Future Campus Framework Presentation...

[KellySyracuse]

"Others charged in the probe were two top upstate developers, Steven Aiello of Syracuse and Louis Ciminelli of Buffalo. Also charged was Todd Howe, a former aide to Cuomo's late father and governor, Mario, and who was employed by a prominent lobbying firm."

SUNY Poly prez; ex-Cuomo aide charged in probe

So glad COR never got the stadium deal as there was rigged fixes all over that project...so just keep ripping Minor from saving us from a major blunder.COR never intended to hire "any" local contractors that were not under their thumb in some form one way or another and the Mayor could not accept that.
Mahoney's office is also under investigation by the feds...Stadium deal?

Is Aiello still on any Syracuse U. boards? He was listed earlier on one.

I was just coming over here to post the same thing. I wonder if Miner knew back then that there was bad dealings going on and found a way to stonewall the project. The county is in the middle of this mess too and would not be the least bit surprised if it all ties back to the stadium deal.

 

[Millhouse]

"Others charged in the probe were two top upstate developers, Steven Aiello of Syracuse and Louis Ciminelli of Buffalo. Also charged was Todd Howe, a former aide to Cuomo's late father and governor, Mario, and who was employed by a prominent lobbying firm."

SUNY Poly prez; ex-Cuomo aide charged in probe

So glad COR never got the stadium deal as there was rigged fixes all over that project...so just keep ripping Minor from saving us from a major blunder.COR never intended to hire "any" local contractors that were not under their thumb in some form one way or another and the Mayor could not accept that.
Mahoney's office is also under investigation by the feds...Stadium deal?

Is Aiello still on any Syracuse U. boards? He was listed earlier on one.

everyone who freaked out about miner looks pretty silly now

it's unbelievable how much power that kolymolyrolypoly had

 

[xc84]

I was just coming over here to post the same thing. I wonder if Miner knew back then that there was bad dealings going on and found a way to stonewall the project. The county is in the middle of this mess too and would not be the least bit surprised if it all ties back to the stadium deal.

If she knew it and didn't blow the whistle then she's part of the problem. I doubt she knew about it though. She was just all put out that they didn't ask her permission first.

 

[Millhouse]

If she knew it and didn't blow the whistle then she's part of the problem. I doubt she knew about it though. She was just all put out that they didn't ask her permission first.

oh come on

 

[KellySyracuse]

If she knew it and didn't blow the whistle then she's part of the problem. I doubt she knew about it though. She was just all put out that they didn't ask her permission first.

maybe she did and you just don't know about it.

I don't get the hate for Miner, she's done more the for the city than a lot of her predecessors. She gets stuff done and doesn't put up with any horsecrap. She's labeled an obstructionist because of the Destiny delays and the issue with COR about the inner harbor. Turns out she was right to push back.

 

[retro44]

I was just coming over here to post the same thing. I wonder if Miner knew back then that there was bad dealings going on and found a way to stonewall the project. The county is in the middle of this mess too and would not be the least bit surprised if it all ties back to the stadium deal.

Her stepson is an executive at COR...V.P. of something over there I think

 

[retro44]

If she knew it and didn't blow the whistle then she's part of the problem. I doubt she knew about it though. She was just all put out that they didn't ask her permission first.

There was a lot of stuff I kept off this board because people were all too emotional over a new stadium. COR is rotten to the core on this one.

I had the Mayor's back on this one from day one and I work in construction tooo.I think Mahoney may be in deep doo-doo here.Deals were being cut behind the scenes and if you never want anything repeated then don't go bragging about potential deals.
Plus COR just announced the other day they are suing the city for more inner harbor lands...arrogance for sure.
And Gerardi knew he was going down for a while now.

 

[Millhouse]

There was a lot of stuff I kept off this board because people were all too emotional over a new stadium. COR is rotten to the core on this one.

I had the Mayor's back on this one from day one and I work in construction tooo.I think Mahoney may be in deep doo-doo here.Deals were being cut behind the scenes and if you never want anything repeated then don't go bragging about potential deals.
Plus COR just announced the other day they are suing the city for more inner harbor lands...arrogance for sure.
And Gerardi knew he was going down for a while now.

So much brazen corruption - wish these people would par attention to what became of bill nojay. The bribes just aren't worth it. There are plenty of legal and awful ways for these guys to get paid. That mad dash to spend 500 mil in an hour was a big red flag that something shady was happening

 

[FrancoPizza]

maybe she did and you just don't know about it.

I don't get the hate for Miner, she's done more the for the city than a lot of her predecessors. She gets stuff done and doesn't put up with any horsecrap. She's labeled an obstructionist because of the Destiny delays and the issue with COR about the inner harbor. Turns out she was right to push back.

Oh come on. Just because COR is corrupt doesn't suddenly make her a saint and a visionary leader. She blocked the stadium deal for the same reasons she blocks everything else: she needs to be the face of every story and wants everyone to kiss her ring.

The obstruction with destiny killed off future phases because she dragged everything through the mud until the markets collapsed and banks decided to stop lending everywhere. I have firsthand knowledge that they were weeks away from securing $400M+ in financing for the 43-story hotel. A friend of mine moved here because he was part of an elevator construction crew that specializes in long spans. Anyhow, this is not to say that Destiny didn't play a part in trying to squeeze every last cent from the city - but shrewd businesses look for the best deals in their favor. And there's no way of knowing just how much different the mall site would look today, but A more business-friendly local administration would have made a huge difference.

As far as blocking the sale of the last piece of land at the inner harbor - that's just immaturity and obfuscation. What's done is done. Unless another developer is going to swing in on a chandelier at this stage of the game, just stay out of the way and give COR a chance to be successful with this project so that the community can benefit when all is said and done.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Oh come on. Just because COR is corrupt doesn't suddenly make her a saint and a visionary leader. She blocked the stadium deal for the same reasons she blocks everything else: she needs to be the face of every story and wants everyone to kiss her ring.

The obstruction with destiny killed off future phases because she dragged everything through the mud until the markets collapsed and banks decided to stop lending everywhere. I have firsthand knowledge that they were weeks away from securing $400M+ in financing for the 43-story hotel. A friend of mine moved here because he was part of an elevator construction crew that specializes in long spans. Anyhow, this is not to say that Destiny didn't play a part in trying to squeeze every last cent from the city - but shrewd businesses look for the best deals in their favor. And there's no way of knowing just how much different the mall site would look today, but A more business-friendly local administration would have made a huge difference.

As far as blocking the sale of the last piece of land at the inner harbor - that's just immaturity and obfuscation. What's done is done. Unless another developer is going to swing in on a chandelier at this stage of the game, just stay out of the way and give COR a chance to be successful with this project so that the community can benefit when all is said and done.

ok, take it easy. You and I have had this discussion is other threads before. I understand your stance/opinion but don't completely agree with it. No need for me to repeat myself to you.

 

[Newhouser]

Oh come on. Just because COR is corrupt doesn't suddenly make her a saint and a visionary leader. She blocked the stadium deal for the same reasons she blocks everything else: she needs to be the face of every story and wants everyone to kiss her ring.

The obstruction with destiny killed off future phases because she dragged everything through the mud until the markets collapsed and banks decided to stop lending everywhere. I have firsthand knowledge that they were weeks away from securing $400M+ in financing for the 43-story hotel. A friend of mine moved here because he was part of an elevator construction crew that specializes in long spans. Anyhow, this is not to say that Destiny didn't play a part in trying to squeeze every last cent from the city - but shrewd businesses look for the best deals in their favor. And there's no way of knowing just how much different the mall site would look today, but A more business-friendly local administration would have made a huge difference.

As far as blocking the sale of the last piece of land at the inner harbor - that's just immaturity and obfuscation. What's done is done. Unless another developer is going to swing in on a chandelier at this stage of the game, just stay out of the way and give COR a chance to be successful with this project so that the community can benefit when all is said and done.

A 43 story hotel? Have no skin in this game either way but no way the Syracuse market or Destiny business supports that. Miner is eh but her legacy is going to be she was the only person to stand up to the bully Governor, and that is going to hold her in good stead when this book is written.

 

[OttoMets]

ok, take it easy. You and I have had this discussion is other threads before. I understand your stance/opinion but don't completely agree with it. No need for me to repeat myself to you.

Yeah, though it's irritating to keep repeating the same thing, maybe it's worth it.

The city's holding up the transfer because it wants to see the harbor developed. That won't happen if 100% of the buildable land is under control of a company whose executives are under indictment.

This shouldn't need to be spelled out, especially after the COR news became public knowledge. Anyone who doesn't think City Hall has been vindicated here either has an agenda or isn't paying attention.

Anyway, back to the campus framework...

 

[OttoMets]

Oh come on. Just because COR is corrupt doesn't suddenly make her a saint and a visionary leader. She blocked the stadium deal for the same reasons she blocks everything else: she needs to be the face of every story and wants everyone to kiss her ring.

The obstruction with destiny killed off future phases because she dragged everything through the mud until the markets collapsed and banks decided to stop lending everywhere. I have firsthand knowledge that they were weeks away from securing $400M+ in financing for the 43-story hotel. A friend of mine moved here because he was part of an elevator construction crew that specializes in long spans. Anyhow, this is not to say that Destiny didn't play a part in trying to squeeze every last cent from the city - but shrewd businesses look for the best deals in their favor. And there's no way of knowing just how much different the mall site would look today, but A more business-friendly local administration would have made a huge difference.

As far as blocking the sale of the last piece of land at the inner harbor - that's just immaturity and obfuscation. What's done is done. Unless another developer is going to swing in on a chandelier at this stage of the game, just stay out of the way and give COR a chance to be successful with this project so that the community can benefit when all is said and done.

We really should steer our hijack back in the right direction, but I disagree with virtually everything here. The bolded part is especially weird - this is like the Trumper nut who complained that Obama was 'away from the Oval Office' on September 11, 2001.

In this case, the mayor took office on 1 January 2010. The markets collapsed ~16 months before that. Considering the timeline, those factors can't have had the effect you claim they did. (And as someone with direct knowledge of the situation, I know they didn't.)

 

[FrancoPizza]

We really should steer our hijack back in the right direction, but I disagree with virtually everything here. The bolded part is especially weird - this is like the Trumper nut who complained that Obama was 'away from the Oval Office' on September 11, 2001.

In this case, the mayor took office on 1 January 2010. The markets collapsed ~16 months before that. Considering the timeline, those factors can't have had the effect you claim they did. (And as someone with direct knowledge of the situation, I know they didn't.)

before she was mayor she led the obstructionist crusade on the city council.

 

[retro44]

Oh come on. Just because COR is corrupt doesn't suddenly make her a saint and a visionary leader. She blocked the stadium deal for the same reasons she blocks everything else: she needs to be the face of every story and wants everyone to kiss her ring.

The obstruction with destiny killed off future phases because she dragged everything through the mud until the markets collapsed and banks decided to stop lending everywhere. I have firsthand knowledge that they were weeks away from securing $400M+ in financing for the 43-story hotel. A friend of mine moved here because he was part of an elevator construction crew that specializes in long spans. Anyhow, this is not to say that Destiny didn't play a part in trying to squeeze every last cent from the city - but shrewd businesses look for the best deals in their favor. And there's no way of knowing just how much different the mall site would look today, but A more business-friendly local administration would have made a huge difference.

As far as blocking the sale of the last piece of land at the inner harbor - that's just immaturity and obfuscation. What's done is done. Unless another developer is going to swing in on a chandelier at this stage of the game, just stay out of the way and give COR a chance to be successful with this project so that the community can benefit when all is said and done.

The bids have been released with the new Hotel down at Destiny very recently. A union contractor won the plumbing and a non-union outfit won the heating bid and both are local,something COR would never do.
I know plenty of local elevator guys here who have worked on high rises down in NYC so there are guys I know for a "fact" that they can do these jobs. As a matter of fact their clambake was just two weeks ago and I spent some time with them there.
I did not asked how tall this hotel was at my meeting Monday night.

 

[OttoMets]

before she was mayor she led the obstructionist crusade on the city council.

I don't think my facts are going to win this argument anyway, but if you truly think some councilwoman in a strong-mayor city can hold up a billion-dollar development supported by the administration (to the extent that the sitting mayor fired his corporation counsel overnight when she raised concerns), there's probably no persuading you.

 

[retro44]

We really should steer our hijack back in the right direction, but I disagree with virtually everything here. The bolded part is especially weird - this is like the Trumper nut who complained that Obama was 'away from the Oval Office' on September 11, 2001.

In this case, the mayor took office on 1 January 2010. The markets collapsed ~16 months before that. Considering the timeline, those factors can't have had the effect you claim they did. (And as someone with direct knowledge of the situation, I know they didn't.)

Congel I know for a fact had an impossible time in trying to get the banks to loan enough money to build the Bigger Destiny like he wanted right after the financial disaster in '08. DeFrancico was a much bigger obstruction to the Mall than the city and by a lot. His obstruction was personal court losses to Congel...

 

[retro44]

I don't think my facts are going to win this argument anyway, but if you truly think some councilwoman in a strong-mayor city can hold up a billion-dollar development supported by the administration (to the extent that the sitting mayor fired his corporation counsel overnight when she raised concerns), there's probably no persuading you.

Some here will never realize how a local Senator has to sign off on taxpayer monies at the state level before projects of this size needs to work. I am surprised as hell that this much has gotten done.

 

[OttoMets]

Congel I know for a fact had an impossible time in trying to get the banks to loan enough money to build the Bigger Destiny like he wanted. DeFrancico was a much bigger obstruction to the Mall than the city and by a lot. His obstruction was personal court losses to Congel...

Ironically, now he's one of their biggest cheerleaders.

But yeah, ten years ago DeFrancisco was a guy with some actual weight who was opposed to the project.

I think you and I might have discussed this, but the way Congel got financing was ridiculous, people would be amazed. Banks wanted nothing to do with the project.

 

[xc84]

I don't think my facts are going to win this argument anyway, but if you truly think some councilwoman in a strong-mayor city can hold up a billion-dollar development supported by the administration (to the extent that the sitting mayor fired his corporation counsel overnight when she raised concerns), there's probably no persuading you.

When the state is willing to chip in $200M for a project and you don't like some of the details, you support it with the stipulation that some of the details will need to change. She vetoed it off-hand. . Funding like that comes up once in 50 years if you are lucky. Buffalo gets its billion and Miner rejects $200M.

Onondaga County Legislature Chairman Ryan McMahon, a Syracuse Republican, said he feels the opportunity is lost and he's now focused on convincing Cuomo to spend some of that money on other projects in the county, outside of the city of Syracuse.


"It's unfortunate that it happened late," said McMahon, who's frustrated that Miner couldn't agree to the overall project and work out the details later. He found out about the project after she did, he says, and was ready to put the county on the hook for a long-term loan.
Still, McMahon held out a little hope.

 

[OttoMets]

When the state is willing to chip in $200M for a project and you don't like some of the details, you support it with the stipulation that some of the details will need to change. She vetoed it off-hand. . Funding like that comes up once in 50 years if you are lucky. Buffalo gets its billion and Miner rejects $200M.

Onondaga County Legislature Chairman Ryan McMahon, a Syracuse Republican, said he feels the opportunity is lost and he's now focused on convincing Cuomo to spend some of that money on other projects in the county, outside of the city of Syracuse.


"It's unfortunate that it happened late," said McMahon, who's frustrated that Miner couldn't agree to the overall project and work out the details later. He found out about the project after she did, he says, and was ready to put the county on the hook for a long-term loan.
Still, McMahon held out a little hope.

We're talking about the Kennedy Square stadium here?

Not only was it a pie-in-the-sky dream idea (which I think City Hall knew), but that kind of development would have had no positives from the city's point of view. None. And I know they were aware of that. There was no room for "support with stipulations" - even if it was a serious idea (which it wasn't), it was a terrible idea. It had support in three places (four if you count Gross's brief flirtation with the scheme, before SU caught wind and cut him out): the governor (who wanted to piss away money before an upcoming election but had and has limited interest in the nuts and bolts of good development and planning), the county executive (who's every bit as crooked as the governor and driven by many of the same motivations), and COR (whose intentions were evident then, even more so today).

 

[xc84]

We're talking about the Kennedy Square stadium here?

Maybe, maybe not. $200M could have been accepted and then they could have figured out the best spot for it.

 

[JeremyCuse]

We're talking about the Kennedy Square stadium here?

Not only was it a pie-in-the-sky dream idea (which I think City Hall knew), but that kind of development would have had no positives from the city's point of view. None. And I know they were aware of that. There was no room for "support with stipulations" - even if it was a serious idea (which it wasn't), it was a terrible idea. It had support in three places (four if you count Gross's brief flirtation with the scheme, before SU caught wind and cut him out): the governor (who wanted to piss away money before an upcoming election but had and has limited interest in the nuts and bolts of good development and planning), the county executive (who's every bit as crooked as the governor and driven by many of the same motivations), and COR (whose intentions were evident then, even more so today).

SU wanted nothing to do with that Stadium. People don't realize that when Minor turned it down she had the full backing of SU.

 

[OttoMets]

Maybe, maybe not. $200M could have been accepted and then they could have figured out the best spot for it.

If that were the case, that would have been great. Good governance, too.

But that's not what the governor was aiming for, unfortunately.

 

[Fly Rodder]

If she knew it and didn't blow the whistle then she's part of the problem. I doubt she knew about it though. She was just all put out that they didn't ask her permission first.

There's a lot of room between being suspicious and knowing that something has a chance to blow up and knowing enough and having enough proof to convict someone. Politics is about reputation and maintaining relationships/networks. Unless you have enough dirt to truly bury someone there's no reason to open a door for them to you in the future.