Flush it. This group will stabilize things.

[RedtheGOB]

Does it just so happen our team “doesn’t have it” everytime we play a quad 1 team? Pretty convenient.

Well each year is a dramatically different team now at least but Autry is the common denominator. That’s why it’s on him and he is pretty much a dead man walking.

Fun fact. We’re a quad 1 game for Tennessee. And they’re a quad 1 for us. Crazy times.

 

[RedtheGOB]

That's simply not how you take care of your guys, and I wouldn't want anybody as HC that would ever have this attitude.

I know. I would never really say go if you can’t but damn it’s brutal. It’s just really really bad Luck

 

[tptcuse]

I’m feeling better today too but mathematically it’s going to be very difficult to make the tournament now.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

I know. I would never really say go if you can’t but damn it’s brutal. It’s just really really bad Luck

I hear that. If this group sticks together, I think they'll be okay. Call me crazy, but I just feel like there's something different in the air this year.

 

[OrangeinDC]

fundamentally, I agree. But it brings up some important points:

1 - you can't play "level 5 defense" 3 days in a row - but where is the self-awareness from the coach on that FACT? yeah you can say...3 games in 3 days is going to make it hard to play intense d every minute of every game, and its true...but thats not really an excuse for not adjusting to reality.

for me, this is a common pattern with Red's methods...he just puts his head down and does what hes going to do regardless of situation or advantage. no winning coach has this in common with red.

his situational awareness is abysmal...which is kinda a big deal for a coach.

2. you knew going in to the festival it would be 3 games in 3 days. it wasnt a surprise. its just not enough to make the entire identity of the team "level 5 defense" and max effort all the time as the entire strategy.

the other teams use X's and O's to beat opponents not simply "extreme intensity"...so thats why Iowa State was fine in the 2nd half, even though they were missing their leading scorer. they have an identity on BOTH SIDES of the ball...one that they can sustain and thrive in no matter the circumstances.

i do genuinely beleive that if SU was given proper prep time for kansas and iowa state those games go much better for the orange...but the consequences are still all that matters.

3. its been the same all 3 of reds years - he takes until well into the season to figure out he wants to play and establish schemes etc. Ok, he got the defense going...Ok. great. but the offense is the same offense that got JB canned. this iso spread NBA style stand around jack threes and try to score 1 on 1 with a center (even though I like Kyle) who is very limited in what he can and cannot do aka he can dunk or pass basically...with no post presence basically. Red gets the offense figured out after the season is over, basically. and this is year 3. why do the other programs seem to have everything installed and ready to go from game 1? in this era of non con being so important...HOW IN THE WORLD CAN A COACH BE OKAY WITH NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE HIS SCHEMES INSTALLED AND IRONED OUT FROM GAME 1? red doesnt actually have an offensive system!!

4. yeah...you wonder why the entire roster is shooting well below their career averages, even at the line...welll...maaaaybe givng level 5 defense effort all game...has a negative impact on the offense. in fact, im sure it does. and it definitely did on the 2nd half of the Iowa state game. besides the fact that the system itself is way too basic and easy to defend, with a major lack of actual plays.

5. red should know that his style and system...what of it there is...cannot possibly work out well in a 3 games and 3 days situation. even if you gave red the option of picking his roster from all of ncaabb, his team would suffer in game 3. what does he do to adjust? NOTHING. bc he doesnt have anything else up his sleeve.

his onyl way of impacting games is by subbing players in and out and cheerleadng...what were his x's and o's adjustments???? he really doesnt do much there, esp on offense. he does bring out the press on d...but come on...there is a clear lack of "mastermindedness" going on.

of course he must play this "festival" bc it is all about NIL for his players and thats all THEY care about...but the format of this tourney SUCKS. coaches should be dissing the helll out of it and demanding massive changes.

listening to his post game after iowa state was cringe af...he literally has no shame or embarassment...he is happy with what happened" he is glad..."they can compete with anyone" bc they coudlnt in his first 2 years...despite getting BLASTED. and going 0-3...i wonder if this broke any of his players confidence like we saw with bell, taylor, carlos, etc in reds other seasons...probably it mightve. idk.

First off, can I say.. It's good to talk hoops and not just I hate Red (not saying that's you).

Here are my thoughts on your points.

1) This depends on what the Coache's objectives are, if it's big picture, you wanna push them to their limit, like training a muscle, especially with a new team, 5 games into the season and missing top player, that's a legitimate approach if you think your team has good potential. If it's just for the game, you manage what's in front of you. Don't agree with Red being the only coach that uses this approach.

2) I didn't see anyone beat us purely with x's and o's outside that stretch second half of Iowa state, I agree, every coach has to figure their strategy, but for me, if I'm building a team I "expect" to develop them over the course of the season, I don't expect them to have a season worth of experience etc in game 5, that's coaching to me. Building an identity is just that.. building.

3) I don't agree with this. Having every detail and scheme ironed out by game 1 isn't realistic with a team of 9 new players including several freshmen. Everyone is learning their roles, limits and how the react and play under pressure, no way that's done game 1.

4) If you ever want to build a team, you start with defense, period. Schemes etc. take time, however heart hustle, energy and effort don't.

5) I think Red knows the style and system he wants to play; however you have to get there with the players, coaching and it's gonna take some time.

Just my thoughts.. Some of the stuff I didn't get into because I think it's more of personal preference which is ok.

 

[Blanko97]

5) I think Red knows the style and system he wants to play; however you have to get there with the players, coaching and it's gonna take some time.

how come Iowa state had a system that works? Their coach has made the tournament every year he’s been there.

 

[OrangeinDC]

how come Iowa state had a system that works? Their coach has made the tournament every year he’s been there.

If the thought is that just having a "system" is all it takes, then they would have no loses the last 3 years,
It lets you know there are more intangibles than just having a system, otherwise teams would never lose.

 

[Blanko97]

If the thought is that just having a "system" is all it takes, then they would have no loses the last 3 years,
It lets you know there are more intangibles than just having a system, otherwise teams would never lose.

I’m not saying they can’t lose, I’m just saying why doesn’t red have a system yet Iowa states new head coach clearly had one that works right away. They made the tournament, Syracuse hasn’t. What makes them special? Time clearly isn’t the issue.

 

[OrangeinDC]

I’m not saying they can’t lose, I’m just saying why doesn’t red have a system yet Iowa states new head coach clearly had one that works right away. They made the tournament, Syracuse hasn’t. What makes them special? Time clearly isn’t the issue.

Not going to go to deep, I think he's a good coach.

Intangibles... I don't think it actually looks like you said..

-The year before he got there, they made the sweet sixteen, as a matter of fact outside of a 3 year window between 2019-2021 they have made post season every year since 2012.

-Clearly they recruit the type of players for their system and have been doing so for a while

-Not sure of the actual roster turnover etc., but it doesn't seem like he stepped into a bare bone situation

-Not sure of the overall experience, age of their players but they clearly have found a balance somewhere

-Don't know what parts of the old system, returning players he has, but it matters

-Seems like he's building on what was done before to continue making them better or fully implementing his style..

 

[Starman]

I have flashes of thinking like the OP, and certainly that's what I'm hoping for. It's just so hard after seeing everything go tits up for years straight. I think that Autry has a ton of very reasonable excuses for the last 3 years. But at a certain point, you need to see some wins in spite of the excuses. Hopefully that's what happens now, but we have to see it to believe it.

 

[Blanko97]

Not going to go to deep, I think he's a good coach.

Intangibles... I don't think it actually looks like you said..

-The year before he got there, they made the sweet sixteen, as a matter of fact outside of a 3 year window between 2019-2021 they have made post season every year since 2012.

-Clearly they recruit the type of players for their system and have been doing so for a while

-Not sure of the actual roster turnover etc., but it doesn't seem like he stepped into a bare bone situation

-Not sure of the overall experience, age of their players but they clearly have found a balance somewhere

-Don't know what parts of the old system, returning players he has, but it matters

-Seems like he's building on what was done before to continue making them better or fully implementing his style..

He took over a team that went 2-22, after a 12-20 season. It’s irrelevant what happened before that because he wasn’t the coach. The point is he took a much worse situation and was immediately successful meanwhile were making up endless excuses for why red couldn’t possibly be expected to do that here by year 3.

 

[OrangeinDC]

He took over a team that went 2-22, after a 12-20 season. It’s irrelevant what happened before that because he wasn’t the coach. The point is he took a much worse situation and was immediately successful meanwhile were making up endless excuses for why red couldn’t possibly be expected to do that here by year 3.

I hear you... but I can't give excuses, I'm just on a sports board. Which means it's just my opinion.

 

[Anstza]

You can’t hit free throws. No way. Bad coaching too.

 

[Anstza]

I’ve never seen a team that shoots free throws this bad. Is it possible? I could go to Sportsreference and find some teams maybe. But nobody that shoots free throws this badly sniffs a tournament. If there were 5 Shaqs starting the FT% would be higher. What gives?

 

[upperdeck]

We were a play away from beating a top 5. leading vs Kansas under 4min, and leading vs ISU at the half.

Sure, they failed late but that's like hitting approaches to 10ft and not making the putts. Give yourself chances and learn. ISU played a lights out 2nd half.

We played 6 halfs vs good teams and had 1 bad one. Thats a win

 

[powdersmack]

We were a play away from beating a top 5. leading vs Kansas under 4min, and leading vs ISU at the half.

Sure, they failed late but that's like hitting approaches to 10ft and not making the putts. Give yourself chances and learn. ISU played a lights out 2nd half.

We played 6 halfs vs good teams and had 1 bad one. Thats a win

Awesome! Maybe the committee will look at it the exact same way come tourney time.

 

[Vorony]

We were a play away from beating a top 5. leading vs Kansas under 4min, and leading vs ISU at the half.

Sure, they failed late but that's like hitting approaches to 10ft and not making the putts. Give yourself chances and learn. ISU played a lights out 2nd half.

We played 6 halfs vs good teams and had 1 bad one. Thats a win

We went 0-3 and dug ourselves a significant hole to reach the postseason once again before December even begins. That’s not a win in year 3.

 

[upperdeck]

St Johns lost to ISU/Ala/Auburn? Did they dig themselves a big hole?

But wins vs Quin/Bucknell/ Will_mary/ Baylor means they are ranked top 15?

Until we play those first ACC games around New Years we wont know anything about this team.

9-4 when the ACC opens and they lets see where it goes.

All I see so far is that we are not top 25 team right now.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I’m feeling better today too but mathematically it’s going to be very difficult to make the tournament now.

This is the way to look at it. We have no margin of error. We have to beat every bad team left on our schedule while likely beating two of Duke, Louisville, or UNC in 4 total games against them of which 3 are on the road.

 

[Eric15]

We were a play away from beating a top 5. leading vs Kansas under 4min, and leading vs ISU at the half.

Our final lead against Kansas was up 5-4 two minutes into the game.

 

[Tony DeFranco]

To
Your point, I looked up the minutes and net points the team has since JJ return. It’s alarming.
-13.9 net points Syracuse has to its opposition. The offense was flowing better while JJ was gone . Not sure what you do. But seemed to be better to start Anthony and bring JJ back sparingly.

Maybe we weren't playing Monmouth

 

[Scooch]

All we can do is hope they get their act together and come out on Tuesday ready to win.

I'm not terribly interested in participating in the Fire Red/Throw Possible Replacement Coaches Against the Wall Because I Looked At The Standings This Morning And Now I'm A Coaching Expert threads.

If it comes to that, we'll have loads of time in early March to discuss those things.

For now, I just want to see this team shoot the damn ball well on Tuesday. See them freakin' move and cut on offense. Find an open shooter after real ball movement and launch shots quickly.

 

[Fly Rodder]

St Johns lost to ISU/Ala/Auburn? Did they dig themselves a big hole?

Yes. To me, Pitino to SU was always only a joke. Some people took it seriously (and still do, same with Bruce Pearl ... and Jay Wright and etc). I think Slick can still coach obviously, but he's not going to build a stable program for the next decade plus. You get a couple of years tops, and then he's done.

I love your optimism. I don’t know if I fully share it but I’m trying to stay positive. I wanna see how they perform for the rest of the non-conference and early conference play.

I think the players are better, I don't know how reliable Donnie Freeman is. Big talented guys are always injury risks, some more than others. Maybe he's in the latter category. He's good when he's available, but maybe he's always going to have injury issues. It happens. I'd like to see him play some games in January and February.

Overall, though, I don't think that Red is the guy, but I really liked what I saw in the Houston game sans free throws. I don't know if that is the anomaly though. They may have played the best game that they play this year and lost in OT.

 

[Vorony]

St Johns lost to ISU/Ala/Auburn? Did they dig themselves a big hole?

But wins vs Quin/Bucknell/ Will_mary/ Baylor means they are ranked top 15?

Until we play those first ACC games around New Years we wont know anything about this team.

9-4 when the ACC opens and they lets see where it goes.

All I see so far is that we are not top 25 team right now.

SJU obviously won’t be top 15 when the new rankings come out on Monday. You know that. And Rick Pitino >>>>>> Adrian Autry. Their fanbase can have a lot more confidence in how the rest of their season plays out.

 

[Tony DeFranco]

Our final lead against Kansas was up 5-4 two minutes into the game.

We were down 10 to Houston with 3 mins to go - we trailed by 10 the majority of the Kansas game - and we happened to be hitting a bunch of three's against Iowa St in the first half - the second half of the ISU game was really disappointing - we didnt belong on the court with them - we are a bubble team if we play well - hopefully things get better if and when Donnie comes back - but the reality is we do not have a player that will play in the NBA - even Donnie will barely get a look at the NBA and nothing more - only chance of success is Red convincing everyone we need max effort every defensive possession - we just don't have the talent offensively - but we can make the tournament if we put things together