to the last 3 games, we were creamed by terrible Pitt. Is a 2 game span really enough to say “we’re back”