For Gosh sake find someone else to return punts and KO's

[Alsacs]

I guess we need Ryan "Fair Catch" Howard returning punts. You put speed/playmakers out there as much as possible. We likely don't win the Texas Bowl without Estime returning that punt 60+ yards against Minnesota.

Injuries are part of the game. We are lucky this doesn't appearance serious. I love seeing playmakers returning kicks/punts.

 

[TheCusian]

I guess we need Ryan "Fair Catch" Howard returning punts. You put speed/playmakers out there as much as possible. We likely don't win the Texas Bowl without Estime returning that punt 60+ yards against Minnesota. Injuries are part of the game. We are lucky this doesn't appearance serious. I love seeing playmakers returning kicks/punts.

I don't think he's the playmaker role in this case. I think he's the Steve "Fair Catch" Ishmael due to his sure hands.

Coach SS said they like two guys (returner and just make the catch guy).

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Longest Punt Returns:
1. 95 TD Floyd Little vs. Pittsburgh 10/30/1965
2. 94 TD Marvin Harrison vs. Minnesota 9/23/1995
3. 91 TD Floyd Little vs. Penn State 10/16/1965
4. 90 TD Floyd Little vs. UCLA 10/10/1964
5. 85 TD Jamel Riddle at Auburn 9/28/2002
6. 84 TD Quinton Spotwood at Oklahoma 9/6/1997
7. 80 TD Greg Allen vs. Arizona 11/8/1969
7. 80 TD Scott Schwedes at Virginia Tech 9/28/1985
7. 80 TD Scott Schwedes vs. Navy 11/8/1986
7. 80 TD Quinton Spotwood vs. ECU 10/4/1997

Most Punts returned for TD's (Career):
1. 6 Floyd Little 1964-66
2. 4 Quinton Spotwood 1996-99
3. 3 Scott Schwedes 1983-86
4. 2 Marvin Harrison 1992-95

Most Punts Returned (Career):
1. 82 Scott Schwedes 1983-86
2. 70 Ed Koban 1980-83
2. 70 Shelby Hill 1990-93
4. 68 Quinton Spotwood 1996-99
5. 57 Tommy Myers 1969-71
6. 56 Ritchy Desir 2011-14
7. 51 Jamel Riddle 2000-02
8. 44 Art Monk 1976-79
9. 43 Floyd Little 1964-66
9. 43 Marvin Harrison 1992-95

 

[Alsacs]

I thought Spotwood had an 80+ yarder against Pitt in the mid 90's. It was a game at the old Pitt Stadium my parents dragged me there as a youngster. I thought Spotwood won a game with a long return it must have been a KO.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Longest Punt Returns:
1. 95 TD Floyd Little vs. Pittsburgh 10/30/1965
2. 94 TD Marvin Harrison vs. Minnesota 9/23/1995
3. 91 TD Floyd Little vs. Penn State 10/16/1965
4. 90 TD Floyd Little vs. UCLA 10/10/1964
5. 85 TD Jamel Riddle at Auburn 9/28/2002
6. 84 TD Quinton Spotwood at Oklahoma 9/6/1997
7. 80 TD Greg Allen vs. Arizona 11/8/1969
7. 80 TD Scott Schwedes at Virginia Tech 9/28/1985
7. 80 TD Scott Schwedes vs. Navy 11/8/1986
7. 80 TD Quinton Spotwood vs. ECU 10/4/1997

Most Punts returned for TD's (Career):
1. 6 Floyd Little 1964-66
2. 4 Quinton Spotwood 1996-99
3. 3 Scott Schwedes 1983-86
4. 2 Marvin Harrison 1992-95

Most Punts Returned (Career):
1. 82 Scott Schwedes 1983-86
2. 70 Ed Koban 1980-83
2. 70 Shelby Hill 1990-93
4. 68 Quinton Spotwood 1996-99
5. 57 Tommy Myers 1969-71
6. 56 Ritchy Desir 2011-14
7. 51 Jamel Riddle 2000-02
8. 44 Art Monk 1976-79
9. 43 Floyd Little 1964-66
9. 43 Marvin Harrison 1992-95

Floyd freaking Little!!! Man I wish I was around to see him play.

 

[SUATO92]

That is good news. Lets look at some stats to decide the value of the punt returner. In an average college football game there are 11 total punts so lets say on the high end 6 per team. Out of those 5-6 opportunities about 25% will result in a fair catch. So at best in a perfect game the PR team has 3-4 chances at a return each game. Again the risk reward just isnt there. Take a look at how many #1NFL receivers return punts.

Let's see...in a time when people are questioning the very future of this staff you are suggesting that they not go all in on every possession. They could go with lesser talent on returns and find themselves on the unemployment line. This is football...risk exists with every play. I'm happy that they are pushing all their chips to the center of the table to make this a successful year.

 

[PhatOrange]

i like having the best players play. if Ish is the best player returning punts then he gets the job and you roll the dice.

personally, he doesn't strike me as quick enough or fast enough to be a good return man once he catches it. i like the explosive players, the brisley types.

on the surface, by having him do it, seems like they're valuing the catching part over the returning part. less risk, less reward? it's conservative.

 

[rocklloyd]

What about Richie Rene? Does he have any eligibility left?

Richie dene might as well.

 

[JoeCollege]

Surely there's a whiz-bang returner on this roster to provide a spark. Been a long time since we've had a whiz-bang player of any kind up on the Hill.

 

[money3189]

We'll have a return guy and a "safe" guy. I'd bet we're looking for a guy who catches everything after making the fair catch signal.

Bingo

 

[anomander]

I am perfectly fine with having your best guys returning punts, even if they are starters. The problem for me is I don't even think Ish would be in the top 4 or 5 in terms of best PR's, so what the hell is he doing back there?

Estime
Erv
Strickland
Hell even the RS Hill

If Ish was clearly the best returner, and their was more depth at WR, then have at it. Just seems a bit too risky for me, especially when the reason he is back there isn't to actually return punts, but basically will be the designated fair catch "returnerner".

 

[TheCusian]

I am perfectly fine with having your best guys returning punts, even if they are starters. The problem for me is I don't even think Ish would be in the top 4 or 5 in terms of best PR's, so what the hell is he doing back there? Estime Erv Strickland Hell even the RS Hill If Ish was clearly the best returner, and their was more depth at WR, then have at it. Just seems a bit too risky for me, especially when the reason he is back there isn't to actually return punts, but basically will be the designated fair catch "returnerner".

How many fair catch situations end up in injury though?

Higher prob of a muff with a guy who can't catch than a guy who can who calls fair catch then gets injured.

 

[Scooch]

Far be it from me to interject a plea for analysis into this debate, but is there evidence that suggests punt returners are injured at an abnormally high rate?

If not, well then it's football. Players can be catastrophically injured on every snap. Intentionally keeping playmakers off the field when they could be, you know, making plays, in the name of "protecting" them seems like a fool's errand.

 

[Rocco]

There is no need to worry about this IMO. SS knows what he's doing and he certainly isn't being a meathead about this either.

We should be more impressed with Riley Dixon's 75 yarder. Now that is boss.

 

[Millhouse]

Far be it from me to interject a plea for analysis into this debate, but is there evidence that suggests punt returners are injured at an abnormally high rate?

If not, well then it's football. Players can be catastrophically injured on every snap. Intentionally keeping playmakers off the field when they could be, you know, making plays, in the name of "protecting" them seems like a fool's errand.

along those same lines, what is the net benefit to returning punts? if someone wants to punt it to you, it makes sense to just let them. punt returns are pretty rare. throw in penalties and turnovers

maybe i'm biased because i watch the bills draft so many guys thinking about their punt returning ability (roscoe parrish, leodis mckelvin). wade phillips got blasted for calling a guy a punt catcher when maybe that's all you need

 

[Alsacs]

along those same lines, what is the net benefit to returning punts? if someone wants to punt it to you, it makes sense to just let them. punt returns are pretty rare. throw in penalties and turnovers

maybe i'm biased because i watch the bills draft so many guys thinking about their punt returning ability (roscoe parrish, leodis mckelvin). wade phillips got blasted for calling a guy a punt catcher when maybe that's all you need

It is pretty simple put a person who can catch the punt and if there is no room fair catch the ball.
Simply ignoring the potential of a punt return automatically can cost you yards that can make the difference in scoring points. This idea to simply just take the ball can make you go on longer fields and with the offense we have seen recently we need shorter fields.

 

[TheCusian]

It is pretty simple put a person who can catch the punt and if there is no room fair catch the ball. Simply ignoring the potential of a punt return automatically can cost you yards that can make the difference in scoring points. This idea to simply just take the ball can make you go on longer fields and with the offense we have seen recently we need shorter fields.

I actually think the right position is right down the middle of what your both saying - and it's what Shafer did last year.

You have two guys a returner (Estime/Walkon-Jet-Guy) and a guy with good hands who knows how to waive for a fair catch. In many scenarios, Shafer elects to have the hands guy in (backed up). If the other team is pinned deep you have your return guy in (Minny Golden Rodents).

 

[Millhouse]

1.15 % of punts get recovered by punting team in the NFL. on pass or runs, fumbles are lost .83% of the time

you're 39% more likely to fumble a punt return than you are by running a play. and it's a fumble where the kicking team picks up a lot of yards at once

 

[suloyalfan]

Reading the article on Ish banging his knee trying to field a punt at practice makes me question the coaches. What the heck are we doing taking our top O player and putting him at high risk as a punt returner. Give that position to a frosh running back, second teamer, anyone other than the best WR we have had in years. ing meat head move that needs to be questioned.

Two words from last season... Jamison Crowder. That game against Duke turned on a dime with one punt return. Before that punt return, there was hope for an upset win. After, the game was over.

In my opinion you put the best punt returner and kickoff returner you have back there. Field position and big plays on special teams matter, especially in the case of our team where yards on offense have been tough to come by (the offense needs all the help they can get with starting field position).

 

[SUFan44]

1.15 % of punts get recovered by punting team in the NFL. on pass or runs, fumbles are lost .83% of the time

you're 39% more likely to fumble a punt return than you are by running a play. and it's a fumble where the kicking team picks up a lot of yards at once

Spotwood absolutely changed games when he was in that position. I think this is one area where NFL and college differs greatly, especially with the makeup of punt return and kickoff return teams. Most of those guys out there are redshirt freshmen/younger guys.

If you can gain an advantage by having a stud out there, I say it's worth the risk.

 

[Millhouse]

Spotwood absolutely changed games when he was in that position. I think this is one area where NFL and college differs greatly, especially with the makeup of punt return and kickoff return teams. Most of those guys out there are redshirt freshmen/younger guys.

If you can gain an advantage by having a stud out there, I say it's worth the risk.

on the other hand, if you don't have a stud out there, just play it safe and take the ball. part of my view on this is if i'm really annoyed when we punt the ball away, i'm perfectly happy to to just take the ball. i don't have any good numbers on this. it seems like there are so many penalties on punt returns that it partially offsets yards you can pick up and it's a little more likely that you fumble.

 

[Finwad32]

If you told a coach that he could catch every punt all season and never have a muff or a penalty to extend the other team's drive, with no return, I'd think more often than not they would accept that up front.

A return is bonus. The punt return avg. # that most coaches aim for is 10 yards per return. An exceptional return man will put up more than that. Obviously their averages will be skewed by long returns.

The main objective is to take over possession.

 

[SWC75]

on the other hand, if you don't have a stud out there, just play it safe and take the ball. part of my view on this is if i'm really annoyed when we punt the ball away, i'm perfectly happy to to just take the ball. i don't have any good numbers on this. it seems like there are so many penalties on punt returns that it partially offsets yards you can pick up and it's a little more likely that you fumble.

When an offense is struggling, as ours usually is, it seems strange not to view a kick return as a chance for a big offensive play. if we had a cosnsistently productive offense, I'd be more will to see it as just a change of possessions. Big kick returns can be HUGE plays in a football game.