For the First Time I Feel Sorry for Jim Boeheim

[Col. Bleep]

The Syracuse University administration really dished out a facial.

According to the Post Standard, the timeline for SU's bolt to the ACC is:

ACC decides to expand on Tuesday.
ACC contacts Nancy Cantor on Wednesday.
She gets back to them on Thursday and has discussion with Swofford.
The Executive Committee of SU's Board of Trustees approves the move on Friday.
Cantor discusses the move with Boeheim on Saturday.
(Unclear if this occurred before or after Cantor had heard the ACC accepted SU's application.
Also not clear if this is the first time Boeheim actually was told of the mercurial move).

IF that timeline is correct, then:

The Chancellor first discussed the move with the basketball coach AFTER THE FACT.
It was already a fait accompli.
She saw no need to get his input BEFORE SU okayed the move.

For better or worse, Jim Boeheim is the face of Syracuse University.
He's likely the highest paid university employee.
But after 35 years as head coach, his input was deemed irrelevant before a move like this.
He was told what was going to happen, whether he liked it or not.
In other words, when you get right down to it, he was treated like a nobody.
Very classy.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/09/home_away_from_the_dome_syracu.html

 

[sufan]

The Syracuse University administration really dished out a facial.

According to the Post Standard, the timeline for SU's bolt to the ACC is:

ACC decides to expand on Tuesday.
ACC contacts Nancy Cantor on Wednesday.
She gets back to them on Thursday and has discussion with Swofford.
The Executive Committee of SU's Board of Trustees approves the move on Friday.
Cantor discusses the move with Boeheim on Saturday.
(Unclear if this occurred before or after Cantor had heard the ACC accepted SU's application.
Also not clear if this is the first time Boeheim actually was told of the mercurial move).

IF that timeline is correct, then:

The Chancellor first discussed the move with the basketball coach AFTER THE FACT.
It was already a fait accompli.
She saw no need to get his input BEFORE SU okayed the move.

For better or worse, Jim Boeheim is the face of Syracuse University.
He's likely the highest paid university employee.
But after 35 years as head coach, his input was deemed irrelevant before a move like this.
He was told what was going to happen, whether he liked it or not.
In other words, when you get right down to it, he was treated like a nobody.
Very classy.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/09/home_away_from_the_dome_syracu.html

------------------

The decision was made in 2003. SU wanted to move to the ACC.

Are you suggesting that Dr. G and the Chancellor were not aware of Coach B's views in great detail from scheduling to recruiting to rivalries and on and on. Or that Coach B lacked an opportunity to express his views?

What makes you think he was "treated like a nobody"?

The decision and responsibility to accept the invitation was a University decision: not the decision of the BB coach.

And this was obviously not a hasty decision.

Last year the Big 10 expansion was front page news for many months.

This year the issue of conference expansion has been front page news for seemingly forever. The ACC supposedly was contacted by more than 10 schools expressing interest.

 

[obliterata]

As far as conference affiliation is concerned, coaches are irrelevant though I wonder when Marrone found out about the move.

 

[orange79]

He's likely the highest paid university employee.

Like it or not. 'Face' of the university or not. Highest paid or not. He is an employee of the university. He is paid to coach basketball. He is not 'management'. I took crap for posting this opinion when the whole move went down. Not sure why. Although I can see it going both ways. Maybe he knew before, maybe he didn't. We don't know for sure if the P-S is correct. If it is, I can see why Cantor may have held off until after it was a done deal. JB popped off about the move, before backtracking a bit. I can see why she wouldn't want him speaking publicly before the deal was done. All due respect to JB, whereas Cantor could keep info from him, she probably can't keep him from speaking his mind.

 

[Moontan]

The Chancellor first discussed the move with the basketball coach AFTER THE FACT.
It was already a fait accompli.
She saw no need to get his input BEFORE SU okayed the move.

As TGD has stated before, he and JAB have discusses these scenarios over the years. They knew each other's positions very well. JAB is also a university guy and would support whatever was best for the university overall.

The only surprise for JAB (and everyone else) was the timing... not the fact that the University would make the move if it presented itself.

 

[SkanSU]

Hmmmmm ... let's see, How much does JB get paid from SU? He will coach whether SU is in BE or in ACC and will still be pulling down the big bucks. Let's make an analogy here. If I was working for Company A and the Board of Directors and the CEO of my Company decide that by merging with Company B will make more money will they come and ask me my opinion before they merge. I think not.

 

[arbitragegls]

...and the point here is what...this is not an athletic decision it is a university administration decision. It may have been nice to have included JB in what was taking place...but his comments would not have made the outcome different.

Although I am a bit saddened leaving the BE, and all that it is not; I am rather pleased to be in the ACC...it is a better conference and schools within the conference have so much more in common with 'Cuse from an all sports playing to academics.

I suggest we move on...and stop bringing up negatives when most believe that this was a really good move; otherwise we could be like Uconn, Rutgirls and WVU wondering why not me....

 

[stuckinbig11]

JB said early on that he is not the one running the University. He may not have been happy with the news or the way things went down, but he also knew that it was not his decision to make.

 

[Cuseman78]

The Syracuse University administration really dished out a facial.

According to the Post Standard, the timeline for SU's bolt to the ACC is:

ACC decides to expand on Tuesday.
ACC contacts Nancy Cantor on Wednesday.
She gets back to them on Thursday and has discussion with Swofford.
The Executive Committee of SU's Board of Trustees approves the move on Friday.
Cantor discusses the move with Boeheim on Saturday.
(Unclear if this occurred before or after Cantor had heard the ACC accepted SU's application.
Also not clear if this is the first time Boeheim actually was told of the mercurial move).

IF that timeline is correct, then:

The Chancellor first discussed the move with the basketball coach AFTER THE FACT.
It was already a fait accompli.
She saw no need to get his input BEFORE SU okayed the move.

For better or worse, Jim Boeheim is the face of Syracuse University.
He's likely the highest paid university employee.
But after 35 years as head coach, his input was deemed irrelevant before a move like this.
He was told what was going to happen, whether he liked it or not.
In other words, when you get right down to it, he was treated like a nobody.
Very classy.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/09/home_away_from_the_dome_syracu.html

You wanted the Chancellor to discuss a high-level University decision with the basketball coach? I'll just hope you are kidding.

 

[fanfanclubclub]

You wanted the Chancellor to discuss a high-level University decision with the basketball coach? I'll just hope you are kidding.

JB is a big asset. In the entertainment business (and that's what "conference realignment" is all about), even the bosses and top execs consult their biggest assets ("the talent") regarding paradigmatic changes to the business. That's why JB was consulted about this issue for years and years and years. This thread is much ado about nothing: JB was consulted plenty, and it is perfectly reasonable that he would be.

 

[dash-30-dash]

No it's not. JB is a basketball coach. This is way above him. It is about strategic vision for the entire school. Cripes. Should she have talked to desko as well?

 

[orange79]

No it's not. JB is a basketball coach. This is way above him. It is about strategic vision for the entire school. Cripes. Should she have talked to desko as well?

What about Jing Pu? No input from him either?

 

[rstone7727]

I think it's likely it was discussed in meetings (not necessarily chaired by Cantor) with all the coaches as well as others at the University way back when. I think for sure at least the coaches knew that if we had the opportunity to get into the ACC we would probably take it. I have to believe they speak to each other also.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

You wanted the Chancellor to discuss a high-level University decision with the basketball coach? I'll just hope you are kidding.

Of course not... Cantor knowledge of sports is way beyond JB's. Why would she actually want any valuable input from the people that are the most knowledgeable about it? This is totally about sports so why ask the sports people?

 

[DeGrozz]

It's like JB said on PTI, the Steinbrenners didn't ask Joe Torre if they should start getting ready for a new stadium.

Coaches coach, administrators administrate.

 

[Rossco123]

Last I checked this was SU changing Sports Conferences. If you are going to make the business analogy, you are looking at a board and CEO of a company making very diverse products. A decision to change the entire business model of a division without consulting the effected managers would be just nuts.

 

[Cuseman78]

Of course not... Cantor knowledge of sports is way beyond JB's. Why would she actually want any valuable input from the people that are the most knowledgeable about it? This is totally about sports so why ask the sports people?

You haven't a clue -- and if you think this is TOTALLY about athletics, you are also mistaken (especially when it comes to University presidents). And if its about any sport in particular, its about football. So I'm sure Doug Marrone was on the conference call along with Boeheim, Cantor, and Swofford. Some of you people scare me. I knew about this before Boeheim did.

 

[Niastri]

Please explain what conference affiliation is OTHER than sports? Use as many CAPITALS for emphasis as you need.

 

[hobbit88]

Not sure about this, as hard info seems to be sketchy here.

But as a Tar Heel fan on the outside looking in at your situation, I seriously doubt that leadership in Chapel Hill would make a decision to leave the ACC without conferring with Roy Williams, even though football revenue is the deciding factor. And you can bet your bottom dollar if this were taking place 20 years ago, there is Absolutely No Way such a move would be considered without input from Dean Smith, who established Carolina as one of the Top Five heavyweight programs in college basketball.

Seems to me that consulting Boeheim before any public announcement was made would be the least courtesy that his long affiliation with Syracuse deserves.

And, courtesy decency and decorum aside, it's the superior job Boeheim has done over the years that's filled your arena with ticket-paying fans. I wonder how many (literally) millions of dollars Syracuse has received over the years under Boeheim, that it would NOT have received with a .500 W/L record basketball coach at the helm?

Can you imagine Duke's leadership unilaterally deciding to leave the ACC and announcing what they'd done to Ratface after the fact?

Dick Vitale would have an aneurysm live and in color on worldwide ESPN when word of that got out.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Not sure about this, as hard info seems to be sketchy here.

But as a Tar Heel fan on the outside looking in at your situation, I seriously doubt that leadership in Chapel Hill would make a decision to leave the ACC without conferring with Roy Williams, even though football revenue is the deciding factor. And you can bet your bottom dollar if this were taking place 20 years ago, there is Absolutely No Way such a move would be considered without input from Dean Smith, who established Carolina as one of the Top Five heavyweight programs in college basketball.

Seems to me that consulting Boeheim before any public announcement was made would be the least courtesy that his long affiliation with Syracuse deserves.

And, courtesy decency and decorum aside, it's the superior job Boeheim has done over the years that's filled your arena with ticket-paying fans. I wonder how many (literally) millions of dollars Syracuse has received over the years under Boeheim, that it would NOT have received with a .500 W/L record basketball coach at the helm?

Can you imagine Duke's leadership unilaterally deciding to leave the ACC and announcing what they'd done to Ratface after the fact?

Dick Vitale would have an aneurysm live and in color on worldwide ESPN when word of that got out.

Exactly.
(Although I would refer to him as K rather than the endearing monicker other ACC fans give him).

The unstated point in my original posting is that I don't believe the stated timeline accurately reflects the involvement of Boeheim and Marrone.
It would be irrational as well as insulting not to seek their input BEFORE THE FACT.
Especially so for Boeheim.
So, the next question is, why would the Chancellor put that timeline out there?

 

[pfister1]

Exactly.
(Although I would refer to him as K rather than the endearing monicker other ACC fans give him).

The unstated point in my original posting is that I don't believe the stated timeline accurately reflects the involvement of Boeheim and Marrone.
It would be irrational as well as insulting not to seek their input BEFORE THE FACT.
Especially so for Boeheim.
So, the next question is, why would the Chancellor put that timeline out there?

This is stupid and continues to ignore the fact that the timeline on this decision didn't start on Tuesday when the ACC decided to (again) expand.

It started a long time ago, as others have said. It started back in 2003 when the ACC took Miami, Va Tech and BC and left us behind. It has continued to be a significant issue up until the present. If the University had been sitting on its hands since 2003 not discussing all of the various scenarios that could play out then there is a serious lack of leadership on the Hill. I think the fact that SU could convene a meeting of the Board of Trustees and arrive at a decision on this issue in such a short period of time tells you that it has been discussed ad nauseum on the Hill before the Post Standard's timeline.

The fact that Cantor discussed the decision with JB on Saturday is recognition of JB's status at SU. I would be willing to bet that most, if not all, of the other coaches got calls from DG, not Nancy.

 

[orange79]

This is stupid and continues to ignore the fact that the timeline on this decision didn't start on Tuesday when the ACC decided to (again) expand.

It started a long time ago, as others have said. It started back in 2003 when the ACC took Miami, Va Tech and BC and left us behind. It has continued to be a significant issue up until the present. If the University had been sitting on its hands since 2003 not discussing all of the various scenarios that could play out then there is a serious lack of leadership on the Hill. I think the fact that SU could convene a meeting of the Board of Trustees and arrive at a decision on this issue in such a short period of time tells you that it has been discussed ad nauseum on the Hill before the Post Standard's timeline.

The fact that Cantor discussed the decision with JB on Saturday is recognition of JB's status at SU. I would be willing to bet that most, if not all, of the other coaches got calls from DG, not Nancy.

And, as you state, it started back in 2003. I don't believe that JB was ignored or kept in the dark for 8 years. He knew that if we got an offer, we were gone. I have 100% faith in that. This was just a courtesy from the Chancellor.

 

[tbonezone]

"This is stupid and continues to ignore the fact that the timeline on this decision didn't start on Tuesday when the ACC decided to (again) expand.

It started a long time ago, as others have said. It started back in 2003 when the ACC took Miami, Va Tech and BC and left us behind. It has continued to be a significant issue up until the present. If the University had been sitting on its hands since 2003 "

yes indeed BE hoops has sucked since 2003...

 

[Col. Bleep]

This is stupid and continues to ignore the fact that the timeline on this decision didn't start on Tuesday when the ACC decided to (again) expand.

It started a long time ago, as others have said. It started back in 2003 when the ACC took Miami, Va Tech and BC and left us behind. It has continued to be a significant issue up until the present. If the University had been sitting on its hands since 2003 not discussing all of the various scenarios that could play out then there is a serious lack of leadership on the Hill. I think the fact that SU could convene a meeting of the Board of Trustees and arrive at a decision on this issue in such a short period of time tells you that it has been discussed ad nauseum on the Hill before the Post Standard's timeline.

The fact that Cantor discussed the decision with JB on Saturday is recognition of JB's status at SU. I would be willing to bet that most, if not all, of the other coaches got calls from DG, not Nancy.

Gee...ya think?
And ya think no one told him that the offer was on the table?
So why would the Chancellor create the timeline she did?
Why would the administration try to insulate Jim Boeheim from this decision?

 

[sufan]

Gee...ya think?
And ya think no one told him that the offer was on the table?
So why would the Chancellor create the timeline she did?
Why would the administration try to insulate Jim Boeheim from this decision?

------------------

Lot of assumptions, but the answer is simple: this was a University decision that was made a long, long, long, long time ago, that benefited from ongoing input from the AD and the coaches, and yes coach B, but the decision was not Coach B's to make.

Apparently the invitation came suddenly: at that point the only concern was to get the deal done.

The debate was over years ago, and certainly last year when the Big 10 expanded in a multi-month process, and again this year when the SEC expanded with A&M. The ACC had received 10 or more inquiries.