Frank was so bad

[CuseFaninVT]

I remember.

Still. Zion and Barrett in the same year is like getting Melo and Amare in the same class. Plus McCants(Reddish).

Or Oden and Durant...plus Thaddeus Young.

They may have gotten the top prospect sometimes but the rest of the top 10 went elsewhere.

Or some years their best kid was the 10th-15th best player or so(Henderson, D.Nelson, etc)

They weren’t ever doing it like THIS.

They've become the new PayPal Cal Kentucky.

 

[OrangeDW]

They've become the new PayPal Cal Kentucky.

Man, going through some rankings quickly...

2008, Duke’s best recruit was Miles Plumlee(#81). I’m thinking they had much of their team back and it was a small class. What a different time. We had Mookie Jones(46), and Kris Joseph(51).

2007, they had Singler(6) and Nolan Smith(18). We had Greene(8), Flynn(21), Scoop(50), Jackson(60). Different times.

2006 they got 10, 20, 25, and 28(Henderson, Thomas, Zoubek, Scheyer). Great class but nowhere near the same realm of getting like 3 of the top 7 players or something, like they’ve been getting.

We got Harris(23) and Mike Jones(44) that year.

2005 they got McRoberts(1) and Paulus(13)...holy overrated. That was the last year affected by one and done. We got Devendorf(22).

They weren’t killing us on the trails back then. We were in the same ballpark at least, as were a lot of the strong programs.

The last few years have just been ridiculous.

 

[wiseman3]

If we're considering this a "good game" from Frank then our standards are dreadfully low. He hit a few wide open threes in the first half, that's it. He went scoreless in the 2nd half. When's the last time he drove and made a layup? Yes others need to step up but Frank barely resembles a PG at this point.

 

[OrangeDW]

If we're considering this a "good game" from Frank then our standards are dreadfully low. He hit a few wide open threes in the first half, that's it. He went scoreless in the 2nd half. When's the last time he drove and made a layup? Yes others need to step up but Frank barely resembles a PG at this point.

What? The title of the post is “Frank was so bad”.


Who said Frank was good?

 

[wiseman3]

What? The title of the post is “Frank was so bad”.


Who said Frank was good?

A few posters said they thought it was a good bounce back game for him and they thought he played pretty well.

 

[Newhouser]

tre jones had zero steals. averages 2 per game.

I don't get the Jones hype. He can't shoot at all.

 

[Day2]

I remember.

Still. Zion and Barrett in the same year is like getting Melo and Amare in the same class. Plus McCants(Reddish).

Or Oden and Durant...plus Thaddeus Young.

They may have gotten the top prospect sometimes but the rest of the top 10 went elsewhere.

Or some years their best kid was the 10th-15th best player or so(Henderson, D.Nelson, etc)

They weren’t ever doing it like THIS.

We still weren’t recruiting at their level at that time. I wouldn’t even say it was reasonably close.

 

[OrangeDW]

We still weren’t recruiting at their level at that time. I wouldn’t even say it was reasonably close.

I just posted the numbers for 2005-08.

 

[44cuse]

I really don’t get why JB keeps forcing the lineup

You've been watching how many years now?

44cuse

 

[Consigliere]

They got smashed without Zion by UNC. They are not the best team without him. Not even the best team in the ACC without him. Would finish behind UVA and UNC without Zion.

Citing Bolden is hysterical. Has done next to nothing in his time at Duke. Who cares if he was overrated coming out of HS.

Fine. Never mind. Duke was apparently not the number 1 team in the polls when the game tipped off yesterday. I must be mistaken. What has that got to do with my original statement? Posters going off on the team after they played very competitively against one of the better teams in the country? Absurd.

And having a guy like Bolden available to step in was a MAJOR factor in the second half yesterday. Grabbing 8 rebounds in the second have including 4 huge offensive boards was one of the key reasons Duke was able to put the game away. My point is that Duke, even without Zion, is tremendously talented team. Yes, they may get passed for the top spot by Gonzaga when the new polls come out but with Barrett, Jones and Reddish complemented by the role players they can put on the floor I don;t think I see more than 3 or 4 other teams that come close to their talent level.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't get the Jones hype. He can't shoot at all.

If he went to Syracuse, he’s Jason Hart. Since he goes to Duke, he’s supposedly Gary Payton.

 

[OrangeDW]

Fine. Never mind. Duke was apparently not the number 1 team in the polls when the game tipped off yesterday. I must be mistaken. What has that got to do with my original statement? Posters going off on the team after they played very competitively against one of the better teams in the country? Absurd.

And having a guy like Bolden available to step in was a MAJOR factor in the second half yesterday. Grabbing 8 rebounds in the second have including 4 huge offensive boards was one of the key reasons Duke was able to put the game away. My point is that Duke, even without Zion, is tremendously talented team. Yes, they may get passed for the top spot by Gonzaga when the new polls come out but with Barrett, Jones and Reddish complemented by the role players they can put on the floor I don;t think I see more than 3 or 4 other teams that come close to their talent level.

Right. Forgot Zion exists for a minute. Bolden was like the number 10 or so recruit in the country. Barrett has an argument for best player in the country. He’s like a future NBA all star at minimum. They’re loaded.

 

[Arangeman]

tre jones had zero steals. averages 2 per game.

Tre Jones mostly guarded Battle. Altered that game entirely.

 

[samspann1]

Tre Jones mostly guarded Battle. Altered that game entirely.

don't understand why they didn't try to post Battle up on Jones.

 

[Arangeman]

don't understand why they didn't try to post Battle up on Jones.

Yep. JB had to know it was coming. Take advantage of Battle’s size instead of asking him to beat Jones off the dribble or just shoot long jumpers over him.

My only thought is who could get him the ball and that the help would come quickly. But Battle is a much better passer, why not try it? Battle is pretty comfortable in that range with the floater, short jumper or going to the rim.

 

[kcsu]

don't understand why they didn't try to post Battle up on Jones.

Agreed. I actually posted this pre game. Battle should have been posted up all day long I kept hoping for either JC at the point with Hughes at the 2 Frank 3 and OB 4 Marek 5 or Frank at the 1 with the same lineup.

 

[Arangeman]

Agreed. I actually posted this pre game. Battle should have been posted up all day long I kept hoping for either JC at the point with Hughes at the 2 Frank 3 and OB 4 Marek 5 or Frank at the 1 with the same lineup.

I imagine that the lack of confidence in Frank to effectively execute impacted the decision not to post Battle.

 

[orangecuse]

Frank gets picked on the most, right or wrong, because he's the point guard. And, as a pg, you bear the main responsibility of running the team, i.e., the QB, Floor General, etc. That position is bar none, the most critical position in the game. As the guards go in college hoops, so does the team go.

As others have alluded, the problem is Frank isn't a point guard, and he doesn't & never has possessed the skill set required to play the position, certainly not at this level. This isn't anything new, last year in games we lost, many of the same Frank problematic tendencies, inadequate skill set, etc. were present then, as they remain today. JB saying that Frank can't get by anyone after the FSU game, he could've made that same statement last year, the only difference is that Frank is a senior...and last year there were no other options. And, just as JB also stated after the first BC game, Tyus is simply better with the ball and in making plays than Frank. Really, go back and revisit some of those games last year, especially the teams that placed a lot of emphasis on ball pressure, etc. The season before, we had a 5th year grad transfer over take his minutes because of similarly related matters.

I feel a large part of the onus is on the coaching staff, as their hope/belief of converting him to a point has been detrimental. You may contribute that to lack of player development, the individual's work ethic himself to improve upon, or both. But one thing is apparently clear, if you do not already maintain the skill set required at point (or at least have a strong base) before arriving on campus, especially at this high level D1/P5 ball, well, good luck as you're simply rolling the dice.

Now, Frank does possess a very nice looking J. He gets excellent elevation, nice release and follow through, while keeping his legs straight up and down. He just has never been consistent at making them, especially for a 2 guard, which is what he has always been. Hopefully, in his remaining games, he can get more of them to fall, get hot/streaky, that would be some especially good timing come March. I think that's really the best we can hope for as fans for the remainder of the season.

What does bother me the most about Frank is a couple of things Corduroy mentioned above. His antics after making a three, etc. and being a relatively lazy defender on D. D is mostly effort, grit and mental toughness. And, that instance last night in that critical possession where Barrett hit that 3 with only a second or two on the shot clock was brutal. He never slid over or even make an effort to do it, leaving OB in the dire position of choosing to flank to the corner to cover an open O'Connell or staying put on Barrett. That, along with that costly T/O when he picked up his dribble, then gave an half-assed effort getting back to stop the ensuing layup.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I don't get the Jones hype. He can't shoot at all.

Well, that's kind of missing the point, when lots of people mention him as being one of the best defenders.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

It’s been our free throws Christ it’s always been our free throws

 

[OrangePA]

Up against the shot clock when he has the ball, he couldn't beat Cam Reddish off the dribble to set up teammates. Reddish is 6'8". We will struggle with him getting this many minutes at the point. Our best lineup doesn't include him . We look good with him sitting next to JB.

Pulling up his dribble - having the ball taken away - at a key moment toward the end of the game - was the essence of my issue with Frank Howard.

I like his talent and I like his vision.

But he continues to make freshman mistakes.

And that hurts at crunch time.

 

[realorange]

I remember.

Still. Zion and Barrett in the same year is like getting Melo and Amare in the same class. Plus McCants(Reddish).

Or Oden and Durant...plus Thaddeus Young.

They may have gotten the top prospect sometimes but the rest of the top 10 went elsewhere.

Or some years their best kid was the 10th-15th best player or so(Henderson, D.Nelson, etc)

They weren’t ever doing it like THIS.

The story is that they were talking to each other before committing to Duke saying how great it would be to play together.

 

[realorange]

I don't get the Jones hype. He can't shoot at all.

True but he plays very good defense and runs the team well.

 

[CorduroyG]

if duke is at full strength in the tournament i think they roll to the title. maybe 1 close game, theyre a freakin nba team

 

[pfister1]

don't understand why they didn't try to post Battle up on Jones.

Assume because they would double off of our center. Didn’t we try to do this everytime they ended up with Jones on Brissett following a switch and we couldn’t take advantage. It’s easy to say it in a vacuum, quite another thing to do especially when the opposing team has a defender that doesn’t actually have to guard his man and is always available to double.