Five Reasons Why You Can't Blame Greg Robinson | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Five Reasons Why You Can't Blame Greg Robinson

xc84 said:
Translation:


2. He was hired around the same time most college coaches are hired. After the end of the season.


He was hired a good month after most college coaches were hired, it had a direct effect on his ability to hire assistants.
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Nonsense. One month is nothing and the first year is always a wash for recruiting with late hires. Every coach has that problem. Look at Marrone...he followed a lame duck who recruited no one that year. The cupboard was absolutely bare. His situation was much worse and he deserves no breaks because of it. It's BAU and goes with the territory. All coaches need to recover from that. Gerg never did...never showed us he could recruit or coach. He was soft on discipline and fitness of the players. Don't get me started.
 
OPA: why start this thread?
(actually please don't answer)

I just hope there's isn't a follow up "Why the NNBE should be considered to be a major conference." thread.

GRob is ancient history and the BE/NBE/NNBE will soon be as well.

Time to move on ...
 
timkay99 said:
Here are the five reasons you can't blame Coach Marrone if he fails here:

1. He is an outstanding football coach having had major success at New Orleans and New York.

2. He was hired late - in mid December - leaving little time to put together a recruiting class.

3. He was never the top choice of the administration or AD and was only given the job after there were failed attempts at other candidates.

4. His ability to recruit from the outset was hindered by the fact that he had spent most of his previous time in the NFL

5. Nobody realized the extent to which the Football Infrastructure had deteriorated by the time took over - certainly Marrone had no idea and really had no idea what he was getting himself into or where the program had been headed during the previous ten years.
Expand...

Filled it in for Marrone above.

In the end, Robinson failed. To say anything otherwise or to say why he shouldn't be looked at as failing is to ignore facts.[/quote]


Actually the analogy is factually incorrect for a number of reasons.

In no particular order.

Pasqualoni was fired one week following a late December bowl game - after having been promised another season at the helm.

For that reason, the process of securing coaches was significantly delayed.

With Robinson it was announced that he would not return before the ND game - with two games remaining in the season. For that reason there was a great deal of time to secure coaches.

So, in that respect your post is inaccurate.

Second, Marrone actually had enough time to recruit a very decent class in 2009. That classs included Shamarko Thomas, Philip Thomas, E. J. Carter, Brandon Sharpe, Andrew Tiller, Torrey Ball and I think R'Shard Anderson amongst others. He also brought in a guy named Greg Paulus. It was a relatively strong effort.

So, in that respect your post is inaccurate.

Third, Marrone was a Syracuse guy with close HS contacts in the NYS area and down south where he had been a very strong recruiter. Also, he brought on board John Anselmo and Bob Casullo who had strong local recruiting contacts. As opposed to Robinson who had few if any NE contacts, Marrone had many strong ones.

So, in that respect, your post is inaccurate.

With respect to infrastructure, Dr. Gross determined early in Robinson's tenure that the football infrastructure was lacking. He added field turf to the Dome and to the practice facilities and improved fund raising. By 2009 - as opposed to 2004 - the problems had been identified and the process of fixing it had begun.

So, in that respect, your post is inaccurate.

Marrone was well aware of where SU Football stood when he took over, having applied for the job when P was fired, having continued his close relationship with Coach Mac and of course having gone to SU and having retained his close NYS coaching contacts.

So, in that respect, your post is inaccurate.

You're correct - Marrone had a solid NFL coaching career, though nowhere near as long or as successful as that of Robinson.

So, in that respect, your post is accurate in a strict sense, but probably misses the true measure of Robinson's pro successes.

Other than what is noted above, your post is a nice attempt at irony, though it is pretty much way, way off target.

But thank you for playing!!
 
jurrie said:
OPA: why start this thread?
(actually please don't answer)

I just hope there's isn't a follow up "Why the NNBE should be considered to be a major conference." thread.

GRob is ancient history and the BE/NBE/NNBE will soon be as well.

Time to move on ...
Expand...


Sorry, but for those who can't figure things out.

The thread was started simply to spur conversation on what has been a very dead and boring board.

The thought was to mimic the ESPN Classic program "Why You Can't Blame ....." which looks back on things like the Colts loss in the Super Bowl to the Jets, the Buckner error in the World Series, the Trailblazers' decision to draft Sam Bowie over Jordan. That kind of thing.

So, yes these issues are "ancient history" but they can be discussed from different perspective simply as sports talk.

And that's what the post sought to generate.

Hopefully you now understand what was going on.
 
Actually the analogy is factually incorrect for a number of reasons.

In no particular order.

Pasqualoni was fired one week following a late December bowl game - after having been promised another season at the helm.

For that reason, the process of securing coaches was significantly delayed.

With Robinson it was announced that he would not return before the ND game - with two games remaining in the season. For that reason there was a great deal of time to secure coaches.

So, in that respect your post is inaccurate.

Second, Marrone actually had enough time to recruit a very decent class in 2009. That classs included Shamarko Thomas, Philip Thomas, E. J. Carter, Brandon Sharpe, Andrew Tiller, Torrey Ball and I think R'Shard Anderson amongst others. He also brought in a guy named Greg Paulus. It was a relatively strong effort.

So, in that respect your post is inaccurate.

Third, Marrone was a Syracuse guy with close HS contacts in the NYS area and down south where he had been a very strong recruiter. Also, he brought on board John Anselmo and Bob Casullo who had strong local recruiting contacts. As opposed to Robinson who had few if any NE contacts, Marrone had many strong ones.

So, in that respect, your post is inaccurate.

With respect to infrastructure, Dr. Gross determined early in Robinson's tenure that the football infrastructure was lacking. He added field turf to the Dome and to the practice facilities and improved fund raising. By 2009 - as opposed to 2004 - the problems had been identified and the process of fixing it had begun.

So, in that respect, your post is inaccurate.

Marrone was well aware of where SU Football stood when he took over, having applied for the job when P was fired, having continued his close relationship with Coach Mac and of course having gone to SU and having retained his close NYS coaching contacts.

So, in that respect, your post is inaccurate.

You're correct - Marrone had a solid NFL coaching career, though nowhere near as long or as successful as that of Robinson.

So, in that respect, your post is accurate in a strict sense, but probably misses the true measure of Robinson's pro successes.

Other than what is noted above, your post is a nice attempt at irony, though it is pretty much way, way off target.

But thank you for playing!!
Expand...


wow...good post but has nothing to do with what you are rebutting. So, in that respect, your post is inaccurate.
 
Coach P was never promised anything, it's an urban legend:

I’ve met with Jake to discuss his evaluation of the 2004 season and his recommendation that Paul be retained. Jake’s recommendation is based in large part on the four criteria he established in measuring the football program. I’ve accepted Jake’s recommendation and have communicated to Paul our intention that he will go into his 15th football season as head coach at SU. At the same time, he also understands my position that the new athletics director will be empowered to evaluate the football program and our entire athletic operation and make his/her own decisions about the best ways to move forward. The evaluation of this fall’s football season, as we said earlier, was on Jake’s watch and the future of the football program will be the new AD’s responsibility. Paul knows there are no guarantees and that he will need to show he has a plan to help Syracuse reclaim its football signature.

http://www.suathletics.com/sports/2004/12/6/cantorquotes12604.aspx

http://www.suathletics.com/news/2004/12/6/fbpresser.aspx?path=football

The irony is that Gross didn't even have to conduct his own evaluation ... it was done for him.
 
xc84 said:
wow...good post but has nothing to do with what you are rebutting. So, in that respect, your post is inaccurate.
Expand...



Wow is right. Try reading the thread again.

The response was to the attempt by the poster to compare Robinson's tenure to Marrone's tenure.

The response was not an attempt to challenge a rebuttal of the original thought - that "you can't blame Robinson."

So, in that respect your post is inaccurate.
 
OrangeXtreme said:
Coach P was never promised anything, it's an urban legend:

I’ve met with Jake to discuss his evaluation of the 2004 season and his recommendation that Paul be retained. Jake’s recommendation is based in large part on the four criteria he established in measuring the football program. I’ve accepted Jake’s recommendation and have communicated to Paul our intention that he will go into his 15th football season as head coach at SU. At the same time, he also understands my position that the new athletics director will be empowered to evaluate the football program and our entire athletic operation and make his/her own decisions about the best ways to move forward. The evaluation of this fall’s football season, as we said earlier, was on Jake’s watch and the future of the football program will be the new AD’s responsibility. Paul knows there are no guarantees and that he will need to show he has a plan to help Syracuse reclaim its football signature.

http://www.suathletics.com/sports/2004/12/6/cantorquotes12604.aspx

http://www.suathletics.com/news/2004/12/6/fbpresser.aspx?path=football

The irony is that Gross didn't even have to conduct his own evaluation ... it was done for him.
Expand...


Cantor was clearly promising a return in 2005 - based upon Jake's evaluation of the 2004 season.

It would be up to Gross to evaluate after the 2005 season.

She was not suggesting that her decision on 2005 would be subject to review by Gross.

And you're right, it was not Gross who eventually decided to can P. It was Cantor who was pushed to do it by certain members of the BOT.
 
OrangePA said:
Wow is right. Try reading the thread again.

The response was to the attempt by the poster to compare Robinson's tenure to Marrone's tenure.

The response was not an attempt to challenge a rebuttal of the original thought - that "you can't blame Robinson."

So, in that respect your post is inaccurate.
Expand...
Hmmm... When you use the term "So, in that respect your post is inaccurate" multiple times in your post as your conclusions...that's a rebuttal.
 
I humbly submit that Greg Robinson, as a college football coach, can most accurately be compared to the picture to the left.
 
Why are we still discussing the past 10 years? You can go to any other fan board on the internet and here them talk about how Syracuse sucks at football, how we are a basketball school, how we are responsible for FSU and Clemson trying to bolt to the Big 12, how SU hasn't been relevant in football since the 50s. Do we need to keep dredging up the worst era in SU history when we have a promising (I hope) future to look forward to in the ACC? I frankly don't care anymore if it was P's fault or Robinson's fault or Cantor's fault or Jake's fault. I want to know who deserve the praise if we finally climb out of the grave we almost got buried in.
 
xc84 said:
Hmmm... When you use the term "So, in that respect your post is inaccurate" multiple times in your post as your conclusions...that's a rebuttal.
Expand...


You just don't get it.

Let me try to explain again.

The post was a "rebuttal" to the notion advanced by the poster that Robinson and Marrone had comparable experiences at Syracuse University.
 
OrangePA said:
Cantor was clearly promising a return in 2005 - based upon Jake's evaluation of the 2004 season.

It would be up to Gross to evaluate after the 2005 season.

She was not suggesting that her decision on 2005 would be subject to review by Gross.

And you're right, it was not Gross who eventually decided to can P. It was Cantor who was pushed to do it by certain members of the BOT.
Expand...

I think Cantor was anticipating that it would take months to hire a new AD, not a week. Of course, I don't think Cantor was anticipating the second worst bowl loss in SU history either.
 
OrangePA said:
You just don't get it.

Let me try to explain again.

The post was a "rebuttal" to the notion advanced by the poster that Robinson and Marrone had comparable experiences at Syracuse University.
Expand...

Yes, it was a rebuttal to that post. That's what I said the first time. He didn't exactly say they had comparable experiences. He just changed the original lost to fit Marrone in. However, each had his own difficulties which were normal difficulties in late-year hires. There were certainly some similarities, though e.g. Both were hired right after the seasons ended. and differences , e.g. Marrone had to contend with a lame duck predecessor who had virtually no recruits to hand to Marrone.

To put it another way, these were all valid points about Marrone:

1. He is an outstanding football coach having had major success at New Orleans and New York.

2. He was hired late - in mid December - leaving little time to put together a recruiting class.

3. He was never the top choice of the administration or AD and was only given the job after there were failed attempts at other candidates.

4. His ability to recruit from the outset was hindered by the fact that he had spent most of his previous time in the NFL

5. Nobody realized the extent to which the Football Infrastructure had deteriorated by the time took over - certainly Marrone had no idea and really had no idea what he was getting himself into or where the program had been headed during the previous ten years.
 
OrangeXtreme said:
I think Cantor was anticipating that it would take months to hire a new AD, not a week. Of course, I don't think Cantor was anticipating the second worst bowl loss in SU history either.
Expand...


Cantor gave Pasqualoni the go ahead for 2005 on December 6, 2004.

The bowl game was on December 21, 2004.

I can't figure out the date Daryl was actually hired. I'm sure it was in December, 2004.

Obviously he was already acting as AD by the Champs Bowl.

The decision to fire P occurred at halftime of the Champs Bowl. It was orchestrated by a few members of the BOT who convinced Cantor to act - after calculating the money that they could raise to buy out Coach P.

So, yes the trouncing - at halftime - prompted the decision by Cantor to change her mind.

I have always wondered what would have happened had the Orange come back and won that game.
 
This is one of the worst threads of late, on several levels, on any of these forums. Can it just be deleted?
 
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