For all you bashers of unworthy academic institutions

[JoeCollege]

for whatever conference expansion scenarios you discuss.

Today's "Chronicle of Higher Education" (The WSJ of the field) has a lovely photo of TWO on the cover with a lengthy article discussing "Syracuse's Slide". The subtitle is "Chancellor focuses on 'public good' as ranking declines.

Discuss.

 

[dash-30-dash]

where can we get a copy of this article?

 

[CusefanATL]

just a quick search, i havent read them yet:

http://chronicle.com/article/Syracuses-Slide/129238/

i think this may be a response
http://chronicle.com/article/Scholarship-That-Contributes/129299/

 

[Jeepers]

This should be the full article. I believe CusefanATL's above is blocked.

http://chronicle.com/article/Syracu...zKFRpM3ZOYn1nZjcRaDZWPyc9YRkgYyFBPiokbl9SFA==

 

[Townie72]

for whatever conference expansion scenarios you discuss.

Today's "Chronicle of Higher Education" (The WSJ of the field) has a lovely photo of TWO on the cover with a lengthy article discussing "Syracuse's Slide". The subtitle is "Chancellor focuses on 'public good' as ranking declines.

Discuss.

Because SU's academic rank is falling doesn't make it an open-enrollment Memphis or Louisville.

 

[omniorange]

Great articles which should be discussed in depth somewhere, but wasted on a sports board. No matter how much SU has "perceived" to have fallen in terms of undergraduate/graduate education, it's still an elite academic institution in everything but scientific/medical research in comparison with the likes of WVU, UC, UL, and USF.

It's AAU membership (research) was always questionable in terms of the natural sciences, engineering, and medicine. Areas where the likes of a UC or USF are superior and will remain superior.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Millhouse]

Great articles which should be discussed in depth somewhere, but wasted on a sports board. No matter how much SU has "perceived" to have fallen in terms of undergraduate/graduate education, it's still an elite academic institution in everything but scientific/medical research in comparison with the likes of WVU, UC, UL, and USF.

It's AAU membership (research) was always questionable in terms of the natural sciences, engineering, and medicine. Areas where the likes of a UC or USF are superior and will remain superior.

Cheers,
Neil

stonecash (great guy) sums it up very concisely in the comments

what i think...
fewer merit scholarships + increased enrollment = lower avg test scores = lower rankings

 

[Faegan]

It's still makes me sick and there can be a better balance of both.

 

[omniorange]

stonecash (great guy) sums it up very concisely in the comments

what i think...
fewer merit scholarships + increased enrollment = lower avg test scores = lower rankings

Actually, Stonecash may be part of the problem, despite being a "great guy". Examples: Did his data take into consideration any new endowed chairs or faculty positions that may have "freed" up monies that could be spent on needed administrative positions that were probably already lacking for decades? Did he do a comparison of student enrollment increases at other "elite" institutions and compare it to the increase in full-time faculty positions there?

Most faculty I know in education would "kill" to see a 13% increase in full-time faculty positions with only a 20% increase in the student population.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[supp]

Actually, Stonecash may be part of the problem, despite being a "great guy". Examples: Did his data take into consideration any new endowed chairs or faculty positions that may have "freed" up monies that could be spent on needed administrative positions that were probably already lacking for decades? Did he do a comparison of student enrollment increases at other "elite" institutions and compare it to the increase in full-time faculty positions there?

Most faculty I know in education would "kill" to see a 13% increase in full-time faculty positions with only a 20% increase in the student population.

Cheers,
Neil

There is a lot of fat in "middle management" in the academy, not just at Syracuse. Part of the problem is that faculty members have divorced themselves from their previous administrative responsibilities over the past generation, and to their own peril as you point out. More and more business degrees have invaded high administration as a result. It's the development and marketing offices that have especially grown in the past 20-30 years. In turn, less and less consideration has been given to the primary mission of the university and more money spent on selling a college "experience," building global "synergies," and hiring "brand-making" faculty with little to no real teaching responsibilities. There's good reason why many college students recently polled express disappointment at what they've actually learned while at school.

 

[OttoMets]

It's not a bad piece, but this bugged me: "(This fall the university has helped rip up a one-way street toward the university and made it two-way, as a symbol of connection between the campus and the town.)"

Terribly misleading; SU is funding the street improvements (20% of the street improvements, actually, since the federal DOT pays 80% of these projects) because a.) it owed New York State millions of dollars loaned for the SciTech Center's construction in the late '80s and the state encouraged SU to upgrade surrounding infrastructure in exchange for loan foregiveness and b.) SU has some good urban policy people who recognize that one-way streets are obsolete. SU saw an easy way to upgrade an ugly part of the campus neighborhood. Nothing to do with charity or symbolic town-gown connections.

The AAU thing is ludicrous, too. Syracuse hasn't got a medical university. That spelled the end of our AAU affiliation and it had nothing to do with Chancy Nancy.

The numbers are bad; they need to improve. Fact is, SU's been admitting a large number of academic low-achievers - from ALL races - for more than 20 years. Hopefully they've hit a low point and will start to improve the numbers. The brand appeal should help. The work to revitalize the city should help, too. The administration knows that no one wants to pay private school tuition to live in a dying Rust Belt town and attend the #62 university in the nation. They want to make this a George Washington-lite, and they're banking on the fact that a culturally reinvigorated city will attract better applicants. It's a good experiment.

 

[Cusee44]

A response piece by SU grads:
http://syracuseengagedgrads.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/hello-world/

 

[cmr27]

<<<"It's a good experiment.">>> Not sure I'd want my kid being part of an "experiment," as in "Oh well, it was an experiment.But my kid gets left holding the bag."

I think one thing everyone agrees is that Cantor's tenure is transformational. I'd be wary of enrolling my kid in a transformational university. I'd probably go with a proven product. Why take a chance on a college education? But that's just me. I'd obviously think differently if I didn't have a choice and this was the only avenue available.

Finally, everyone keeps laughing at WVU, USF and Louisville, but wouldn't those schools say they are serving a similarly-noble mission? Aren't they entitled to that? Why is this so noble and superior compared to their missions? I'm sure I can find WVU and 'Ville students who would write similar letters as the one above. You can throw back SAT scores and entrance standards all you want but that is not the only criteria for success, as the article makes clear and Cantor would clearly agree.

To bring this back to football, I think Syracuse people should rethink their criteria for looking down on other schools in the BE. It would appear that the schools mission, along with its conference alignment, is changing.

PS -- Love the Cornell guy with "The world needs ditch diggers too" comment. Was this an Onion parody?

 

[sutomcat]

It's not a bad piece, but this bugged me: "(This fall the university has helped rip up a one-way street toward the university and made it two-way, as a symbol of connection between the campus and the town.)"

Terribly misleading; SU is funding the street improvements (20% of the street improvements, actually, since the federal DOT pays 80% of these projects) because a.) it owed New York State millions of dollars loaned for the SciTech Center's construction in the late '80s and the state encouraged SU to upgrade surrounding infrastructure in exchange for loan foregiveness and b.) SU has some good urban policy people who recognize that one-way streets are obsolete. SU saw an easy way to upgrade an ugly part of the campus neighborhood. Nothing to do with charity or symbolic town-gown connections.

The AAU thing is ludicrous, too. Syracuse hasn't got a medical university. That spelled the end of our AAU affiliation and it had nothing to do with Chancy Nancy.

The numbers are bad; they need to improve. Fact is, SU's been admitting a large number of academic low-achievers - from ALL races - for more than 20 years. Hopefully they've hit a low point and will start to improve the numbers. The brand appeal should help. The work to revitalize the city should help, too. The administration knows that no one wants to pay private school tuition to live in a dying Rust Belt town and attend the #62 university in the nation. They want to make this a George Washington-lite, and they're banking on the fact that a culturally reinvigorated city will attract better applicants. It's a good experiment.

I thought SU sold the medical school to the state in 1945 and was admitted to the AAU in 1966...

 

[longtimefan]

Great articles which should be discussed in depth somewhere, but wasted on a sports board. No matter how much SU has "perceived" to have fallen in terms of undergraduate/graduate education, it's still an elite academic institution in everything but scientific/medical research in comparison with the likes of WVU, UC, UL, and USF.

It's AAU membership (research) was always questionable in terms of the natural sciences, engineering, and medicine. Areas where the likes of a UC or USF are superior and will remain superior.

Cheers,
Neil

Question Neil:

If Upstate Medical and SUNY-ESF were added to the SU profile, would that improve the SU profile to AAU standards?

 

[omniorange]

Question Neil:

If Upstate Medical and SUNY-ESF were added to the SU profile, would that improve the SU profile to AAU standards?

It would have lifted SU from #100 to the mid 90s (perhaps as high as upper 80s). That would have saved it from being forced out this year, but within 5 years I expect those institutions currently in the 90s and 80s will be "weeded" out as well since the AAU wants to keep its membership in the mid-60s.

On the other hand, if more make a stink about it like UNL, they may not have the stomach for this again for a while.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Millhouse]

Actually, Stonecash may be part of the problem, despite being a "great guy". Examples: Did his data take into consideration any new endowed chairs or faculty positions that may have "freed" up monies that could be spent on needed administrative positions that were probably already lacking for decades? Did he do a comparison of student enrollment increases at other "elite" institutions and compare it to the increase in full-time faculty positions there?

Most faculty I know in education would "kill" to see a 13% increase in full-time faculty positions with only a 20% increase in the student population.

Cheers,
Neil

yeesh, it was just a parenthetical. used to do phone polling for him as a student, that's all

 

[OttoMets]

I thought SU sold the medical school to the state in 1945 and was admitted to the AAU in 1966...

I think that's about right, but that wasn't a criterion in 1966 and it is now.