FYI (in regards to Dion contract)

[CusefanATL]

Moe Harkless just signed a 4 year $40 million contract (same as Iman Shumpert)

Thats all I got.

 

[Dave85]

Moe Harkless just signed a 4 year $40 million contract (same as Iman Shumpert)

Thats all I got.

Dion needs a new agent.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Dion needs a new agent.

Dion needs to keep his mouth shut, ball his ass off and be a great teammate. Those dollars will come

 

[Brooky03]

Dion needs to keep his mouth shut, ball his ass off and be a great teammate. Those dollars will come

But more importantly, he needs a new agent.

 

[bozophobe]

Too much Moe makes Moe a Moe Moe.

 

[Trueblue25]

Dion's about to have a career season. He's a guy who should realize his voice is louder and better heard on the court than off or in the locker room.

 

[cuseincincy]

Moe Harkless just signed a 4 year $40 million contract (same as Iman Shumpert)

Thats all I got.

But But But...Moe's got a higher TS% and when you account for a higher VORP and DBPM its a no brainer why Moe is getting that much more. Oh, and Dion needs to keep his mouth shut or he'll end up in the D-League.

 

[jncuse]

But more importantly, he needs a new agent.

No, his attitude and court efficiency is more important

 

[Knicks411]

I think Dion's agent probably dropped the ball a little here, but it's kind of hilarious that for some people his contract is in no way of reflection of how he's viewed around the league, which is like 95%, if not more, Dion's doing.

Harkless is a decent player. The Blazers are basically trying to lock up their entire team since they're unlikely to be a hot FA destination

 

[jncuse]

Based on my observations. NBA executives are focusing on 3 things this offseason that do not help Dion, the first being very importatn

1) How does your game help a team stretch the floor (the new NBA style)?: He is a career 33% shooter which is below average for a guard. And while he has the knack to beat his man off the dribble which helps open up spacing, it is negated by his finishing rate at the basket which is amongst the worst in the NBA and his sometimes selfish play.

2) Analytics - Due to his shooting inefficiency which has been amongst the worst in the NBA since he entered the league, you are not going to find any analytics model (Published or In house) that likes his game numerically

3) Attitude- He has had constant issues working well with his teammates and can be a malcontent. Teams are afraid of making Dion a part of the core moving forward


Yrs OKC not making him a UFA immediately cost him some millions. And the agent not understanding the market a few weeks ago and passing on the qualifying offer cost him a few mill as well. But there was still over a dozen teams in the league with over $8m in cap space when he signed and many teams with an MLE of $6 million to offer him.

I would say the bolded reasons is why he was not in the group of younger players getting contracts of $10+ million plus moving forward.

I will say that Harkless came very close to being squeezed out like Dion because he has had attitude issues as well and is inconsistent shooter. But in the end Portland liked him enough, and Portland does not seem to be using "leverage" that well this offseason.

 

[Brooky03]

No, his attitude and court efficiency is more important

In terms of money, his agent is more important. His agent cost him more money than his attitude problems or performance. A player who beat his wife and lost his shooting arm in a car wreck would get a better deal than Dion got.

 

[jncuse]

In terms of money, his agent is more important. His agent cost him more money than his attitude problems or performance. A player who beat his wife and lost his shooting arm in a car wreck would get a better deal than Dion got.

Are you talking about the qualifying offer of 6-7 million, or a long term deal of $10+ mllion annually?

You could blame the agent for not having him accept thje qualifying offer while it was on the table. That would hav netted him 3 to 4 million more. That has some merit. At the same time around 8 teams still have cap space of more or similar to the QO and the MLE tha many teams hold is about the same as the QO. The fact that no attractive offers came from any of those parties similar to the QO once he became a UFA, seems to be as much on Dion in my view.

If you are looking at the lack of a long term deal of $10M+ per season, how can that be on the agent? That is on Dion. One could argue he would have got this if OKC had relieved him earlier, but I don't think it hurt him to that extent.

 

[CusefanATL]

Based on my observations. NBA executives are focusing on 3 things this offseason that do not help Dion, the first being very importatn

1) How does your game help a team stretch the floor (the new NBA style)?: He is a career 33% shooter which is below average for a guard. And while he has the knack to beat his man off the dribble which helps open up spacing, it is negated by his finishing rate at the basket which is amongst the worst in the NBA and his sometimes selfish play.

2) Analytics - Due to his shooting inefficiency which has been amongst the worst in the NBA since he entered the league, you are not going to find any analytics model (Published or In house) that likes his game numerically

3) Attitude- He has had constant issues working well with his teammates and can be a malcontent. Teams are afraid of making Dion a part of the core moving forward


Yrs OKC not making him a UFA immediately cost him some millions. And the agent not understanding the market a few weeks ago and passing on the qualifying offer cost him a few mill as well. But there was still over a dozen teams in the league with over $8m in cap space when he signed and many teams with an MLE of $6 million to offer him.

I would say the bolded reasons is why he was not in the group of younger players getting contracts of $10+ million plus moving forward.

I will say that Harkless came very close to being squeezed out like Dion because he has had attitude issues as well and is inconsistent shooter. But in the end Portland liked him enough, and Portland does not seem to be using "leverage" that well this offseason.

dude this is the worst player deal in NBA history - comparative to market value with cap in mind and performance as of time of signing. So lebron only making $30 mil when he is worth $80 mil is not included, neither are rookie deals nor a random player who blows up mid contract

IIRC, we dont know who is in NBA drug program right? I gotta think he is in it and dangerously close to a significant suspension. (that is only a GUESS to somehow justify this crazy deal)

Harkeless and shumpert got 4 year $40 mil. The guy from miami got 4 yr $50 mil. Waiters' BASEMENT was 4 yr $40 mil. Even if teams only wanted to give him 1 year deal for whateve reason - the BASEMENT is 1 yr $12 mil. Those are super low taking into account bad attitude and low shooting % - he 'deserves' higher.

 

[two3zone]

dude this is the worst player deal in NBA history - comparative to market value with cap in mind and performance as of time of signing. So lebron only making $30 mil when he is worth $80 mil is not included, neither are rookie deals nor a random player who blows up mid contract

IIRC, we dont know who is in NBA drug program right? I gotta think he is in it and dangerously close to a significant suspension. (that is only a GUESS to somehow justify this crazy deal)

Harkeless and shumpert got 4 year $40 mil. The guy from miami got 4 yr $50 mil. Waiters' BASEMENT was 4 yr $40 mil. Even if teams only wanted to give him 1 year deal for whateve reason - the BASEMENT is 1 yr $12 mil. Those are super low taking into account bad attitude and low shooting % - he 'deserves' higher.

Wes Johnson got a bigger contract than Dion, that is insane to me based on just looking at the two players side by side. Attitude played a huge part in this and I hope Dion reflected over this and realize he probably cost himself about 34 million dollars over 4 years.

On the other hand, he is far far far far far below market value, his agent should have been able to talk to a front office and sell them on Dion and get that dollar value up. Dion himself could have walked into a front office and probably could have gotten more money, not sure what his agent was doing.

I'm not going to say it's a sad situation for him because he's getting paid millions to play a game, but it is sad because this is a contract that could have set him and his family up for the rest of his life and if he isn't able to capitalize after this contract it was a huge blown opportunity.

 

[Ghost]

Wes Johnson got a bigger contract than Dion, that is insane to me based on just looking at the two players side by side. Attitude played a huge part in this and I hope Dion reflected over this and realize he probably cost himself about 34 million dollars over 4 years.

On the other hand, he is far far far far far below market value, his agent should have been able to talk to a front office and sell them on Dion and get that dollar value up. Dion himself could have walked into a front office and probably could have gotten more money, not sure what his agent was doing.

I'm not going to say it's a sad situation for him because he's getting paid millions to play a game, but it is sad because this is a contract that could have set him and his family up for the rest of his life and if he isn't able to capitalize after this contract it was a huge blown opportunity.

lol...quite true. The agent should really sacrifice his cut on on this one. If Dion walked into the office of every team with even minor interest in him this summer and just said, "Okay, boys, low ball me on an offer! I mean, really go low, like I have a dead prostitute in the trunk of my car right now kind of low..." He probably still walks away with that deal at worst.

 

[two3zone]

lol...quite true. The agent should really sacrifice his cut on on this one. If Dion walked into the office of every team with even minor interest in him this summer and just said, "Okay, boys, low ball me on an offer! I mean, really go low, like I have a dead prostitute in the trunk of my car right now kind of low..." He probably still walks away with that deal at worst.

Sad part is I don't know how it could have gone any lower.

 

[CusefanATL]

lol...quite true. The agent should really sacrifice his cut on on this one. If Dion walked into the office of every team with even minor interest in him this summer and just said, "Okay, boys, low ball me on an offer! I mean, really go low, like I have a dead prostitute in the trunk of my car right now kind of low..." He probably still walks away with that deal at worst.

no... it would have been higher.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Wes Johnson got a bigger contract than Dion, that is insane to me based on just looking at the two players side by side. Attitude played a huge part in this and I hope Dion reflected over this and realize he probably cost himself about 34 million dollars over 4 years.

On the other hand, he is far far far far far below market value, his agent should have been able to talk to a front office and sell them on Dion and get that dollar value up. Dion himself could have walked into a front office and probably could have gotten more money, not sure what his agent was doing.

I'm not going to say it's a sad situation for him because he's getting paid millions to play a game, but it is sad because this is a contract that could have set him and his family up for the rest of his life and if he isn't able to capitalize after this contract it was a huge blown opportunity.

True. Still though what does the guy have to offer especially off the ball? His movement stinks off the ball. Jncuse illustrated it well above. He can't really shoot and if a team is weighing analytics heavily then it is a fail there in every possible category. Then there is the attitude/pouting which is common knowledge. When he can create and be a playmaker then he is more dangerous. He is no SG, though.

 

[two3zone]

True. Still though what does the guy have to offer especially off the ball? His movement stinks off the ball. Jncuse illustrated it well above. He can't really shoot and if a team is weighing analytics heavily then it is a fail there in every possible category. Then there is the attitude/pouting which is common knowledge. When he can create and be a playmaker then he is more dangerous. He is no SG, though.

What Dion has going for him is the capability of being a great player. He hasn't proven anything other than what you posted but we've seen what he's capable of, any salesman "agent" should be able to go into a front office and sell them on his capabilities and his willingness to change and be the player he can be instead of the player he's been.

Not saying it would get a huge bump in money, but it's like his agent didn't even try.

 

[Knicks411]

What Dion has going for him is the capability of being a great player. He hasn't proven anything other than what you posted but we've seen what he's capable of, any salesman "agent" should be able to go into a front office and sell them on his capabilities and his willingness to change and be the player he can be instead of the player he's been.

Not saying it would get a huge bump in money, but it's like his agent didn't even try.

He's been in the league 4 years, there's little to no evidence he has the capability of being a great player.

 

[two3zone]

He's been in the league 4 years, there's little to no evidence he has the capability of being a great player.

I think with his skill set he is capable.

 

[Knicks411]

I think with his skill set he is capable.

I guess I just don't see the skillset. What does he do at an elite level? It's the NBA; everyone is really good. 4 years in and his best true shooting is 50.8%.

 

[jr4750]

I guess I just don't see the skillset. What does he do at an elite level? It's the NBA; everyone is really good. 4 years in and his best true shooting is 50.8%.

woah, he's a world class debbie downer. Seriously though, he has the worst body language on a player I have ever seen. Perhaps the worst in the league. He very much needs to get rid of that.

 

[chugg21]

I think with his skill set he is capable.

He has 0 shot of ever being a "great" player. His ceiling at this point is either average nba 2g if he fixes his shot or a poor mans jamal crawford as a volume scorer of the bench. He's actually been below replacement level for the last 2 seasons.

 

[CusefanATL]

I guess I just don't see the skillset. What does he do at an elite level? It's the NBA; everyone is really good. 4 years in and his best true shooting is 50.8%.

Iman Shumpert, Moe Harkless, and teh guy from Miami are all average (at the very best) NBA players who signed 4 yr $40+ million dollar deals.

1 yr 2.9 mil is for a borderline NBA player or an aging vet chasing a championship. Not a 24 yr old who is undeniably better on the court than the 3 players I just mentioned.