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Message: [QUOTE="SWC75, post: 982332, member: 289"] People are already starting to speculate about next year’s team. We will lose CJ Fair and Baye Moussa Keita. Will we have Tyler Ennis and Jerami Grant? There was some speculation on the radio about what it would have been like if all our players stayed for four years. Of course, every other school could wonder about the same thing but it certainly gets you to thinking about the subject. I’m focusing only one guys who jumped to the NBA before their eligibility was up. PEARL WASHINGTON Our first “jumper” was Pearl Washington who would have been on the 1986-87 shoulda been a national championship team. Of course, Sherman Douglas inherited pearl’s point guard spot and began his own legend. He had played behind the Pearl in 1985-86 and did pretty darn well: Pearl Washington 32.2m 21.5p 3.1r 9.7a 3.2s 0.0b 37.5+ 7.3mfg 1.8mft 4.1to 3.4pf 16.6- = 20.9NP 12.4OE 8.5FG Sherman Douglas 11.4m 19.0p 4.3r 7.4a 4.3s 0.7b 35.7+ 4.7mfg 1.7mft 4.3to 4.3pf 15.0- = 20.7NP 12.6OE 8.1FG The General was even more commanding when he got tossed the keys in 1986-87: Sherman Douglas32.6m 21.3p 3.1r 9.3a 2.1s 0.2b 36.0+ 7.0mfg 1.7mft 3.9to 2.3pf 14.9- = 21.1NP 12.6OE 8.5FG We’d be in good shape with either one of them at the helm. We’d have more depth with both. Could they have somehow played together? I think they could have meshed their skills, even alternated controlling the ball. But you wonder if egos might have gotten in the way and neither was a consistently long-range shooter, which the under-rated Greg Monroe was: Greg Monroe31.0m 16.6p 3.2r 5.2a 1.5s 0.0b 25.0+ 6.4mfg 0.6mft 1.8to 1.7pf 10.5- = 14.5NP 9.6OE 4.9FG Maybe the three of them would have formed a triumvirate, like Jardine-Triche-Waiters in 2011-2012. Would we have been remarkably better? Probably not. If the Pearl and the General each wanted their own ball, they might have been worse. But they just needed two more points to become a national champion. Could the Pearl have provided those two points? Might he have demanded the ball after Smart’s shot and dribbled the length of the court to score? It would have been just like him to do that. BILLY OWENS Bill left after his junior year in 1990-91 when he’d led the team to their first out-right Big East regular season title, (and our last for two decades). Unfortunately the season ended with our only double one and done: We blew a 16 point lead against a 15-13 Villanova team in the BET and then a shell-shocked team lost to Richmond in the NCAAs a week later. But that team still wound up 26-6 and ranked #7(writer’s)/8 (coaches) and the only other significant loss was LeRon Ellis. Dave Johnson and Adrian Autry were back, as was Mike Hopkins. And Conrad McRae would move from being a back-up center to the starter. And a freshman named Lawrence Moten was about to join the team. But Moten only got his chance to start because of the absence of Owens. He certainly would have made an interesting sixth man. Instead he became the star, (with Dave Johnson) of the 1991-92 team that went 22-10, 10-8 in the conference and lost to John Calipari’s first really good UMASS team, 71-77 in overtime, in the NCAAs, (helped by a bad out of bounds call in the final seconds of regulation that the refs later apologized for). That was the first of the pretty good teams of the90’s we had to get used to after “Raw Recruits”, the Post Standard series, the NCAA investigation and the probation that hit us for the 1992-93 season. But with Billy, it would have been the last of the “powerhouse” teams of the 1985-91 period: 1985-86 26-6, 9th ranked; 1986-87 31-7 3rd; 1987-88 26-9, 9th; 1988-89 30-8 7th; 1989-90 26-7 6th; 1990-91 26-6 7th 1991-92 22-10 21st; 1992-93 20-9, unranked; 1993-94 23-7 15th; 1994-95 20-10, 25th 1995-96 29-9 15th; 1996-97 19-13 unranked; 1997-98 26-9 20th; 1998-99 21-12 20th Lawrence Moten in 1992-92: 33.8m 21.6p 7.1r 2.3a 1.7s 1.3b +34.0 7.2mfg 1.9mft 3.0to 3.2pf -15.3 = 18.7NP 9.6OE 9.1FG Billy Owens in 1990-91: 38.0m 24.5p 12.2r 3.6a 2.6s 1.2b +44.1 9.0mfg 2.5mft 3.7to 2.8pf -18.0 = 26.1NP 13.0OE 13.1FG CARMELO ANTHONY The ultimate “one and done” guy. Here are his freshmen numbers: 2002-03 36.4m 24.4p 11.0r 2.4a 1.7s 0.9b +40.4 10.5mfg 2.2mft 2.4to 2.4pf -17.5 = 22.9NP 11.7OE 11.2FG And he led us to our only national championship. He then became an NBA star and used some of his millions to build us the Carmelo Anthony Center which has enabled us to play at a very high level the last few years, even if he wasn’t playing on those teams. He’s become “the face of the franchise” for Syracuse basketball and his contributions to our program arguably exceed that of any four year player. But what if he’d stayed for four years? Our greatest teams have had superior players at forward. Forwards are usually your leading scorers and best all-around player. They can contribute in all phases of the game and are in the bets position to “carry” a team by demanding the ball during the rough patches. Addison and Alexis. Coleman and Owns, Wallace and Burgan. Johnson and Jackson or Joseph. Joseph and Fair. Fair and Grant. I still remember Coleman and Owens dominating Georgetown when they had Mourning and Motumbo when we beat them for the first time at Georgetown, 95-76, 1/27/90. Melo’s partner at forward for what would have been his first three years was another one of our great forwards, Hakim Warrick: 2002-03 32.7m 18.1p 10.4r 2.0a 1.7s 1.5b +33.7 5.8mfg 2.2mft 3.2to 3.3pf -14.5 = 19.2NP 10.1OE 9.1FG 2003-04 37.3m 21.3p 9.2r 2.8a 1.0s 1.2b 35.5+ 7.4mfg 2.6mft 3.3to 2.9pf 16.2- = 19.3NP 11.3OE 8.0FG 2004-05 37.5m 22.8p 9.2r 1.6a 1.0s 0.8b 35.4+ 6.6mfg 3.1mft 2.7to 2.5pf 14.9- = 20.5NP 13.1OE 7.4FG Melo would have gotten better and better himself and his partnership with Warrick would have been something to see those next two years. More importantly, the Terrence Roberts Era would have been postponed until he was a senior: 2003-04: 7.6m 9.3p 9.0r 0.8a 1.9s 1.7b 22.7+ 6.4mfg 1.9mft 2.7to 7.6pf 18.6- = 4.1NP 1.0OE 3.1FG (In fact we really didn’t have a second forward that year: Pace, Edelin and then Nichols took most of those minutes) 2004-05: 18.5m 15.6p 8.5r 1.3a 2.4s 1.8b 29.6+ 4.7mfg 2.4mft 3.0to 6.5pf 16.6- = 13.0NP 8.5OE 4.5FG 2005-06: 31.9m 13.5p 9.6r 2.0a 1.7s 1.6b 28.4+ 7.6mfg 1.0mft 2.2to 3.3pf 14.1- = 14.5NP 4.9OE 9.6FG We’d have been national title contenders every year Melo was here. Now if we also could have had Edelin at the point and GMAC at the 2 for four years, we’d have been regulars in the Final Four and probably won more than the one title. DONTE GREENE He was a lanky, talented guy who surprisingly left after one year: 35.8m 19.8p 8.0r 2.3a 1.4s 1.8b 33.3+ 9.7mfg 1.2mft 2.9to 3.2pf 17.0- = 16.3NP 8.9OE 7.4FG I don’t even remember him being as good as those numbers but they are certainly very good numbers for a freshman. Let’s compare those numbers to Jerami Grant as a sophomore this year: 31.1m 15.4p 8.7r 1.8a 1.0s 0.7b 27.6+ 5.7mfg 2.4mft 1.4to 2.8pf 12.3- = 15.3NP 7.3OE 8.0FG Donte was a growing boy, (6-9 when he was here, 6-11 now) and would have gotten better and better as he progressed here. Instead he opted for the NBA money after a disappointing 21-14, NIT season. Looking at the minutes played by the guys on the 2007-08 and 2008-09 teams: 2007-08: Paul Harris 1264; Donte Greene 1253; Jonny Flynn 1243; Arinze Onuaku 1070; Scoop Jardine 646; Kristoff Ongenaet 634; Eric Devendorf 342 (in 10 games before he got hurt). 2008-09: Jonny Flynn 1418; Eric Devendorf 1220; Paul Harris 1130; Andy Rautins 1059; Arinze Onuaku 1017; Rick Jackson 839; Kristoff Ongenaet 515; Kris Joseph 458. The guy who replaced Donte Green was mostly Andy Rautins, one of my favorite recent players but not one who produced as much statistically: 2008-09 28.6m 14.6p 4.6r 4.2a 2.0s 0.2b 25.6+ 7.9mfg 0.5mft 2.8to 2.8pf 14.0- = 11.6NP 6.2OE 5.4FG 2009-10 32.5m 14.9p 4.2r 6.0a 2.4s 0.3b 27.8+ 5.8mfg 0.5mft 3.4to 2.7pf 12.4- = 15.4NP 8.6OE 6.8FG The other guy who picked up Greene’s minutes, (and, like Greene, was a forward), was Rick Jackson: 2008-09 22.1m 15.0p 10.4r 1.7a 1.6s 2.9b 31.6+ 4.0mfg 1.9mft 2.9to 3.6pf 12.4- = 19.2NP 9.1OE 10.1FG 2009-10 26.3m 14.8p 10.7r 2.6a 1.6s 3.0b 32.7+ 4.5mfg 1.9mft 3.0to 3.0pf 12.4- = 20.3NP 8.4OE 11.9FG 2010-11 35.6m 14.7p 11.6r 2.5a 1.5s 2.8b 33.1+ 4.3mfg 2.1mft 2.3to 2.3pf 11.0- = 22.1NP 8.3OE 13.8FG I think Rautins in 2009-10 was a better player than greener in 2007-08 and that Rich Jackson was certainly better, even in 2008-09. Whether they were better than what Greene could have become here, I don’t know. Greene actually became a pretty good NBA player, averaging 13.0ppg for four years. The injury bug bit him after that. We did a pretty good job of replacing him after he left here and had some of our best teams. JONNY FLYNN Here’s Jonny Flynn’s freshman year: 2007-08 35.5m 17.6p 3.0r 6.0a 1.7s 0.2b 28.5+ 7.2mfg 1.0mft 3.1to 1.6pf 12.9- = 15.6NP 9.4OE 6.2FG Here’s Tyler Ennis as a freshman: 2013-14 35.5m 14.0p 3.8r 6.2a 2.3s 0.2b 26.5+ 6.6mfg 1.3mft 2.0to 2.3pf 12.2- = 14.3NP 6.1OE 8.2FG Jonny is the better scorer. Tyler, (who is a little bigger) is a better rebounder, despite Jonny’s famous “hops” and gets more steals. Jonny misses a few more shots and has more turnovers. Tyler somehow commits more fouls. Jonny’s better overall but Tyler’s edge in the floor game might be more important to his point guard position. Here is Jonny’s second year: 2008-09 37.3m 18.7p 2.9r 7.2a 1.5s 0.2b 30.5+ 7.2mfg 1.4mft 3.6to 1.6pf 13.6- = 16.7NP 10.1 OE 6.6FG He scored more, assisted more but turned the ball more even more. We’ll see what Tyler’s second year looks like. Jonny missed being on one of our greatest teams, my favorite of the recent bunch, 2009-10. We had two of everything on that team: two inside scorers, Onuaku and Jackson, two good outside shooters, Johnson and Rautins. We also had two point guards: Brandon Triche 2009-10 21.3m 15.2p 3.4r 5.3a 1.6s 0.1b 25.6+ 5.4mfg 1.6mft 3.8to 2.4pf 13.2- = 12.4NP 8.2OE 4.2FG 2010-11 28.8m 15.5p 3.7r 4.0a 1.1s 0.1b 24.4+ 7.1mfg 0.6mft 2.9to 2.7pf 13.3- = 11.1NP 7.8OE 3.3FG Scoop Jardine 2009-10 22.2m 16.3p 3.5r 7.8a 2.1s 0.1b 29.8+ 6.1mfg 1.2mft 3.4to 2.6pf 13.3- = 16.5NP 9.0OE 7.5FG 2010-11 32.1m 15.6p 2.7r 7.3a 2.0s 0.2b 27.8+ 7.7mfg 1.3mft 3.6to 2.2pf 14.8- = 13.0NP 6.6OE 6.4FG They did a very good job and Jardine’s numbers in 2009-10 are similar to Flynn’s the previous year. But, as with Greene, we don’t know how good Jonny could have gotten. He might have added a little more strength to the 2009-10 team but that team’s main problem was losing Onuaku at the wrong time. He might have a greater impact on the 2010-11 team, when both Jardine and Triche had somewhat worse years. I have to believe that a senior Flynn might have handled things better down the stretch vs. Marquette in the NCAAs. WES JOHNSON Wes had two years of eligibility left after his transfer from Iowa State but only sued one of them. But it was quite a year: 2009-10 35.0m 18.9p 9.8r 2.5a 1.9s 2.1b 35.2+ 6.7mfg 1.1mft 2.6to 2.4pf 12.8- = 22.4NP 11.1OE 11.6FG Compare that to Carmelo Anthony’s one year here: 2002-03 36.4m 24.4p 11.0r 2.4a 1.7s 0.9b +40.4 10.5mfg 2.2mft 2.4to 2.4pf -17.5 = 22.9NP 11.7OE 11.2FG Both were the star players for 30-5 teams. Wes’ team got to the #1 ranking and Melo’s won the national title. Melo was the greater scorer and rebounder. Wes blocked more shots and missed far fewer. Their net numbers are virtually identical. When Wes left for a disappointing and injury-plagued pro career, Kris Joseph, CJ Fair and James Southerland got his minutes. Their skills at the time, if combined, might have added up to Wes Johnson: Joseph: 32.4m 17.6p 6.5r 2.7a 1.9s 0.8b 29.5+ 6.8mfg 1.9mft 2.7to 2.3pf 13.7- = 15.8NP 8.9OE 6.9FG Fair: 18.6m 13.7p 8.2r 0.9a 1.7s 1.7b 26.2+ 4.6mfg 1.7mft 1.8to 2.6pf 10.7- = 15.5NP 7.4OE 8.1FG Southerland: 14.1m 13.7p 6.4r 1.3a 1.4s 1.6b 24.4+ 7.0mfg 0.3mft 0.6to 3.5pf 11.4- = 13.0NP 6.4OE 6.6FG But none, as an individual, was his equal. With Rick Jackson having a tremendous year inside, he and Wes, (and Jonny) might have given us an unbroken string of 30 win seasons in this decade. But as it was, we went 27-8, which is still pretty good. I’m not going to include Fab Melo in this group because, given his acadme3ic problems, I don’t think his coming back was an option, even if he hadn’t gone to the NBA. DION WAITERS Here are Dion’s numbers in his last year here, when we went 34-3: 2011-12 24.1m 21.0p 3.8r 4.1a 3.0s 0.5b 32.4+ 8.4mfg 1.4mft 2.2to 3.1pf 15.1- = 17.3NP 11.2OE 6.1FG Here are the numbers for his replacement, Trevor Cooney: 2012-13: 11.2m 12.2p 2.9r 2.1a 2.6s 0.3b 20.1+ 9.1mfg 0.4mft 1.7to 3.0pf 14.2- = 5.9NP 2.7OE 3.2FG 2013-14: 32.6m 15.3p 2.6r 1.5a 2.4s 0.1b 21.9+ 7.2mfg 0.3mft 0.9to 1.3pf 9.7- = 12.2NP 7.8OE 4.4FG Our last two teams have been offensive challenged and Dion Waiters is exactly what we needed to solve that problem. MICHAEL CARTER-WILLIAMS Let’s compare MCW last year to Tyler Ennis this year: MCW: 35.2m 13.5p 5.5r 8.3a 3.2s 0.5b 31.0+ 6.8mfg 1.6mft 3.9to 2.6pf 14.9- = 16.1NP 5.1OE 11.0FG Ennis: 35.5m 14.0p 3.8r 6.2a 2.3s 0.2b 26.5+ 6.6mfg 1.3mft 2.0to 2.3pf 12.2- = 14.3NP 6.1OE 8.2FG Tyler is actually scoring slightly more but MCW was a better rebounder, passer and ball-hawk. He did have more turnovers- a lot more. But on balance, he was the better player. And he would have been better this year than last, with Tyler Ennis to back him up, (which I think was JB’s plan). Imagine if we had a backcourt of MCW as a junior and Dion Waiters as a senior. Here are their NBA numbers this year, (per 40 minutes, rather than 48): MCW: 34.4m 19.5p 6.5r 7.3a 2.3s 0.8b 36.4+ 10.7mfg 1.9mft 4.4to 3.5pf 20.5- = 15.9NP 6.96OE 9.0FG Waiters: 27.7m 20.8p 4.1r 3.7a 1.3s 0.3b 30.2+ 10.8mfg 1.4mft 3.2to 3.1pf 18.5- = 11.7NP 8.6OE 3.1FG There’s a lot of missed shots there and more turnovers than we’ve been having but these and 1sty and 2nd year players in the NBA. Will Tyler Ennis and Trevor Cooney even be NBA players? Surely if MCW and Neon Dion were our starting backcourt, we’d have no trouble scoring. [/QUOTE]

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