For all you zone guys...

[LAOrange]

Is there a way to tweak the zone to keep a guy like Hayes from destroying us? Or, do we let the big guys get their points and try and outscore him?

 

[Brooky03]

There's a way... Chukwu.

Oh, you mean this year? No. In fairness, there isn't a way for us to stop big men from doing what they want in m2m either. Although, we did have moderate success being really aggressive with our forwards in ball denial.

 

[Rage4CUSE]

Yeah, I don't believe Dajuan was recruited for his defense as much as it was his offensive game, so we should have never expected him to be a stalwart on defense. Then our true backup center has the skills of a 2* recruit. And out actual back up center is a stretch 4 true freshman who is skinny for even the 4 position. Our defense doesn't really stand a chance in stopping good-great centers. We are going to have to hope we can out shoot those teams.

 

[orangefan13]

I think we have overemphasize negative things and temper the positive way to much the last few years.

Lydon and Obokoh are skinny they are going to get sealed off. Try to keep them out of the low post..

Duke and UNC destroyed us inside last year wisconsin and gtown won with inside play but did not.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I liked our defense in the second half when we were more aggressive. I think this team has the ability to pressure other teams. I don't think playing a passive zone plays to our strengths this year.

 

[Jeremy L.]

The best you can really do is front the big man while playing defense. or have our 5 (Coleman, Lydon, whoever else) step up in the zone a bit to make those passing lanes smaller. That's why a majority of Boeheim's players have long wingspans.

If the opposing on the block that leaves the corner wide open unless if you just have your center front but obviously leaves under the basket wide open for a guard to drive. If he's at the high post, center should just step up and the guys on the wing drop down if a man drives to stop interior passing.

 

[stuckinbig11]

I would try to stop the entry pass by having the guy in the middle sag down more (with an arm raised high) when someone like Hayes enters the lane. It frustrates the heck out them if they can't get the ball. But then, it has been a long time since I played.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

There's a way... Chukwu.

Oh, you mean this year? No. In fairness, there isn't a way for us to stop big men from doing what they want in m2m either. Although, we did have moderate success being really aggressive with our forwards in ball denial.

But, in m2m, don't you have Options? Front him. Play behind him. Double team him upon the catch... In a zone, the ball does all the work and the big stiff just has to BE somewhere. In m2m, he's gotta do some work. This guy averaged 10.5 points in his other games this year. Doubled that against us. Averaged only 7.5 attempts per game. Got 12 against us.

Sure, any one player can get hot against any team and have a career day. But, we see a lot of career days against us. Usually from the outside, but too often from some schmuck without much real talent. The ball does the work, and the schmuck just has to be shot-competent.

I imagine this was common to all youth/CYO leagues, but when I was a kid, other teams' coaches would always have a scheme where one kid would just be deadly from one spot on the floor. He wouldn't shoot from anywhere else. That's all he would even practice. And they'd pass the ball around us in our zone, and eventually it would find its way to that kid at the elbow and he'd be halfway into shooting position as he caught it. And he'd light us up. Simplest thing in the world. If you payed him one on one, he couldn't do jack. But in that limited 'robot role,' he was all world.

Hayes scored 4 points against Wisconsin and 2 against duke...

 

[Brooky03]

But, in m2m, don't you have Options? Front him. Play behind him. Double team him upon the catch... In a zone, the ball does all the work and the big stiff just has to BE somewhere. In m2m, he's gotta do some work. This guy averaged 10.5 points in his other games this year. Doubled that against us. Averaged only 7.5 attempts per game. Got 12 against us.

Sure, any one player can get hot against any team and have a career day. But, we see a lot of career days against us. Usually from the outside, but too often from some schmuck without much real talent. The ball does the work, and the schmuck just has to be shot-competent.

I imagine this was common to all youth/CYO leagues, but when I was a kid, other teams' coaches would always have a scheme where one kid would just be deadly from one spot on the floor. He wouldn't shoot from anywhere else. That's all he would even practice. And they'd pass the ball around us in our zone, and eventually it would find its way to that kid at the elbow and he'd be halfway into shooting position as he caught it. And he'd light us up. Simplest thing in the world. If you payed him one on one, he couldn't do jack. But in that limited 'robot role,' he was all world.

Hayes scored 4 points against Wisconsin and 2 against duke...

Centers in the zone are basically playing m2m against the other center. Those options that exists in m2m exist in our zone (not all zones). Lydon can't push anybody away from the basket, so they'd get the same looks they're getting without having to do any extra work. Coleman can push them out but we don't want him chasing anybody around more than 8 feet from the hoop, so a center with a jumper would kill us. We're going to have to rely on rim protection by committee this season, which I think is easier to do out of the zone.

 

[General20]

Ive always thought that the biggest weakness of playing zone is that you can't hide a weak defender as well. In this case we have two really weak defenders in Richardson and Lydon (when they play forward and center respectively).

The zone we play is adjustable, and I think we have done a pretty good job tweaking it in the last few games, but the only real answer is Coleman earning more minutes.

Ive said since the beginning of the season that our best defensive line up (and our best overall line up) is Gbinije, Cooney, Lydon, Roberson, Coleman. Right now we don't play that line up much because Coleman can only play 15 or so minutes a game and its not a good idea to play he and Lydon much together. But that line up is the closest thing we have to an answer to this problem.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Ive always thought that the biggest weakness of playing zone is that you can't hide a weak defender as well. In this case we have two really weak defenders in Richardson and Lydon (when they play forward and center respectively).

The zone we play is adjustable, and I think we have done a pretty good job tweaking it in the last few games, but the only real answer is Coleman earning more minutes.

Ive said since the beginning of the season that our best defensive line up (and our best overall line up) is Gbinije, Cooney, Lydon, Roberson, Coleman. Right now we don't play that line up much because Coleman can only play 15 or so minutes a game and its not a good idea to play he and Lydon much together. But that line up is the closest thing we have to an answer to this problem.

Agreed. I think that backline is the best way to compete against bigger teams. I don't think Richardson on the wing on the baseline is a good long term solution to our defensive and rebounding issues.

 

[tbonezone]

if you have 4 guards and a pf on the floor best be pressuring ball . not sitting back in a zone getting abused underneath.

 

[sugrad68]

We have very few options when playing defense against a team with an average, not even good, center, or PF. Coleman simply can't move quickly. Lydon does not have, at this time, the bulk to really be an effective center or PF. Richardson is a shooting guard playing forward and is a liability on defense no matter where he plays. Gbinije is a good rebounder but has not been effective yet in that role. I'm not sure if there is an answer to the team's primary problem. But I will keep hoping.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Centers in the zone are basically playing m2m against the other center. Those options that exists in m2m exist in our zone (not all zones). Lydon can't push anybody away from the basket, so they'd get the same looks they're getting without having to do any extra work. Coleman can push them out but we don't want him chasing anybody around more than 8 feet from the hoop, so a center with a jumper would kill us. We're going to have to rely on rim protection by committee this season, which I think is easier to do out of the zone.

"Centers in the zone are basically playing m2m against the other center."
That's what one would typically think/expect/hope for, but just yesterday, on one of the earliest possessions, DC ended up having to cover a deep corner jumper. The rotation left it unguarded, and he went flying out of bounds, past the shooter in that corner. Which has two negative effects. For one thing, in m2m, a guy defending a jump shot rarely is so far away from his man that he's got to travel so far and with so much momentum that he flies so far past the offensive player. Usually, the defender is jumping straight up. Secondly, when a post player is moving toward the corner and OOB, a prime rebounder is completely out of the picture.

Just one specific example that I recall with my feeble memory, but as it happened, I realized it was related to this thread. Happens all the time, though, and it doesn't really matter to me if its the C position. If it's Roberson similarly out of position as a result, that's perhaps more damaging.

 

[PoppyHart]

"Centers in the zone are basically playing m2m against the other center."
That's what one would typically think/expect/hope for, but just yesterday, on one of the earliest possessions, DC ended up having to cover a deep corner jumper. The rotation left it unguarded, and he went flying out of bounds, past the shooter in that corner. Which has two negative effects. For one thing, in m2m, a guy defending a jump shot rarely is so far away from his man that he's got to travel so far and with so much momentum that he flies so far past the offensive player. Usually, the defender is jumping straight up. Secondly, when a post player is moving toward the corner and OOB, a prime rebounder is completely out of the picture.

Just one specific example that I recall with my feeble memory, but as it happened, I realized it was related to this thread. Happens all the time, though, and it doesn't really matter to me if its the C position. If it's Roberson similarly out of position as a result, that's perhaps more damaging.

I'd say there's a third negative effect. Some poor soul in the front row is gonna get plowed over by a 270 pound bull.