Geno Thorpe - COMMITTED TO SYRACUSE

[iommi]

So if someone asks JB: sit White because he isnt too coachable , undo MMs redshirt and put MM in Whites place. You think for one minute JB makes that move? Of course not,not in any parallel universe

No, I never said that. And JB never said AW wasn't coachable. JB loved having him on the team. He just wasn't a very good defender. I think he was frustrated with Gillon picking up some bad habits, especially defensively, though he also recognized his value as well. I only responded to your second post not your first. I agreed with your first post, for the most part.

 

[Jack Hall]

Generally, the older the player the more they have to "unlearn" rotations they may have learned playing other zones. The rotations in JB's 2-3, especially for the forwards, are very demanding and somewhat unique to his system.

The players, especially the Fs, need to be reactionary because they are required to cover so much ground - it's pretty incredible how much ground they have to cover. Very few zones, if any, ever require the ball side forward to rotate out past the 3 point line above the foul line extended, and then slide down to cover the opposite side low blocks on a ball reversal. This is part of why we recruit length.

Agreed the team struggled witha lot of different rotations last season. The one that drove me the most crazy was when our C extended out to block a shot or cover the high post ,at that pt one of the forwards needs to rotate toward the basket to help rebound or cover a baseline cutter (imo that rotation was one of the biggest reasons we made the FF in 2013). But unfortunately imo all of our forwards struggled with that rotation this yr, not just White

 

[jordville]

Here is a quote Geno gave Pittsburgh Sports Now...
“There isn’t a timeline really and I’m in between Pitt and Syracuse right now. I’m just taking everything day by day.”

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Here is a quote Geno gave Pittsburgh Sports Now...
“There isn’t a timeline really and I’m in between Pitt and Syracuse right now. I’m just taking everything day by day.”

Translation: He's hoping that SU offers him when he visits.

 

[007]

Agreed the team struggled witha lot of different rotations last season. The one that drove me the most crazy was when our C extended out to block a shot or cover the high post ,at that pt one of the forwards needs to rotate toward the basket to help rebound or cover a baseline cutter (imo that rotation was one of the biggest reasons we made the FF in 2013). But unfortunately imo all of our forwards struggled with that rotation this yr, not just White

It's a lot more complex than that. All those rotations are dependent on the positions of the other 4 offensive players when the ball enters the high post. All 5 players on D need to read, react, adjust, and rotate on all ball movement (pass or dribble penetration) relative to the positioning of the O. And even those rotations can be adjusted (and often are) depending on whether the D is trying to take some area of the floor and/or player away from the offense. The rotation is never to get to rebounding position unless and until there is a shot attempt.

 

[djorange1989]

Translation: He's hoping that SU offers him when he visits.

Yes indeed.

 

[JrodCuse]

This may be a stupid question, but are the coaches allowed to see the kid shoot or do anything basketball related during an official visit?

 

[jordoo]

This may be a stupid question, but are the coaches allowed to see the kid shoot or do anything basketball related during an official visit?

Yes.

 

[rrlbees]

Yes.

Actually I think the answer is no. They get around it somewhat because the NCAA does allow a recruit to play pick up with current players as long as there are no coaches around. But we know the players "report back" to the coach.

 

[jordoo]

Actually I think the answer is no. They get around it somewhat because the NCAA does allow a recruit to play pick up with current players as long as there are no coaches around. But we know the players "report back" to the coach.

I thought the coaches could view the pick-up ball but couldn't coach/interfere or whatever. I could be wrong on this point though.

 

[Grbac]

I thought the coaches could view the pick-up ball but couldn't coach/interfere or whatever. I could be wrong on this point though.

I think the coaches can play a pickup game with the recruit, but have to be blindfolded.

 

[jordoo]

I think the coaches can play a pickup game with the recruit, but have to be blindfolded.

Well that sums up the silliness of the NCAA and all its rules. You can have a kid in to visit about becoming part of a sports team and getting a scholarship but are limited when it comes to that kid doing activities pertaining to that sport. It makes so much sense.

 

[Delmar]

I think the coaches can play a pickup game with the recruit, but have to be blindfolded.

According to NCAA regulations, coaches can best implement institutional control when they are blind-folded.

 

[orangefog]

Well that sums up the silliness of the NCAA and all its rules. You can have a kid in to visit about becoming part of a sports team and getting a scholarship but are limited when it comes to that kid doing activities pertaining to that sport. It makes so much sense.

Normally I would say that there has to be a good reason for their rules, but then I remember that we are talking about the NCAA. So, it would be interesting to hear how they came up with these restrictions.

 

[Ryand877]

Well that sums up the silliness of the NCAA and all its rules. You can have a kid in to visit about becoming part of a sports team and getting a scholarship but are limited when it comes to that kid doing activities pertaining to that sport. It makes so much sense.

Totally agree. I can see not allowing the coach to critique or coach the visiting player, but to not allow them watch is plain silly.

 

[orangefog]

Totally agree. I can see not allowing the coach to critique or coach the visiting player, but to not allow them watch is plain silly.

They could always tell a kid that they are running late for dinner, they will have to run to the restaurant. And, oh yeah, make sure you throw away that can in that garbage can that's about 20' away.

 

[JackBauer44]

Actually I think the answer is no. They get around it somewhat because the NCAA does allow a recruit to play pick up with current players as long as there are no coaches around. But we know the players "report back" to the coach.

The answer is no. Coaches can't be in the gym while recruits who are visiting play ball. It's the same with me in tennis. I can't be on court with a tennis player is visiting campus. However, rules do not state I can't stand outside the fence... You see what I am getting at

 

[jordoo]

The answer is no. Coaches can't be in the gym while recruits who are visiting play ball. It's the same with me in tennis. I can't be on court with a tennis player is visiting campus. However, rules do not state I can't stand outside the fence... You see what I am getting at

Lots of windows to look at the court through at the Melo center.

 

[721Comstock]

Lots of windows to look at the court through at the Melo center.

And TONS of video cameras. We saw their video center when we did a tour before the GaTech game, and it's pretty impressive.
JB could be on the golf course, and the video guy could send him a highlight clip just minutes after the open run ended.

 

[GooseMutt]

Lots of windows to look at the court through at the Melo center.

Shhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Jasoncuse]

I will say this again, as it seems that I must not have made it clear in the post both of you quoted, or in a post I made following that one. I am relaying information that JB gave in an interview. Not direct quotes, but the meaning was clear. JB clearly felt that it is very difficult to integrate grad transfers into the team in the short space of time that the situation allows. It is highly likely that this difficulty played a significant part in the team not equaling up to the sum of its parts for a large portion of last year. JB clearly views grad transfers as a risk that he feels are not generally worth taking, unless it is a very special circumstance.

So, you may not like or agree with this assessment, but that is JB's view, and obviously, his view counts way more than any of ours do. It is 100% certain that he knows much more about the issues in the team last year than any of us, so it is also certain that he has a much better idea of how hard it is to get grad transfers to learn & embrace the system, then to reach their maximum capabilities with the system.

My only speculation within the post, was on my viewpoint of Thorpe. I feel fairly confident that JB does not see Thorpe as a "very special circumstance". Feel free to disagree with my viewpoint on Thorpe, but he is not "very special circumstance" worthy, IMO.

As for the comment on the zone, You may feel that it is easy to learn to play it the way JB wants it played, but there is ample evidence that supports that it is a rare player who fully masters its nuances in one year, much less one summer. Even some of the better defenders SU has had, took several years to be effective in the system.

I understand that that is JB's point of view on the topic; I just think it's a bit misguided and seems like the grad transfers were a scapegoat.

We've had 2 grad transfers, 1 who showed up the week of classes and the other who was a 5'11" poor fit for our defense. Not wanting to go the grad route again because of those two is misguided and places blame in the exact wrong places. White should never have seen any minutes up top and wasn't a good fit for the wing anyhow due to his lesser agility. Gillon was a poor fit for the zone all-around. Thorpe seems like a much better traditional fit for our zone.

These are still college kids, kids that can be coached up. I just don't buy the excuse that it's harder to get grads to understand the zone that it is for some 18 year old. The zone concepts and rotations that we have are going to be tough for any new kid to pick up right away, but having an experienced college player adds value in other areas too. Maybe it's harder to get them to buy in since they'll be here for a year, but it shouldn't be any more difficult to learn and pick up nuances than it should be for a frosh.

And JB is keeping Howard on the roster, a kid that supposedly torpedoed some recruitments and had attitude issues within the season. I think that's a lot harder on a team than a grad transfer or freshman trying to learn the zone on the fly.

The bigger point is we need the guard depth and talent. We wouldn't be talking about Thorpe if we had more than 3 guards available to play and didn't have to rely on Frank Howard so much at this point. We have a pretty critical need, IMO, and Thorpe is probably the best available option. He would add value in areas we are deficient (guard depth, shooting, scoring, ball handling, etc). I don't see the downside, unless you think Howard can't handle having another option here. If Howard is better than Thorpe, great. If he's not, then we'd have a starting caliber guard to come in to play alongside Battle and can go into the season with more flexibility and options. What happens if Howard is terrible again and Washington isn't quite capable of playing heavy minutes? Why limit yourself so much when there are options available, especially an option that will have no impact on the 2018 recruiting class??

If the option is to pass on a grad transfer because JB is worried about how that player will be integrated and we'll only have 3 guards for the season vs bringing in a guy like Thorpe who may need some seasoning, but will provide impact, scoring and depth...give me Thorpe every day of the week.

 

[Grbac]

Are student-athletes allowed to tryout or practice with the team?

As an NCAA rule, Division I and Division III schools do not allow tryouts. On an official or unofficial visit, you may participate in workouts that are not organized or observed by the coaching staff. Typically, the workout will be lead by the team’s captains and they must not be designed to test your athletic ability. Division II and NAIA schools are allowed to conduct one tryout, in the off-season of your sport, during your senior year.

 

[rrlbees]

Are student-athletes allowed to tryout or practice with the team?

As an NCAA rule, Division I and Division III schools do not allow tryouts. On an official or unofficial visit, you may participate in workouts that are not organized or observed by the coaching staff. Typically, the workout will be lead by the team’s captains and they must not be designed to test your athletic ability. Division II and NAIA schools are allowed to conduct one tryout, in the off-season of your sport, during your senior year.

 

[kmart128]

What do you guys think?

PG: Thorpe / Howard
SG: Battle / Washington
SF: Dolezaj / Brissett
PF: Moyer / Sidibe
C: Thompson / Chukwu

 

[jordoo]

What do you guys think?

PG: Thorpe / Howard
SG: Battle / Washington
SF: Dolezaj / Brissett
PF: Moyer / Sidibe
C: Thompson / Chukwu

I think if we decide to offer Thorpe and get him and Dolezaj on campus over the summer that it will take JB much less time to sort out the rotation this season than it did last season. Last season we started with AW3 at the 2 with Coleman and Roberson starting at the 4 & 5. That was never going to work. We know from experience that its rare to see more than 8 guys play regularly. So you can expect a guard and a big to get squeezed out of the regular rotation after the cupcake portion of the season. I do think that your starters are likely correct (counting on guys we don't have yet) and that Brissett is that sparkplug scorer off the bench.