Georgetown Thoughts

[manleyzoo]

You didn't ask how many times the nation thought about LMU, you asked how many times I thought about them since back in the day.

Oklahoma is not an accurate case in point. Much much much more money, a state school vs. a private school, better facilities, much bigger recruiting base, better players. Our ability to recruit Babers' quality players is based largely on him not the school. We may do everything we can to keep his scheme should he depart but doing it is quite another matter with our built-in disadvantages.

As I said, I'm well aware of how well LMU does or doesn't do, I follow their conference both for hoop and baseball. It's a two-star recruiting area, sometimes a three or so shows up. How many really good teams from the LA area in P5 have there been in the past few years? Now step down a rung and you get a much clearer pic of what level of talent is and is not available to them. LMU trying to recruit to Westhead's style neglects the fact that the game has changed a lot since those days. As another poster said, teams get back on defense now and didn't in those days. Trying to play his brand of run and gun with lower level players would be trying to be different for different's sake not because it could work. Westhead had great players -- both Gathers and Kimble transferred in from USC. LMU doesn't and wouldn't. In this regard, with all due respect, you know not of what you speak.

 

[SWC75]

You didn't ask how many times the nation thought about LMU, you asked how many times I thought about them since back in the day.

Oklahoma is not an accurate case in point. Much much much more money, a state school vs. a private school, better facilities, much bigger recruiting base, better players. Our ability to recruit Babers' quality players is based largely on him not the school. We may do everything we can to keep his scheme should he depart but doing it is quite another matter with our built-in disadvantages.

As I said, I'm well aware of how well LMU does or doesn't do, I follow their conference both for hoop and baseball. It's a two-star recruiting area, sometimes a three or so shows up. How many really good teams from the LA area in P5 have there been in the past few years? Now step down a rung and you get a much clearer pic of what level of talent is and is not available to them. LMU trying to recruit to Westhead's style neglects the fact that the game has changed a lot since those days. As another poster said, teams get back on defense now and didn't in those days. Trying to play his brand of run and gun with lower level players would be trying to be different for different's sake not because it could work. Westhead had great players -- both Gathers and Kimble transferred in from USC. LMU doesn't and wouldn't. In this regard, with all due respect, you know not of what you speak.

When I asked when you last thought about LM, i didn't realize you lived in the area. the question was really about national relevance. At the time people were lauding Westhead's style of play and how it allowed him to succeed even if he couldn't recruit with the big boys. Gathers and Kimble were good but Kimble was a reserve in the NBA for three years and LM continued to play uptempo under Jay Hillock for two years after gathers died with some success. then they got John Olive who slowed them down and went 7-20. Their highest scoring average since has been 75.8 in 2009-2010. That team went 18-16. In 1999-00 they averaged 62.3 a game and went 2-26. A decision was clearly made to 'normalize' the program with disastrous results.

Regarding the Oklahoma comparison, there are several examples of football mid-majors retaining their "personality" through coaching changes because what they were doing was working: Boise State, Brigham Young, Texas Tech, Houston, etc. You don't have to be Oklahoma to do that. And it would be easier in basketball where there are only 5 starters and the talent is spread out much more evenly than in football. Dino has said that he can overcome recruiting disadvantages with his style of play. That will still be the challenge if he leaves.

 

[manleyzoo]

When I asked when you last thought about LM, i didn't realize you lived in the area. the question was really about national relevance. At the time people were lauding Westhead's style of play and how it allowed him to succeed even if he couldn't recruit with the big boys. Gathers and Kimble were good but Kimble was a reserve in the NBA for three years and LM continued to play uptempo under Jay Hillock for two years after gathers died with some success. then they got John Olive who slowed them down and went 7-20. Their highest scoring average since has been 75.8 in 2009-2010. That team went 18-16. In 1999-00 they averaged 62.3 a game and went 2-26. A decision was clearly made to 'normalize' the program with disastrous results.

Regarding the Oklahoma comparison, there are several examples of football mid-majors retaining their "personality" through coaching changes because what they were doing was working: Boise State, Brigham Young, Texas Tech, Houston, etc. You don't have to be Oklahoma to do that. And it would be easier in basketball where there are only 5 starters and the talent is spread out much more evenly than in football. Dino has said that he can overcome recruiting disadvantages with his style of play. That will still be the challenge if he leaves.

Fair enough, and well said with an exception. I don't think any decision was made to normalize LMU's program. It was more a matter of run and gun style coaches being difficult to find. There's some at D3 but not too many other places. For me there's an interesting side note here. I have a noticeable distaste for the sameness in college basketball. To me, with few exceptions, teams play the same way, the sets are the same, the coaches insist the players do what they want, when and how they want it done. No lie, I really loved the way LMU played. Westhead wanted a shot up within 7 seconds. It was different and fun. No school or coach would chance that these days. As I've posted many times, I'd rather see us lose 107-105 than win 53-50.

College baseball is the same -- pitching coaches call every pitch in every situation. Hitting coaches give take signs one way or the other on nearly every pitch. It's not the game, it's for robots.