From where I sat

[SWC75]

from what i have read, this appears to be the same ol syracuse team. cooney can't shoot and we can't rebound. i'm afraid it will be a long year with double digit losses

One thing I thought of that I forgot to mention is that this team looks like it isn't dependent on Cooney to provide the outside game. He was 0 for 4 but his teammates were 6 for 11. If Patterson can play like he did with some consistency, (last year JB said he could hit three in a row and then miss the rim on three in a row, then Cooney will be on the bench when he isn't contributing.

 

[SWC75]

He wasn't reluctant at all to shoot from 20 feet away. IMO he's a little TOO eager to shoot.

He was 0 for 1 from the arc.

 

[Cusefan0307]

He was 0 for 1 from the arc.

I think the correct word to describe Roberson, is he plays nervous and jittery. At least that is what I see.

 

[br801]

Looking at the box score, I can see that G-man had a good game: 6 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists and a block in 35 minutes. And, of course he had to be part of the defensive effort in the second half. I didn't find him particularly visible but that's because he was doing the little things that helps the team win. Or maybe after wathcign two SU games in less than 24 hours, my eyes were a bit bleary.

JB indicated in the presser that Gbinije will be playing a lot this season, perhaps more than some of the starters. I interpret that to mean he will be playing a lot. We all know JB will have a short leash with guys he doesn't yet trust (Roberson) or with key young players who may require the occasional teaching moment (Joseph, McCullough). Gbinije's ability to play multiple positions on the floor (and play them well) makes him a critical piece this season.

 

[SWC75]

JB indicated in the presser that Gbinije will be playing a lot this season, perhaps more than some of the starters. I interpret that to mean he will be playing a lot. We all know JB will have a short leash with guys he doesn't yet trust (Roberson) or with key young players who may require the occasional teaching moment (Joseph, McCullough). Gbinije's ability to play three positions on the floor makes him a critical piece this season.

I've always been a fan of G-Man and hope he has great success. As I said, I think what I've got to do is forget those high-schoofilms where he played like a superstar and see him as a "glue-guy", which is what i think he'll be on this team.

 

[Orange4]

Not concerned at all, the team played better than I thought they would and the mistakes we had I'm sure our legendary/hall of fame coach will have them fixed up. I think this team only gets better as the year goes on.

 

[jordoo]

I still think he's a complimentary player. He was a complimentary player who had a good game. I thought he might emerge as a star-quality, gimme- the ball type player. Maybe that's not what we need from him and I need to forget those high school films where he looked like LeBron James, (against high school competition). I was impressed with his three pointer, unimpressed by the subsequent air ball and looked for more spectacular plays and, when I didn't get them, failed to note his other contributions.

I think you are under rating the importance of his role this season. As of this moment he is the only backup PG and the second best ball handler on the team. He is also the best defender we have as a forward. Without Mike's abilities no way we can play a Cooney/Patterson backcourt for any length of time. On this team he isn't really a complimentary player because he is holding everything together without him all our holes are magnified. Perhaps he will be a complimentary scorer because of his roll as a facilitator but he is not a complimentary player on this team IMO he is one of the key cogs.

 

[jordoo]

One thing I thought of that I forgot to mention is that this team looks like it isn't dependent on Cooney to provide the outside game. He was 0 for 4 but his teammates were 6 for 11. If Patterson can play like he did with some consistency, (last year JB said he could hit three in a row and then miss the rim on three in a row, then Cooney will be on the bench when he isn't contributing.

Yes this is very important but we still need Cooney to be a good shooter and draw the D to get the other guys these open shots. I think Cooney needs to use the pump fake and the bounce to make some things happen instead of wait for open 3's in this offense. After one exhibition it looks as if Buss, Mike, Chris and Kaleb will all be able to make open 3's this year. Very good sign.

 

[rrlbees]

One thing I thought of that I forgot to mention is that this team looks like it isn't dependent on Cooney to provide the outside game. He was 0 for 4 but his teammates were 6 for 11. If Patterson can play like he did with some consistency, (last year JB said he could hit three in a row and then miss the rim on three in a row, then Cooney will be on the bench when he isn't contributing.

Cooney didn't hit anything yesterday yet played 35 minutes including all 20 in the 2nd half. And that was an exhibition.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I sort of disagree on the physics of the high arcing shot being a disadvantage. It's hard to describe why without diagrams, but think of it in terms of the allowable error in accuracy of a shot that goes in.

A ball approaching from low angle has a view of the goal which is very small and its velocity vector is directed such that bounces off the rim are not especially helpful. Now think of a ball that is falling toward the goal from directly above. It sees the goal at its maximum aperture (thus allowing for the greatest amount of error while still going through). Additionally, its velocity vector is such that bounces are more likely to stay in the vicinity of the goal.

 

[pfister1]

Cooney didn't hit anything yesterday yet played 35 minutes including all 20 in the 2nd half. And that was an exhibition.

Certainly would seem to be a sign that JB expects to ride Cooney a bit this season, but, not having watched the game, I was a bit baffled by the 35 minutes for Cooney yesterday. Given it was a meaningless game I wouldn't have expected them to have 3 guys that played 34+ minutes and definitely wouldn't have expected one of those guys to be the one guys who is a returning big minute player.

I wonder if our inexperience at the forwards is going to lead to foul problems this season for RAK?

 

[SoBristol]

I still think he's a complimentary player. He was a complimentary player who had a good game. I thought he might emerge as a star-quality, gimme- the ball type player. Maybe that's not what we need from him and I need to forget those high school films where he looked like LeBron James, (against high school competition). I was impressed with his three pointer, unimpressed by the subsequent air ball and looked for more spectacular plays and, when I didn't get them, failed to note his other contributions.

Nope. He isn't going to be the big scorer and we don't need that. He is a complimentary scorer, but the necessary glue guy and a second distributor who provides what makes up for what is missing in Cooney's game. Takes pressure away from Joseph.
Just consider what we have and don't have in the other roles and you can see how valuable Gbinije can be.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

He was 0 for 1 from the arc.

He was 0 for 3 from anywhere near the arc.

In fact, he's 0 for his career from anywhere near the arc.

He needs to take a step or two closer to the trough.

 

[jordoo]

I sort of disagree on the physics of the high arcing shot being a disadvantage. It's hard to describe why without diagrams, but think of it in terms of the allowable error in accuracy of a shot that goes in.

A ball approaching from low angle has a view of the goal which is very small and its velocity vector is directed such that bounces off the rim are not especially helpful. Now think of a ball that is falling toward the goal from directly above. It sees the goal at its maximum aperture (thus allowing for the greatest amount of error while still going through). Additionally, its velocity vector is such that bounces are more likely to stay in the vicinity of the goal.

Very interesting. I know what you are saying from a physics standpoint. Its funny though because some guys just have soft shots no matter what the trajectory even though it seems impossible from a physics standpoint. I suspect it has to do with proper rotation and better action of the finger tips.

 

[rrlbees]

Certainly would seem to be a sign that JB expects to ride Cooney a bit this season, but, not having watched the game, I was a bit baffled by the 35 minutes for Cooney yesterday. Given it was a meaningless game I wouldn't have expected them to have 3 guys that played 34+ minutes and definitely wouldn't have expected one of those guys to be the one guys who is a returning big minute player. I wonder if our inexperience at the forwards is going to lead to foul problems this season for RAK?

RAK foul trouble is my biggest concern with the team.

 

[SBU72]

I think that playing Carleton in the preseason is the best thing SU has ever done. They are capable and tough. A very good teaching tool for JB. It looked like the team was not prepared for what they got in the 1st half, being over confident against a smaller Canadian team or just not understanding the level of college ball. Playing weak teams won't get that point across. JB had to point out at half time that they had to play better D and concentrate on offense.

Several specific points come to mind: Xmas looked much better on offense, great drives, hope he can do that against the ACC. If Buss continues to hit like he did, then Cooney could see a lot of bench time. If I remember correctly he started the 2nd half. Perhaps having the two of them out there would work well. It appears that what a few have been claiming, Obokoh is not ready for prime time playing. If Coleman can't play, SU could be in trouble.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Certainly would seem to be a sign that JB expects to ride Cooney a bit this season, but, not having watched the game, I was a bit baffled by the 35 minutes for Cooney yesterday. Given it was a meaningless game I wouldn't have expected them to have 3 guys that played 34+ minutes and definitely wouldn't have expected one of those guys to be the one guys who is a returning big minute player.

I wonder if our inexperience at the forwards is going to lead to foul problems this season for RAK?

They said on the broadcast that JB was playing to win the game. Thats why all those guys logged heavy minutes yesterday. If we lost, people would of been upset that the horses didn't play enough. Cooney, Christmas, CMAC, and G are good bets to log heavy minutes all year long. I was hoping to see Johnson play more, and maybe he will as the season goes on, but at this point his game is similar to how Dirty's was his sophomore year.

 

[HoustonCuse]

People are putting Cooney into the grave a little early. He's going to be solid for us this year. I would guess right now that Patterson will get much less playing time in the real season than people are imagining at this moment.

 

[jordoo]

Cooney needs to shoot better than that and look for offense other than jump shots. (he is capable of that) He's always good defensively. People do seem to fail to notice that although Cooney seemed to rush his open looks and took a couple that weren't the best decision the other guys shooting were open by miles. Carlton swarmed the paint and the ball so giving up the 3 line was part of their strategy but Cooney was the only guy they consistently tried to cover. Its important for Cooney to have enough good shooting nights to make defenses commit to stopping him because it gives us better spacing. Cooney was on the floor for every 2nd half 3 that Ron made.

 

[pfister1]

They said on the broadcast that JB was playing to win the game. Thats why all those guys logged heavy minutes yesterday. If we lost, people would of been upset that the horses didn't play enough. Cooney, Christmas, CMAC, and G are good bets to log heavy minutes all year long. I was hoping to see Johnson play more, and maybe he will as the season goes on, but at this point his game is similar to how Dirty's was his sophomore year.

This is one of the few places that I disagree with JB. I think he should invest more game minutes in developing players. Notwithstanding, I accept that reasonable minds can differ on the subject of how to allocate playing time in games that matter and he is the one with 900+wins, but I can't see how anyone that is really concerned with how the team is going to do over the course of the season gives two craps about the final score against Carleton.

 

[SWC75]

I sort of disagree on the physics of the high arcing shot being a disadvantage. It's hard to describe why without diagrams, but think of it in terms of the allowable error in accuracy of a shot that goes in.

A ball approaching from low angle has a view of the goal which is very small and its velocity vector is directed such that bounces off the rim are not especially helpful. Now think of a ball that is falling toward the goal from directly above. It sees the goal at its maximum aperture (thus allowing for the greatest amount of error while still going through). Additionally, its velocity vector is such that bounces are more likely to stay in the vicinity of the goal.

I think the velocity of the ball is more important than the width of the aperture. The ball doesn't have eyes. I recall Arinze Onuaku's foul shots which were very high and came down on the basket from above. When they weren't dead on, (as they generally weren't), the bounced violently up and away from the rim., There was no potential for any "around and in" action. When McCullough missed Sunday, I saw the same thing. I think you want the ball to get over the front rim just as it's losing it's energy, not gaining it through gravity

 

[longtimefan]

I think the velocity of the ball is more important than the width of the aperture. The ball doesn't have eyes. I recall Arinze Onuaku's foul shots which were very high and came down on the basket from above. When they weren't dead on, (as they generally weren't), the bounced violently up and away from the rim., There was no potential for any "around and in" action. When McCullough missed Sunday, I saw the same thing. I think you want the ball to get over the front rim just as it's losing it's energy, not gaining it through gravity

There have been great shooters whose shot was flat (Jerry West), and those whose shot brought rain (Oscar Robertson). "Touch" is a very complex physical equation.

 

[TinyManInside]

I sort of disagree on the physics of the high arcing shot being a disadvantage. It's hard to describe why without diagrams, but think of it in terms of the allowable error in accuracy of a shot that goes in.

A ball approaching from low angle has a view of the goal which is very small and its velocity vector is directed such that bounces off the rim are not especially helpful. Now think of a ball that is falling toward the goal from directly above. It sees the goal at its maximum aperture (thus allowing for the greatest amount of error while still going through). Additionally, its velocity vector is such that bounces are more likely to stay in the vicinity of the goal.

Nice post and this is mostly correct from a physics standpoint. It turns out that an arc of 52 degrees (with all other things being equal, specifically backspin on the basketball) gives the best chance of a shot going in, and this would be considered a 'very high arc' compared to most shooters (I think they measured the average NBA 3 point shot at like 30-35 degrees IIRC). There is a very detailed analysis/proof of this in John Fontanella's book 'The Physics of Basketball'. [disclaimer: John is a friend of mine and former professor of physics at the Naval Academy]

Also, it turns out that backspin is just as important as arc.

Not surprisingly, the most important factor of all is 'AIM'.

mason

 

[TinyManInside]

I think the velocity of the ball is more important than the width of the aperture. The ball doesn't have eyes. I recall Arinze Onuaku's foul shots which were very high and came down on the basket from above. When they weren't dead on, (as they generally weren't), the bounced violently up and away from the rim., There was no potential for any "around and in" action. When McCullough missed Sunday, I saw the same thing. I think you want the ball to get over the front rim just as it's losing it's energy, not gaining it through gravity

AO had very poor aim and poor rotation. The long bounces are more a result of lack of rotation. A 52 degree arc actually gives you the most possible margin of error for NOT hitting the rim.

 

[reedny]

Describe what you saw.

It's a good summary, SWC, enjoyed it. I watched the game, and reviewed it on the dvr. I think you were dead on about most things. But MG does bring value to the team. Basically, he's a swiss army knife. He can play 3 positions and adds desperately-needed depth ... especially at the point and SF, where we have a freshman (who looked great last night) and TR who played very tentatively. Gbinije is not a volume scorer or outside assassin, but at least he can come in and hit the open shot and run the team.

Where's he's really valuable is on defense. He has an impressive vertical and good footwork. Why is this valuable -- well when Roberson was repeatedly out of position and got yanked, MG came in and cleaned it up. When KJ needed a break, MG came in and played well -- 6 points and 1 TO in probably 13 or 14 minutes playing guard. That's value. You're not going to have a Dion every year to bring NBA-level offense off the bench. So absent spectacular at one skill (or position), I'll settle for reliable and (nearly) mistake-free at three - that was MG last night.

Mr. Swiss Army also tied CM for a team-high 6 rebounds ... which is more than can be said for our center.